Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Ok, here goes.

 

This is my first model and it's not going to be pretty so I apologise in advance for my butchery of this fine starter kit.

There will be blood (I must use round nosed scissors), sweat and tears along the way. Hopefully not too much blood.

 

What there will be is lots of questions as I stumble through the process but, I am looking forward to learning.

Firstly I need to work out how to post pictures etc so bear with me.

 

So gripping my nose, cheeks puffed out like a child jumping into swimming pool, here goes.

 

Wish me luck.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My clamps hadn't arrived so I couldn't use the aluminium angle as described by themadchemist so improvised by using a engineers square, gluing one at a time.

 

post-15202-0-60781700-1412799066_thumb.jpg

 

 

As I progressed along the false keel I started using a combination of engineers square / small vice / rubber bands and height gauge thingy.

 

post-15202-0-60781700-1412799066_thumb.jpg

 

post-15202-0-59105700-1412799302_thumb.jpg

 

everything seemed to hold square, thankfully.

post-15202-0-43264600-1412799277_thumb.jpg

Edited by giantdog
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Ant,

There is always more then one way to do just about everything, and a machinist square is a wonderful option. Nice use of the machinist clamp also.

 

Also don't apologize for the adventure your about to undertake. Everyone comes to the table with differing skill sets and differing temperaments. You are only completing with yourself and you can judge your success in smiles. Remember hobbies are for fun and patience is the first step in success.

 

I see I was first to follow your log :)  as the Swift is a pretty popular kit, I'm sure you'll have followers to bounce questions off of soon enough.

 

It looks like your to a great start and I look forward to seeing another version of this wonderfully versatile kit. It has its issues, but then they all do. This kit did give me a real appreciation for the pilots and the other smaller working craft. One day I hope to build a POF pilot boat that's not Floydian, but more historic.

 

So  :722972270:, let the adventure begin :dancetl6:

Link to post
Share on other sites

First questions.

 

Bulkhead number 1. The instructions say it should be flush with the top of the frame, but that makes it not extended fully to the keel area.

Please see photos.

 

My questions are :

Do I simply blend the fill pieces and not worry about attaching the planks to bulkhead.

or

Take the fills down to the bulkhead and glue a 'shim' to it to fill it out?

In fairness the fill blocks are only roughed down, but if you look at the bow edge of no1 bulkhead just reaches the keel but the stern edge doesn't.

 

post-15202-0-67626400-1412842568_thumb.jpg

 

post-15202-0-23187900-1412842587_thumb.jpg

Edited by giantdog
Link to post
Share on other sites

While I think about faring the bulkheads I've made a start on the lower decks, as I think it will be easier to get the lines when the false deck is on?

Does this sound reasonable?

 

Talking of lines, again I could be barking up entirely the wrong tree but...I didn't like the way using pencil on the edge of the deck planks looked soo I decided to use cotton.

Please see photos.

I'm not sure if this is a.) called chalking b.) will work and c.) will look ok. But seeing as it's my first build I thought I'd have a play.

What do you guys think?

 

I've pinned the inner deck down to save having to wrestle with it, then pinned a length of black cotton to follow the line I'd previously marked and then glued the first plank in place.

 

post-15202-0-61781700-1412848778_thumb.jpg

 

Then simply repeated with fingers crossed and tongue sticking out of the corner of my mouth.

 

post-15202-0-93410200-1412848928_thumb.jpg

Edited by giantdog
Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at your filler blocks they look good. On the question of where to stop shaping? the bulkheads are the place the planks should be attached, although the bulkheads should have a bevel or be faired. This bevel or fairing will be most extreme at the bow. Basically you want the edge of the bulkhead to have a full flat contact patch for the plank to glue to.
Another way of thinking of this is that the plank should be perpendicular where the plank hits the bulkhead.
 
I think this is best illustrated in the tutorial "simple hull planking" by Bakker, Booker and Rogers, which is now on the NRG sister site here:
http://modelshipworldforum.com/ship-model-framing-and-planking-articles.php

Here is the illustration from page 9 of that tutorial showing what I'm poorly explaining.


