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HMS Victory by dafi - Heller - PLASTIC - To Victory and beyond ...

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Slow progress ...

 

Next came the frieze:

 

3 colors ...

 

Victory-Fries-190607_5165.jpg

 

... first the middle one ... 

 

Victory-Fries-190607_5166.jpg

 

... then into darkness they dwell ...

 

Victory-Fries-190607_5168.jpg

 

... then come the highlights ...

 

Victory-Fries-190607_5170.jpg

 

... gonna be fine enough 🙂

 

The same way the cherub was done.

 

Victory-Fries-190607_5174.jpg

 

Then tried some shading for the bronze guns.

 

Victory-Fries-190607_5177.jpg

 

The huibrol bronze was the first test. Some brown already helps a lot 🙂

 

Victory-1765_160608_5178.jpg

 

From the museums one knows green or polished in brass-look. But how did they look in real life when in use?

 

Victory-1765_160608_5179.jpg

 

Questionmarks!!!

 

XXXDAn
 

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Fine friezework at that scale, Dafi. Well done!

 

The guns were iron, not bronze. Bronze was too expensive for the government coffers. The last ship to be fitted with bronze cannon throughout was the previous Victory, sunk in 1737. Most of her cannon are still on the sea bed in the English Channel.

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Thank you Sirs,

 

@druxey My understanding was, that the Vic of 1765 was first fitted with brass cannons and those being replaced by iron later on? Is this not correct?

 

Have to look at my literature again.

 

Cheers and Thank you, Daniel

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Some more tinkering around happened ...

 

Some 0,6 mm brass wire was bend on the template ...

Victory-1765-Channel-irons_5458.jpg

... cut open ...

Victory-1765-Channel-irons_5459.jpg

...collected ...

Victory-1765-Channel-irons_5465.jpg

... alined ...

Victory-1765-Channel-irons_5468.jpg

... and looks ok.

Victory-1765-Channel-irons_5471.jpg

Then soldered with homeopathic dosages of solder ...

 

https://www.mediaharmonists.de/bilder/Sammler31/Victory-1765-Channel-irons_4796.jpg[/img]

 

... and blackened.

Victory-1765-Channel-irons_4870.jpg

XXXDAn
 

Edited by dafi

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Hi Dafi,

 

Concerning bronze cannon Bugler at page 21 says “It is also interesting to note that by 1790 all brass ordnance had been succeeded by cast iron throughout the Navy and it is very likely that the last remaining brass ordnance in the Victory was discarded during this repair (1788)”. Not definitive but opens the possibility of brass cannon up to this point.

 

Gary

 

 

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Also, and I have to re-find the reference, he mentions that prior to the 1800 refit the 32 Pounders were of the old type, by which I presume he means the pattern that preceded the Blomfeld, in which case there would be a noticeable difference on your dummy barrels muzzle swell. He also thinks they may have been on at Trafalgar but we know this is not the case as we can trace them to 1803 and some remain on board.

 

Gary

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Hello druxey and Gary,

 

thank you for the input, always important to have this kind of questions and corrections.

 

I was going through a lot of my sources lately and found the same kind of statement like Bugler´s at AOTS McKay, that made me believe some years ago, that the brass cannons were used on the Vic until this date. But he is even more vague about it. Now reading it more aware-fully, he also could have expressed that in general all the brass guns were replaced by the 1790ies.

brass.png.508922134b82efacb0afaf70c873417b.png

 

On the other hand he states that it is possible that before 1782 the Vic still had brass guns, without specifying if all of the guns or only the larger calibers.

643847784_Refit1782.png.0277cb1cedf790d562146d0d5d72f5bb.png

As McKay is largely based on Bugler, I would strongly guess, that he based his opinion upon Bugler´s book.

 

I also remember a newer input after the discovery of the 1737 Victory, that this ship was the last major ship being fitted with an all brass ordnance. Did not locate the source again yet, but also do believe that this was in a video or news section, and do not know the quality of the sources that this statement was based on.

 

All my other sources so far do not give a statement upon the gun´s material prior to 1782/1788.

 

Cheers, Daniel

 

 

Edited by dafi

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It is very doubtful that Victory of 1765 had brass ordnance. The previous Victory of 1737 certainly did - she was fully armed with brass - but all that was lost when she went down. (Perhaps this has created the confusion, with two ships of the same name?) Very few guns have been salvaged: most are on the sea bed. The cost of brass vs iron was considerable, and the government was not about to sink large amounts into more brass!

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Thank you druxey. I am with you. But I wonder about the sources of Bugler and McKay.

 

At least the Vic of 1737 was not found yet at the date of the release of their books, so less confusion then.

