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HMS Victory by dafi - Heller - PLASTIC - To Victory and beyond ...

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Thank you Sirs for comments and likes!


After the model makers meeting in march I originally wanted to tidy up the anchor handling presentation, in the meantime stumbled over the top-tackle scutles, so it is time to link the both. For this I need the pendants from the tops, so time to look for that ...

So first step to worm, smart and serve the rope ...
... bound the loop, threw it over the mast top ...
... and let ot a big scream as the binding was on the half round chock and not underneath ...
So a longer loop was done and a picture taken for that nobody can say they did not see it properly.
And really this time it fits underneath the chock :-).
Making the cringles is a mostely easy task and already documented some time ago ...
... oup there the 1 mm tube from the old tests, now the slight thicker one of 1,3 mm :-)
But then turning the cringles in, thaaaaat is something different ...
Left the first trial, right the newer one, I think some more 2716 pieces and the result will be fine
And the pendants in place :-) :-)

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But he still needs the upper gundeck before the masts can be stepped......

And considering he is only into his fourth (?) year for the lower gundeck, I 'm not sure whether we normal mortals will see this beautiful ship fully rigged.....



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A tad longer my dear Jan, a tad longer :-)


That is how the gun deck looked in 2010!




As my dear wife says: Did not change too much, did it?!?



Edited by dafi

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Thank you Mark, Frank, Jan, Wacko, druxey and Pop, very appreciated!

and miracles do happen: Univers gave me a nice X-Mess-presi - some tinkering time :-) 
A short look back:
Some time I discovered on the William Turner drawings from late 1805 some details on the poop deck rails. After some fruitful discussions it proved to be most likely some fair lead rollers that were used for hauling some rope from the poop deck rigging, due to the limited space there and the restricted access. So plenty of men could pull the strings from the quarter deck, with more ease. 
Also the helm indicator was rediscovered on the drawing and also to be seen on the contemporary model from 1765. Reason enough not to omit this one any longer ;-)
So then off it went :-)
First the still missing most upfront deck beam still had to be placed. The white sheet served for positioning.
Then some trials to get the proportions of the clamps and rollers correct..
Here in comparison to the Heller Part, that is based upon todays state of the Vic in P.
Then slowly getting in touch with the base part of the rail.
Clamp and rollers are composed out of several small parts to give a defined form.
And then on location. The gaps on the sides will disappear on the final fixing, as the material easily bends in the shape of the curve of the deck.
Splashed some paint ...
... and placed in place.
Edited by dafi

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Thank you Nicolas.

I did not come as far as I wanted this year but some minor things were done. Finally I found the time to document the set of my etch and to not make it too boring I made a test shot in two versions: Once the classical "Portsmouth Condition", build already more than a fantastillion times (or at least started) and afterwards a version, that comes nearer to my personal best educated guess of the "real Trafalgar Condition". 
But anyway, this is only a current score, as more input is always on the way in ...
First the "classical" Victory, Portsmouth Condition.
First the more sophisticated version with thinned needle heads and broadened channel whales ...
... and the more simple to build version with normal needle heads.
The fore channels of the kit are to narrow and should be enlarged for the deadeyes not to collide with the hammock cranes.

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Trafalgar Condition?
But it will stay thrilling as already since I build this, evidence freshly says that the small gangways to the poop were leveled to the poop deck and therefor the hammock cranes went more forward :-)
But all in all, I do believe, one can make something nice out off this old kit :-)



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Nicely done, this mirrors what Turner witnessed firsthand.

There is one more Turner sketch of note 'The Victory: From Poop to Quaterdeck, this shows that the Forecastle at the Beakhead Bulkhead was also built up, please see image below, you can see the bulkhead gunport on the right quite clearly.. Sorry to spring this when you have gone to such trouble but I know you are striving for the most accurate interpretation.


Although I've reviewed the sketches previously on this forum, I missed this one, but picked it up in the Trafalgar Chronicle: Number 26 published in November this year. One of the articles by John Conover reviews the Turner Sketches and picks up on the Beakhead Bulkhead barricade, it also draws strong parallels between the 1803 model in the National Maritime Museum (model SLR0513), including a potential different configuration of the stem works (Victory as is now being a 20th Century re-interpretation). It postulates that the 1803 model was a projected re-fit which was never fully completed, but has strong correlations to the Turner sketches.


I believe that John Conover may have published a similar article on the full NRG forum, perhaps someone who has access could check.


Well worth a read.



Edited by Morgan

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Thank you for your most valuable input Gary. I know both the drawing and John´s immensely interesting analysis.


For my personal taste I do not jump yet for the full and solid barricade versus the rail - either as it is seen today or as seen on SLR0513. The drawings are not that clear to me and too, this was a heavily repaired area after the battle. If the barricade was there, I wished too to know how all the belaying points are handled, that are fixed on the rail. But there is still some research to be done about the beakhead-bulkhead rail/barricade, so things stay exciting :-)


About the article of John there are very interesting and controversial points in there, things that I love :-)


Some of his interpretations of the Turner drawings are very well discovered, with others I am not the same opinion, but it is good for the cause to have different points of view. A big flaw in the argumentation is, that he takes two models in account that NMM labels as "Victory" but I strongly believe them not to be. Look here: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/6044-wrong-identified-models-of-hms-victory-in-nmm/?hl=slr0513


I do not know, if we are allowed to show the article here, it would be great, as it would nicely light up the discussion :-)


Cheers, Daniel


PS: Just discovered a nice detail on the drawing: The main stay and preventer stay pass on different sides of the fore mast :-0

Edited by dafi

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Hi Daniel,


Every time I look at the Turner prints I see something new as well, and agree this is a debate worth continuing with.


I've also overlain prints from SLR0513 over John McKay's drawings and agree there are major differences (as well as the similarities to the Turner prints), I think it may be intended to be the Victory, but was hypothetical, and very much intended to portray a concept for re-fit and is not based on the original framing plans as the gun port disposition is all wrong.


One difficulty is putting out of our minds HMS Victory as we see her today and assuming she is anything like she was at Trafalgar, the battle altered her, the post battle repairs altered her, the Seppings style refit altered her bow lines, the Victorians butchered her appearance all the more, and the early 20th century reconstruction to me seems very stylised taking her back to a time before her pre-Trafalgar refit. 


Hope fully more contemporary sources can be uncovered, just got to keep on looking and debating :) 



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Hello Gary, yes I think, there is much more to unearth :-)


In this context, has anybody knowledge how to get hold on Mr. Rivers sketch-/notebook? He was gunner on the Vic from 1790 to 1812 and excerpts have been published in some literature.








That is why I am looking for this source out of the Royal Naval Museum: William Rivers (1755-1817), gunner on HMS Victory: gunnery notes (Acc 1998/41)


Does anybody have any copies of that or know hoe to access that?

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