Here's the main page for all the archives, which may be handy to bookmark.
http://www.thenrg.org/ship-modeling-resources.php

Basically your adding balsa to add a place to glue the planking, in a place that is the least forgiving, the ends. The bulkhead should remain the line to sand to though. On the sanding the 1st bulkhead should end up beveled along the leading edge at the bow. For he Swift the instructions also explain (poorly) to also bevel the keel (center) bulkhead to a V or point. This is so the planks meet nicely down the keel line.

Here's a picture of my build at that point.

 

The balsa gives the large contact patch for gluing, but the bulkhead is the starting and stopping point of fairing. I actually had to add shims to some bulkheads to shim them up as they were lacking or unsymmetrical. Fairing should take quite a bit of time as it is creating the foundation on which everything else lays.

You can spot check the lay of the planking by holding planking against the hull to check for smooth transitions down the length, on larger builds sometimes builders use battens to check this.

 

One question I have is the part sticking up (deck side) on the center keel just above the 1st bulkhead. This isn't on my older kit and it appears as though it will prevent the deck from laying flat when glued. Also the balsa should be used to fill the top (deck) area, near the stem. The balsa will give a flat spot for the deck to lay when glued. Actually flat is awful wording as the deck has a beautiful compound curvature, being high on the ends and in the middle, which aids in water flow off the deck to the scuppers. So I'm not sure why the notch is sticking up and I'd consider adding balsa to the deck side all the way to the stem top. Otherwise there will be a gap between the balsa and deck and this will make gluing the bulwarks on later more difficult.

 

I hope this wasn't just a bunch of confusing words as it's hard to put actions into words.

 

 

On the cotton used for simulated deck caulking, NICE idea. The decks actually where caulked with oakum (shredded hemp roping twisted into cord) so your actually doing it more close to correct then most. It should look really good. Also adding the lower decks before further fairing will give her more stability for fairing.

 

So far everything looks on track, Nice work!

 

Edited by themadchemist
Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a question, are you talking about shimming here?



If so, I would keep sanding. The shape is there but without fairing to about the center of the bulkheads line, the area will be fuller. In the long run it won't really matter, it just changes the shape of the bow slightly by widening it.

Back when I use to do auto body work, I found one tends to want to stop shaping when its smooth rather then when your at the correct level. If you look where I placed the arrow. and imagine the bulkhead and center keel faired so that the bulkhead has the bevel matching the keel at that point. Adding the balsa gives a false sense of "your there"

If you look at the front corner of the 1st bulkhead, it is at the center keel. In my opinion the front balsa needs another small bit removed as its feathered into the keel line to a point. This will bevel the leading edge of bulkhead 1. This will also take quite a bit more off the balsa between 1 and 2.

Understand this is all just my opinion, as the Swift doesn't actually build the plank rabbet interface but simulates it. You will end up sanding that part flat later for keel fitting after 1st planking anyway and I I have seen this area done many ways.

Fitting the keel is one of the toughest parts of this build, and prep work starts now. Just as with the stern being too thick and needing lots of thinning to match the keel thickness after planking.

One thing is for sure, Its always best to try and think as many steps ahead as possible, but then that is tough, when it's your 1st. Whatever you decide, it will be correct as its only a simulated bearding line. I would always chose smooth over is the shape 100% correct, unless building a scratch build. There were lots of pilot boat all up and down the coasts and everyone was shaped by the builder..... So here is your first decision as a builder. Welcome to the wonderful world of deciding. Let your gut tell you what is best, if you follow mine, you may end up with a Led Zeppelin inspired build, who knows. The main point is FUN.

It is the 1st and ONLY RULE of building. One MUST have FUN! :dancetl6:

Maybe this will help you picture the bearding line which has the plank set into a rabbet in the keel, The kit doesn't do this at all, but it is what your attempting to simulate. As a pictures worth a thousand words, I'll leave it at that for now.

Edited by themadchemist
Link to post
Share on other sites

I just looked back at John's log and can't tell from his pictures, but this is the notch I'm questioning. The older kit did not have this and It seems it would prevent the deck from laying correctly. John can better answer this then I as he built the newer kit.
 