 

XXXDAn

Edited by dafi

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Dafi,

 

If you wanted to pin it down there are The National Archives, under ADM 160 (and sub-divisions) Ordnance Office, but it would be a hell of a search through the letters sections unfortunately, there seems to be no single returns book as there was from 1803 onwards.  Chances are that most of the guns stayed with her from refit to refit as they were set aside when taken out, so the 32 Pounders are probably the same ones from 1788 onwards through to Trafalgar and beyond. They were all made by Walker & Co..

 

The reference I mentioned earlier I would look for was from ARMING THE ROYAL NAVY, 1793-1815: THE OFFICE OF ORDNANCE AND THE STATE by Gareth Cole, he states “Victory herself appears to have been armed with old pattern cannon” and then provides the reference “An Account of Iron Ordnance on Board of His Majesty's Ship Victory, Chatham. 28th April 1803', TNA ADM 160/ 154. Although, it is not known if these were replaced in the summer of 1805 while she was at Portsmouth”.  We know from the 1803 and 1807 returns (the ones I sent you) that they were the same throughout, so we know they were iron, and probably date to at least 1788.  If these were the old pattern guns, probably Armstrong, they may have stayed until the refit in the 1810’s. A comparison with Armstrong / Bloomfield pattern guns and those on the deck lower deck of the Victory would tell you which ones they actually were if you want to go that deep into it.

 

Gary

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Once the irons being fixed one can see the difference in V1 to the actual version. As the first build just developed without further planing, it was not possible to fix all the irons properly as for the ports, so it was good to have a fall back version and to start anew 🙂

 

Victory-1765-Chains_5092.jpg

 

Victory-1765-Chains_5093.jpg

 

An after all this fiddling with the small tiny chain links it was good to fix something bigger in a decent size ...

 

Victory-1765-190728_5223.jpg

 

... the port for the main tack, the batten for the channel board being fixed, some ringbolts to straighten the shrouds and the missing port lids ...

 

Victory-1765-190728_5224.jpg

 

... splashed some paint ...

 

Victory-1765-190730_6990.jpg

 

Victory-1765-190730_6999.jpg

 

... the side half door lids with the painted frieze ...

 

Victory-1765-190730_7003.jpg

 

Victory-1765-190730_6993.jpg

 

... and the very elegant conduct of the lifting halliard of the foremost gun port lid 🙂

 

Victory-1765-190730_7000.jpg

 

Victory-1765-190730_6996.jpg

 

XXXDAn

Edited by dafi

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Hy Daniel - the cornice on the gunport lids were painted in the Vic-1st edition? Okay for the horizontal shared door I can understand as the cornice will block the doorsides to be fully opened.  But usual gunport lid? I thought the cornide will be applied over the hinges du to keep the elegant lines alive.

 

Or am I wrong coming to this idea from with my point of view of the French baroque side of shipbuilding?

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Hello Christian, 

 

I am following the contemporary model of 1765and this is how it is done there. I had a fast look onto other models, there much more often the fake frieze was even omitted, leaving a wooden square in the colored ground ...

 

XXXDAn

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Final sprint in view 🙂

 

Take a sprue, drill a hole and ...

 

Victory-1765-190731_7004.jpg

 

... heat it up and pull 🙂

 

Victory-1765-190731_7005.jpg

 

After some tries I had suitable tubes of 0,7 mmm outside and 0,3 mm inside. Alined them on 0,3 mm wire to be able to cut without smashing them by rolling under a knife.

 

Victory-1765-190731_7006.jpg

 

Drilled some 0,75 mm in the right angle into the ship ...

 

Victory-1765-190731_7007.jpg

 

... and glue the tubes in with a wire still as handling help.

 

Victory-1765-190731_7009.jpg

 

Checked the angle and checked the opening with a needle, then still applied some paint nice name "rotten leather" ;-).

 

 

Then fixing the halliards, to unravel the thread did not work as they were too thin ...

 

Victory-1765-190816_5955.jpg

 

... so held the thread tight onto a round edge and usied a sharpened needle in the right angle. Works rather easy ...

 

Victory-1765-190816_5953.jpg

 

... prepared the ringbolt ...

 

Ringbolts-1908117_7895.jpg

 

... threaded the bold and lead the free part of the thread through the eye of the needle, pulled ...

 

Ringbolts-1908117_7906.jpg

 

... and a second go for the splice, some glue and - DONE !!!

 

Ringbolts-1908117_7912.jpg

 

The port lids are waiting already 🙂

 

XXXDAn

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Thank you that is very interesting, Daniel.

