Jump to content
DocBlake

Rattlesnake by DocBlake - Mamoli - 1/64 scale Bob Hunt kit-bash log

Recommended Posts

All totaled, I broke the transom, either partially or completely, from the hull 3 times.  This is because it is flimsy and fragile with a minimal glue line holding it in place at a bad angle.  It's always in the way!  I decided to plank the counter and the transom first, which I did.  This stiffened the transom and provided more attachment area to the hull.  it is much stronger now.  The outer bulwark planking is done to the second plank row.  Next up is cutting and framing the gun ports.

 

Dave

post-3900-0-80668600-1432229911_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The wales were established by cutting out  a copy of the Hahn plans along the wale sheer line, and marking the location on the hull.  The was the upper border of the wales.  A plank was laid along the line, and a second plank below it.  I then planked two strakes above the wales.  Two additional planks of ebony will be added to the wale planks to give them their thickness. I then took the copy of the wale sheer from Hahn's plans (mounted on cardboard) and cut out the gun ports.  The template was then used to mark the gun port locations on the model.  The ports will be cut out and framed next.

 

Dave

post-3900-0-91714200-1432304970_thumb.jpg

post-3900-0-56881300-1432304991_thumb.jpg

post-3900-0-65091000-1432305009_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cautionary note that you probably are aware of:  The plans are 2D and the ship is 3D.  By draping the plans over the hull, any curvature in the hull will introduce errors in the 2D wrapped plans drawn to the hull surface, usually most pronounced at the bow or stern.  Be very careful of the adjustment variances introduced.  The biggest concern is the height of the ports off of the installed internal deck.

 

Good job so far, especially on the work on the transom and not giving up!

 

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Mark.  You're right that the template is only really useful amidships.  I plan to establish the bottom of the ports in that area and use the measurement from the deck to the port opening bottom to establish the proper location for the fore and aft port bottoms.  Their fore and aft locations are easy to measure from the amidships ports.

 

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Build looking great!

 

I am new here after a 20 year absence from wooden ship building as too busy working, lol. Recently purchased the Rattlesnake but seeing if anyone has advice on how to get started as far as tools goes. Maybe a basic kit worth buying. I am afraid the tools I used to have mostly disappeared over the years. Any advice would be appreciated and I will be following the Rattlesnake builds especially closely.

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions regarding getting some tools to get started with. Hope for quality without spending a lot.

As nobody else has responded - I can't give you a definitive answer, but browsing here might help -

http://modelshipworldforum.com/ship-model-materials-and-tools.php

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Weatim:  Go to lauckstreetshipyards.com and look under "services".  You'll see a tab for downloads.  Click on it.  There are a series of sample chapters for several Bob Hunt practicums (really "practica"!).  They are each Chapter 1 for each particular ship.  Download one.  Each sample chapter 1 has a list of tools and supplies useful in ship building.  You won't need them all, but It'll give you an idea of what to purchase.

 

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're making good progress Mark.  The Rattlesnake makes into a real beauty.  But the kit has some pitfalls from what I have seen.  My advice would be to study each phase as you proceed and check the build logs of those who have built it.  As for the ports you have a good idea but as noted before be careful of your alignment to the deck, Keep up the great work.

David B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From my experience, whatever pitfalls the model kit doesn't have, I make myself  :) !!

 

BTY, the transom looks real good. Nice job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jon:  I know what you mean about pitfalls.  At least half of those I encounter, I created myself!

 

I do like the way the transom turned out.  As I start framing the gun ports, I decided to switch from boxwood to swiss pear, so the framing and sills match the inboard bulwark planking.  I'd like your input on this, please.

 

I'm ready to begin framing the gun ports.   On each side, the first two ports from the bow, and the last two near the stern have port lids, so a lip has to be built to give them a surface to close against.  The middle 12 ports (6 on each side) have no lids.I want to make sure my measurements are correct, because I got a little confused by the practicum which talks about a 1/64" lip, but gives measurements for the sills that result in a 1/32" lip.

 

The non-lidded ports are 3/8" wide by 5/16" high, lined with sills and framing.  The ports with lids have the same size opening in the external planking, 3/8" by 5/16", but have a lip on three sides formed by moving the side framing in 1/32" on each side leaving the side lips, and gluing the lower sill 1/32" above the bottom of the opening to give the lower  1/32" lip.  Does that sound right?  Here's a photo:

 

Dave

post-3900-0-00423200-1432476728_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Based on what I can see in your photo, your gun port looks right. When I made these, my skills weren't the best so some of my port lips aren't exact. But at this scale, unless you look real close with a magnifying glass the variations vanish (at least with my eyes).

 

You may want to prepare the gun ports for the port lids at this point. The upper frame of the ports needs to be notched to accept the lid hinges The hinges are the only gluing surface you have to attach the lids to the ports and they don't provide much surface area for glue. I have already knocked half of them off since. I used CA glue, but if I were to do it again, I think epoxy might be a better choice. You may even want to postpone their attachment to a later time when they are less prone to be hit..

 

Nice job so far

 

Jon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for the misunderstanding.  The photo above showing the gun port measurements is from Bob Hun't practicum.  I'm not quite so far along.  I did locate the gun ports and cut them into the second strake of planking.  I used the cardboard template to locate a couple of the amidships ports, made sure all were the same height above the deck.  I measured the location of the fore and aft ports rather than introducing the error that the 2D template would bring to the 3D model.  All the port bottoms are the same distance above the subdeck - 9/32".  The distance between ports, from the aft edge of a port to the forward edge of the one behind it is 1-1/8", measured along the curve of the hull.