Also you can see I point out where more balsa added would be good for deck support. clicking the picture will give a bigger view and also so you can read my notes with typo's :( 

That notch just seems above the plane (curved) of the decking when I look at the frame tops elsewhere,

Edited by themadchemist
Link to post
Share on other sites

I just looked back at John's log and can't tell from his pictures, but this is the notch I'm questioning. The older kit did not have this and It seems it would prevent the deck from laying correctly. John can better answer this then I as he built the newer kit.

 

Also you can see I point out where more balsa added would be good for deck support. clicking the picture will give a bigger view and also so you can read my notes with typo's :(

That notch just seems above the plane (curved) of the decking when I look at the frame tops elsewhere,

 

attachicon.gifpost-15202-0-07243400-1412842216.jpg

Thank you so much for your advice so far, please please keep it coming.

 

The step you're looking at locates the false deck, there is one at the stern too.

They actually seem to not only line the false keel and deck but also 'force' the false deck into it's longitudinal curve.

 

If you look at the false deck in this picture you'll notice a rectangular hole fore and aft (get me with my nautical terms).

These are where the 'pegs' locate.

 

post-15202-0-81614400-1412893151_thumb.jpg

 

I purposely sanded the balsa low to 'keep it out of the way', in hindsight probably a mistake.

Edited by giantdog
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well now, how about that. Is that new to the newer kits... or have I just never seen it before...hum.... It looks like a great innovation as getting the deck to conform to the compound curvature is the only place CA has been used on the DSotM.

 

Also you can build that balsa back up, hobby lobby and other craft stores sell the thinner sheets which you could stack a couple and probably fill that small area easily. I'm not so concerned about deck support, but rather something for the bulwarks to glue to as they take the bow curve, it only has about a 3mm ledge to glue to as it is.

I'd also recommend replacing the plywood bulwarks with solid basswood sheeting as it takes shape better then the ply and a 3" piece is only a couple bucks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Re the bulkhead question, this is what I'm wondering about :

 

post-15202-0-62458200-1412934773_thumb.jpg

 

post-15202-0-33679700-1412934802_thumb.jpg

 

post-15202-0-83827000-1412934821_thumb.jpg

 

I understand what you're saying about sanding the false keel to a knife edge at the bow and that that will bring the bulkhead in.

I'm just wondering whether that'll be enough.

 

 

Edited by giantdog
Link to post
Share on other sites

I shimmed a bunch of the bulkheads on my AVS for the same reason giantdog, and I believe that it's the right way to proceed.  Worst case is you end up sanding the shim all back off.

 

Take a look at the early parts of my current AVS build if you'd like to see pictures of the shimmed bulkheads and how they ended up fairing.

Edited by GuntherMT
Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are some early fuzzy pictures of the process on my older kit. The focus is really BAD, but you can see that the front corner of the 1st bulkhead just touches the outer edge of the false center keel. I never put these in the log due to the quality of the photos, but hopefully you can see that my build had exactly the same issue.

It HAS to, as the bulkhead bottom is square and the stem is curved as keel transitions into stem. There has to be a wedged area or the bulkhead front corner would have stuck out if the back end was even with the keel. This could have happened if the bulkhead was pushed deeper into the slot, but then it would not be flush at deck level.

What your seeing it a must unless AL makes a beveled 1st bulkhead, which they don't as they expect you to do all the shaping.



and you can see how much was removed with beveling and fairing. Also notice the keel (and surrounding balsa) is sanded back rather then shimmed out and there is still a small gap. Like I said it will only change the shape of the bow by widening it a bit, but as I had a lot of narrowing to get the thickness for the keel attachment at the stern, so goes the bow. Remember just like at the stern the bow you don't want over-wide, or wider then the keel contact and you still have planking to thicken it even more.



I'm not advocating either method as correct, just showing you examples of my build. Like I said, it wont matter in the long run. Actually the bulkhead becomes meaningless when the balsa is added other then a guide to where the sanding and shaping should be stopped. The balsa performs the task of a glue contact patch for the planking, that is much larger then just 2 points at 1st bulkhead and stem.

