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Varnishing timber spars


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I have been reading through Underhill's Masting and Rigging; on page 70, he makes the following comment:

 

"Another point, models of timber spars should never be varnished, but very lightly french polished, just enough to give them the appearance of having been oiled."

 

I have been under the impression that most everything was varnished on the model ship. Can anyone comment on this please??

Larry
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Hi Larry, this is an interesting question. I think a lot of the time finish is a personal choice. But having said that

I suggest that that a lot of what we now think about finish has probably been influenced by what models

we have seen and what various authors may have written. I often feel Underhill's comments are rather based

on the time he wrote and the experience he had had at that time.

 

Certainly reading Nepean Longridge:  Anatomy of Nelsons ships, shows what he felt about varnish and was an

adherent of beeswax. To obtain a  (what I consider) good finish on spars I do use a form of French polishing called

(in the UK) dry shining. This is rather a basic 'wizz' over the wood, feeding it with shellac until there is a dull shine.

In the past it was used for the inner linings of draws and helped prevent dust. On the other hand looking at some

of the models in our museums they are often spoilt by over application of varnish. In Longridge's book he describes

finishing the spares (which were black) with dye and then polish.

 

I hope I have read your query correctly, but to sum up I feel finish is very personal and maybe Underhill may well have used

other finishes if he had the opportunity to see some of the builds in MSW.

 

Rather a personal view, cheers, Nick.

Current Build: M.S. Batory, Polish Transatlantic Liner  - Card.

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This is a very interesting question and I agree with Nick.  I've wondered why, if spars were black, they would necessarily be shiny.  On the Roter Lowe I did I just painted them flat black and I think they look great.  On all my other builds I oiled them until I realised that oil is a dust magnet.  Now I just stain and varnish them and go for appearance rather than accuracy.

Tom

 

 

Current: Sergal Sovereign of the Seas

Previous builds:  AL Swift, AL King of the Mississippi, Mamoli Roter Lowe, Amati Chinese Junk, Caesar, Mamoli USS Constitution, Mantua HMS Victory, Panart San Felipe, Mantua Sergal Soleil Royal

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My biggest concern was that I might be doing something wrong by varnishing the spars; from a woodworking stand point. I guess to each his own and I can varnish without breaking some obscure reason (like the spar warping)......

About the french polishing....maybe that should have been a question. I have no idea what it is....

Thanks too all.

Larry
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Touch wood (no pun intended) I've never had a problem with spar warping and I've used lots of different finishes.  The biggest concerns in the warping area I think are (1) the poor quality of dowel material that is provided in some kits as mast and spar stock and (2) be careful that the rigging puts equal pressure on the spars so you don't have uneven pull which I guess could cause warping over time.

Tom

 

 

Current: Sergal Sovereign of the Seas

Previous builds:  AL Swift, AL King of the Mississippi, Mamoli Roter Lowe, Amati Chinese Junk, Caesar, Mamoli USS Constitution, Mantua HMS Victory, Panart San Felipe, Mantua Sergal Soleil Royal

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French polishing is a wood finishing technique that results in a very high gloss surface, with a deep colour and chatoyancy. French polishing consists of applying many thin coats of shellac dissolved in alcohol using a rubbing pad lubricated with oil. The rubbing pad is made of absorbent cotton or wool cloth wadding inside a square piece of fabric (usually soft cotton cloth) and is commonly referred to as a fad,[1] also called a rubber,[2] tampon,[2] or muñeca, Spanish for "rag doll".[3]

"French polish" is a process, not a material. The main material is shellac, although there are several other shellac-based finishes, not all of which class as French polishing.

The finish is considered by many to be a beautiful way to finish highly figured wood, but it is also recognised to be fragile. It is softer than modern varnishes and lacquers and is particularly sensitive to spills of water or alcohol, which often produce white cloudy marks. However, it is also simpler to repair than a damaged varnish finish, as patch repairs to French polish may be easily blended into an existing finish.

