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My next build (dv) will be the Panart/Mantua kit 'La Rose'.  Or at least it will be if the kit arrives safely.

When I looked online to see if I could find any historical references to a French schooner called 'La Rose', I found one that placed her off the African coast, very evidently engaged in the slave trade, and several that referred to her being captured (more than once) by British ships.
One particular reference was to a capture in 1804 by Commodore Hoad (C-in-C of the Leeward Islands) off the coast of Guadaloupe.  He said the schooner had been "carrying 50 men, well armed, and one long brass nine pounder; sails extremely fast, well found, and victualled complete for three months for 50 men; just going on a cruise".

When I do my build, I'd like to add a brass nine-pounder to the deck equipment.  But I have no idea what it would look like, nor how big it would be.  The La Rose scale is 1:47, and the model length is 640mm.  This scales up to 30 metres (99ft), which I suppose includes the bowsprit.

All help would be appreciated, especially pictures (of models and'or the real thing).

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I've been delving deeper into the depths of Google, waiting (and hoping) for model-related information on these guns.
Seems they were called 'Long nines', and if not actually common they were well known and used in the 18th/19th centuries.  A typical barrel would have been around 9ft long (or a bit shorter), and the calibre was 4 inches.  It would have taken a 9lb cast-iron cannonball.

"Brass" would have been a misnomer.  They were actually cast in bronze, but so highly polished that it was called brass.

Its typical mounting would have been as a bow or stern chaser (ie, not perpendicular to the keel).  This also allowed room for such a long weapon to be deployed on smaller ships, and in a chase situation the gun's great range would have been particularly helpful.

What sort of carriage would a Long Nine have been mounted on?

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It seems they were usually mounted on a pivot carriage.  A circular metal or wooden rail that carriage rotated on.   I recall in one of Chappelle's works the drawings showing them amidships, bow mounted and stern mounted depending on the ship.  His drawings show different size cannon. 

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Hi Brian,


During 2003 Ships in Scale Magazine ran a series in six parts containing a monograph entitled British Naval Ordnance 1700 - 1815, by Michael S. Hohimer. A quick scan revealed that the shortest 9 pounders made were 7'0" going up to 9'0" in increments of 6".


He does not describe the metal that was used. As original ordnance they were installed in ships carrying  anything from 8 to 28 guns. As far as I know, 9 pounders were only made by the Brits.  


Since the cannon came from La Rose it would have been captured from the original installation unless, of course it was captured more than once. However, the identity of the original vessel would need to be ascertained.


I think that this would be a futile exercise but if this can indeed be established, the dimensions of the carriage would also be available.


I have not seen the SIS magazine for several years and it may be that it is no longer published. The copyright was held by Clayton a. Feldman, The owner of SIS at that time, but he subsequently sold the business. Mr Hohimers' address is given as P.O. Box 15, Greensburg, KY 42743.


SIS magazine subsequently made a series of CD's and DVD's available for sale that I expect also included the series.




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Hi again Brian,


I am probably wrong (no pun intended) but what Mark is describing could perhaps be a weapon such as that used on the Lively - an American war vessel. The Lumberyard produces a kit of this vessel and you can inspect it on their website.


The "Long Nine" that I am referring to is a carriage mounted cannon that could, of course be mounted as on the Lively.



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Hmm.  So perhaps I should wait a while before asking any more questions?  Time for bed over here anyway!

(next morning ...)

I looked at the Lumberyard website.  They've got a long nine pounder which seems dead right for the scale.  I just ordered the cannon - I'll worry about the carriage (pivot or ordinary) when I actually start building!

Thanks for the pointer Richard!

Edited by probablynot
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I was having a senior moment.  I remembered seeing some builds with the pivot guns but couldn't remember the ships.  Dubz build is one of them.  BTW, I did pivot guns on my Constellation using the metal track, metal carriages, and Parott Rifles which was appropriate for mid-1800's.  However, in the research, there were several photos I found on Google for Confederate Navy pivot guns using wooden track, wooden carriages, and what looked to be a 32 pdr.   I don't have the reference anymore, but probably with some creative Googling you'll find something out there to help.

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