The balsa in front of 1st bulkhead also gives a place for the plank to lay and maintain a smooth curvature through the bow planking. In my longboat build, there was no balsa and getting each plank to have the right curvature without the balsa to force it down onto made the task more daunting, as some wanted to dip inward. On the long boat I had to remove planking due to symmetry that the balsa would have helped maintain.
The bulkhead in the kit is designed to be a glue point and you changed that to the balsa, so whether you add a shim or not the glue will not be stopped from holding by that wedged shaped gap. You will just glue the plank over it to the balsa.

 

Try holding the stem up to the bow and imagine planking added and see if it is over wide. I believe that is probably the best test as the newer kit seems to differ a bit. It looks to have a thicker center keel, probably due to so much of its and bulkheads removal the make the open lower deck areas.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it looks very striking.  I'm a terrible person to ask if it's "right" though, as I'm less than two months into this hobby, and I've seen all kinds of different 'looks' on decking and trenails.

 

There are some great tutorials on planking that talk about various ways of doing it right here on the forums in the planking subforum - look in the stickied posts and read all of those tutorials/guilds, and go with what you personally like the best, in my opinion.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't it amazing what a GOOD oiling with do. It looks GREAT.

 

Not being critical, but rather curious.... what did you use to fill/blacken the treenails? I'm curious for 2 reasons, it really matches the thread and makes the nailing noticeable, but also I notice what appears to be staining around that area, as if it got into the wood graining. It also looks like it could be from the thread, did the thread bleed any color? Compatibility issues are always a worry.

Personally I like different and real and if she's going to be built historically she was a WORK boat, which would have bumps and bruises.

 

The thread is EXTREMELY striking and looks GREAT. So nothing was added except black thread and PVA. WOW. simple and striking.

I'm typically a tung oil fan, but love the POP the Danish gave the wood.

 

...and, I'd strike the "not very good" from your last comment and exchange modest

Edited by themadchemist
Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't it amazing what a GOOD oiling with do. It looks GREAT.

 

Not being critical, but rather curious.... what did you use to fill/blacken the treenails? I'm curious for 2 reasons, it really matches the thread and makes the nailing noticeable, but also I notice what appears to be staining around that area, as if it got into the wood graining. It also looks like it could be from the thread, did the thread bleed any color? Compatibility issues are always a worry.

Personally I like different and real and if she's going to be built historically she was a WORK boat, which would have bumps and bruises.

 

The thread is EXTREMELY striking and looks GREAT. So nothing was added except black thread and PVA. WOW. simple and striking.

I'm typically a tung oil fan, but love the POP the Danish gave the wood.

 

...and, I'd strike the "not very good" from your last comment and exchange modest

Thank you again for you encouragement  :D

 

Treenails...

in the fore deck (the one on the right in the picture) I drilled a series of 0.3mm holes, then inserted 0.3mm pencil lead and broke it off flush.

I then made the fatal error of sanding the deck surface with 800 grade paper, and you guessed it, the lead rubbed off and stained the deck.

 

Aaaarrrggghhhh

 

I removed as much as I could, but in the end decided 'it'll look like a dirty, distressed look'

 

You live and learn right?

 

The aft deck, I simply used a pair of dividers to create 'a indentation' and then used pencil lead to colour the indentation in.

 

The finish is COLRON refined Danish Oil (antique pine). I wanted something that soaked into the wood as opposed to a varnish 'sitting' on the surface.

The thread is just normal sowing thread, not quite as thin as cotton.

 

post-15202-0-52132800-1413145916_thumb.jpg

 

post-15202-0-77041200-1413145943_thumb.jpg

 

All seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

:-)

Edited by giantdog
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it looks just fine.  The pencil lead is an interesting idea, maybe if you were able to sink it below the deck surface slightly and then seal it with some sort of clear glue before sanding it might keep it from spreading onto the deck if you use that idea for a future build?

I'm unsure whether it's worth the bother?

 

I think the aft section looks better or at least as good. 

As I say, on that section I simple used the point of a pair of dividers to create a hole and spun my pencil in this hole as a boy scout would try and start a fire.

This left a black dot

 

.post-15202-0-36168800-1413147582_thumb.jpg

Edited by giantdog
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...