Tom

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French polishing is a wood finishing technique that results in a very high gloss surface, with a deep colour and chatoyancy. French polishing consists of applying many thin coats of shellac dissolved in alcohol using a rubbing pad lubricated with oil. The rubbing pad is made of absorbent cotton or wool cloth wadding inside a square piece of fabric (usually soft cotton cloth) and is commonly referred to as a fad,[1] also called a rubber,[2] tampon,[2] or muñeca, Spanish for "rag doll".[3]

"French polish" is a process, not a material. The main material is shellac, although there are several other shellac-based finishes, not all of which class as French polishing.

The finish is considered by many to be a beautiful way to finish highly figured wood, but it is also recognised to be fragile. It is softer than modern varnishes and lacquers and is particularly sensitive to spills of water or alcohol, which often produce white cloudy marks. However, it is also simpler to repair than a damaged varnish finish, as patch repairs to French polish may be easily blended into an existing finish.

Tom

Right, so polyurethane it is. :P

Previous build(mostly) - 18th Century Longboat


 


Current build - Bounty Launch


 


Next build - San Francisco by AL


Future build - Red Dragon


Future build - Mayflower from Model Expo

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As twintrow pointed out, 'French Polish' is a process, not a material. I think Underhill meant to wipe-on thin layers of diluted varnish (shellac-based as it were), rather than brushing-on a thick coat of 'boat varnish', that may contain a lot of additives to make it viscuous and to fill it.

 

Personally, I use only woodfiller, which essentially is a slightly filled nitro-cellulose based lacquer. It helps to fill the pores, deepens the colour and sands well (which is its main purpose). However, I am not sanding it, but use different grades of steel-wool to rub it down, finishing off with a 0000 grade. This results in a satin finish that appears to sit 'in' the wood, rather than 'on top' of it.

 

Parts too small to rub down with steel-wool I may turn with pumice between my fingers until they appear matt; I then polish them with a felt-, cotton- or chamois-wheel in the hand-held drill to a satin finish. Again, you rather polish the wood, than to slab-on a glossy layer.

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

M-et-M-72.jpg  Banner-AKHS-72.jpg  Banner-AAMM-72.jpg  ImagoOrbis-72.jpg
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Hi All,

 

I'm new to the site and a relative neophyte to ship building, but I have 30 years experience with fine wood working.

 

I totally agree with the comments regarding oils. There are many types and numerous variables regarding hardness and drying/curing times. Anything less than a perfect application could leave a sticky mess even after things appear to be completely dry.

 

There are two basic and easy solutions. The first is to brush on a Minwax or other stain of your choice and quickly wipe off. The darkness you want can be achieved though multiple coats. Once the stain is dry, polish with Minwax Regular Finishing Wax. Thin coats of the wax dry quickly and hard. Any gloss can easily be buffed down with 00 steel wool. The other choice is to skip the staining and go with Briwax. It's available in 10 colors and depth of color can be achieved through multiple coats. Like the Mixwax it can be buffed to the desired gloss and makes a hard somewhat dust proof finish. Both are available in 1lb tins on the Internet and I think run about $15. 1lb is enough to last several lifetimes of ship finishing, but can earn you MANY wife dollars if you polish a piece of furniture or two (exchange rate around here is 1 Wife dollar = about $100 real dollars).

 

I hope this helps,

Perls

 

PS. I've painted over the stain with Floquil before waxing and haven't had any problems. S.

Edited by Perls
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PPS.....

 

I was at Mystic Seaport a few weeks ago for the music festival and spent some time with one of the resident ship wrights. He was re-oiling a spar with an "authentic" finish made from 1/3 boiled linseed oil, 1/3 turpentine, and 1/3 pine tar. Talk about a sticky mess, he said it never quite hardened but got absorbed or wore off. I'm sticking with finishing waxes.

 

Perls

Edited by Perls
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I use "Swedish Tar" some time know as "Hoof oil" although very sticky to start I use very little and apply it very thinly It also has a wonderful smell like hemp rope it drys hard after a few days and can be thinned with white sprite The Smell gives my models that old boat aroma !!!

Andy

Current Build

HM Granado CC

Past builds

 HMS Chatham CC, HM Convulsion CC,  Duke William German Kit, Fair American LSS, The Wright Flyer MS

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