Interestingly on

1566115288846-2092597226.thumb.jpg.c84bde5a8e2bb11ef694a1b4f8e73968.jpg

L'AURORE 1766 the hole gunport framing is painted on the hull. (Cannot shift the pic 90°)

1566115348303952263649.thumb.jpg.cf56a5c6650b1fb3859519dad938236f.jpg

On the other hand the cravings aft are astonishing

1566115398881467747083.thumb.jpg.4a76863852251f380a99502bf4ba9972.jpg

in detail and caftmanswork.

 

Something I do not understand - why this detailing was done there and wasn't invested somewhere else?

 

 

 

 

(All pictures from: G.Decacroix Corvette L'AURORE 1766 - 1775 Ancre/Paris 2000)

Edited by Heinrich der Seefahrer

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Hello Daniel,

creative attack on that problem. Wounderfully made parts!

 

And to keep things easier: Cutton buds do have plastic rods that stay as a pipeline if you get them lengthened over a flame - so the drilling before is not necessary. (It is an important tip from the Wingnut Wings website due to the rigging.)

 

Hth.

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Thank you, this is where I got the basic idea from 🙂 

 

But using the sprue I can choose the basic color and also can specify the ratio from internal to external diameter, as this one stays the same throughout the procedure.

 

XXXDAn

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Made the missing lids ...

 

Victory-1765-190812_7844.jpg

 

... drilled the holes for the hinge ...

 

Victory-1765-190812_7841.jpg

 

... fixed with the necessary distance ...

 

Victory-1765-190812_7851.jpg

 

... and put in the lanyards.

 

Victory-1765-190812_7854.jpg

 

 

The half port lids need extra distance as fort the moulding. 

 

Victory-1765-190812_xxx.jpg

 

So the hinges are quite far out.

 

Victory-1765-190812_7848.jpg

 

Also put in the lanyards. 

 

Victory-1765-190812_7849.jpg

 

Coming close to the finishing line 🙂

 

Victory-1765-190812_7856.jpg

 

XXXDAn

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And one more piece finished 🙂

 

Victory-1765-final-190816_7863.jpg

 

Victory-1765-final-190816_7865.jpg

 

Victory-1765-final-190816_7869.jpg

 

Victory-1765-final-190816_7870.jpg

 

Victory-1765-final-190816_7873.jpg

 

Victory-1765-final-190816_7875.jpg

 

Victory-1765-final-190816_7878.jpg

 

Victory-1765-final-190816_7880.jpg

 

Victory-1765-final-190816_7882.jpg

 

Victory-1765-final-190816_7884.jpg

 

The material of the guns is still in discussion. Did the Vici n 1782 still have brass guns - as Bugler and McKay see as a possibility - or did she have already iron ones. As discussed before, I will keep you updated.

 

So that was no. 2 out of four being ready now. Approx. 1780 and 1920 are done, 1805 and 2018 still to follow.

 

Victory-1765-final-190816_7860.jpg

 

Cheers, dafi

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On the road again, meeting Viccies, seeing colors that I´ve never seen ...

 

Adapted the color of the 2018 version a bit. Funny, like the original, it reacts very much upon the light. Looks different every time ...

 

Victory-2018-190817_7913.jpg

 

 

Fixed the board that protects the hammock cranes from underneath. 🙂

 

Victory-2018-190817_7915.jpg

 

Victory-2018-190817_7917.jpg

 

Cheers, XXXDAn

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Do not have too much time to busyness commitments. So even small things deserve a small accolade for personal encouragement.

A new gun port lid ... 

 

Victory-191022_8251.jpg

 

... and got from a comrade a wire 1,5 mm outer diameter and 0,5 mm inner diameter, so the small protection for the lid lanyards can be done more easily.

 

Victory-191022_8248.jpg

 

Victory-2017-191115_8258.jpg 

 

Victory-2017-191115_8262.jpg

 

And the hammock stanchions are fixed too ...

 

Victory-2017-191115_8256.jpg

 

Victory-2017-191115_8257.jpg

 

... and a little later were knocked down - of course  :-0

 

Also the chains suffered a bit, but my experience tells me that that is easily to be done 🙂

 

XXXDAn

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Hello Jan,

 

no the big one is too late for that, even though I already have a reminiscence for that, get surprised ...

 

... in some years or so 😉

 

For the small 2017-slice, I adapted as far as I can judge. Even with all the help from the friends here including the color samples, the color is still quite miraculous to me, as its appearance changes a lot through the light and shades. Have to see it one day with my own eyes to be able to understand it completely.

 

But not to let you down dear Jan, I will soon take out the wrecking ball and ELIMINATE a part that needs to be replaced, funnily one of the parts that is "original kit" - More soon.

 

XXXDAn

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