 

Dave

post-3900-0-44776500-1432506941_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well then, it still looks like you have everything under control, probably more control than I did at that stage. You're doing good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm beginning to work on framing the gun ports.  I'm using swiss pear so the inner lining of the port matches the inner bulwark planking.  The frames for the ports are actually a portion of the frames on the Hahn plans .  They extend from the deck line to the top of the bulwark.  I've cut out some templates and glued them to the swiss pear.  I'll then cut them out, bevel the ones that need it and glue them in place.  I did find an error in the practicum here, though.  Frames #24 and #26 form gun port 9, the third from the transom.  The practicum has you draw a line across the frame at a point where the frame is at deck level.  It states that #24 should have the line drawn 15/32" below the top of the frame.  The Hahn plans show that this distance should be 11/16".  Otherwise all the other measurements are accurate.  Next I cut out the frames and bevel as needed.  Fortunately only a small portion of the most extreme frames fore and aft require a bevel.  Most of the frames have no bevel to contend with.

 

Davepost-3900-0-05880200-1432665638_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was so new to model ship building at this point, I didn't quite understand what I was doing so was following the instructions blind. If you haven't already, I would suggest not cutting the top of the frames off. Hahn's plans are designed for the model to be built upside down with the top of the frames fitting into a jig. Therefore there is extra frame that needs to be cut off. If you know exactly what you are doing and are precise in cutting to exact length, it should work. If not, leaving excess frame to be cut latter while on the model give you a bit more leeway. The extra frame wood will also allow you to align the pseudo frames easier.

 

In my case I had difficulty because I didn't understand what I was doing. I had never seen a wooden boat put together before at this detail level. Some of my resulting frames were too short, tilted at the wrong angle, etc. even though I thought I was cutting as precise as I could be.  It is only latter that I understood the process and then it was too late in some areas.

 

As for mistakes in the practicum, there are a number of them, most of which I have documented when I caught them. In the later chapters they get more numerous. If you have looked at the later chapters, you will notice there is not one photo of a completed model. That is because Mr. Hunt never completed it but just showed how things needed to be done...for the most part. He stated somewhere that he was building 4 kits at once and was on a deadline. It appears that he had to cut corners.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cut out all the false frames for the gun ports out of swiss pear.  Next they get glued in place.  I attached temporary planking along the top of the bulkheads to help with alignment.  Rather than starting aft and moving forward, I'll begin amidships where the frames have no bevel.  I'm deviating from the practicum by installing the after frame first, then the lower sill, and finally the forward frame for each port.  Rather than cut all the sills to 3/8", I'll cut each one for a custom fit.  My port cutouts may not be EXACTLY 3/8' WIDE  ;)

 

Dave

post-3900-0-99039800-1432920896_thumb.jpg

post-3900-0-91530200-1432920912_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots of outdoor chores have limited my modeling time.  I have accomplished some, though.  I framed the gun ports in swiss pear to match the planned swiss pear inner bulwark planking.  This involved gluing Hahn frame segments to form the gun port sides, and then installing a pear sill across the bottom.  I'll install the top sill when the planking is done and the top of the gun ports are cut into the planking.  I'm working on fairing the inboard surface of all the framing, and need to remove several of the kit bulkheads as part of the process.  All this is fairly tedious, and progress is slow.  Fairing and/or removing the kit bulkheads (as opposed to the Hahn frames) is really tough because they're made of plywood that seems as hard as steel!  I'll get it done, though.

 

Dave

post-3900-0-00471100-1433684802_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This build is on my wish list. I have the Kit, Bob Hunts practcum, and the Hawnn Plans for over two years now. I am fighting the urge to get started and finish my current build in progress. Best of luck with the build I will be following along.

 

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blue Pilot - I too plan on building the Connie and also have the Hunt Practicum, the US Naval History Heritage CD, and a ton of images of the ship, but what are the Hawnn Plan?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahh, that makes more sense. Didn't think to check if Harold Hahn had USS Constitution Plans. I have his Rattlesnake plans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm working on the planking above the wales.  I have one more plank on each side at the bow before the main rail goes on.  I've enlarged the gun ports to their final size.  You can see the swiss pear framing for the ports that matches the planned inner bulwark planking.   Jonathan or any other kit bashers:  Any tips on how best to make the scraper to form the profile on the main rail?

 

Dave

post-3900-0-53408900-1434302264_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Single edge razor blade and a dremel with a cutoff wheel to grind the profile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Bob Hunt practicum he points you to a company that makes very fine cutting wheels. I bought some and they cut through razor blades like butter, but they are very delicate. Breathe on them wrong and they will shatter. From other sources, people like to use old hack saw blades in lieu of razors for its rigidity. The real trick is figuring a way to manipulate the scraper so that you can cut the profile. Do you hold the blade against a fixed position spinning cutter or move the cutter while the blade is held fixed? The choice is yours.

 

 

It is very important that you wear eye protection. You don't want metal shards or broken cutting discs pieces in your eye. Because I am very farsighted and wear tri-focals, I need a clip-on 3X eye loupe as well and have to get within inches of the cutting blade to see what I am doing. Then I had to make numerous trial cuts till I got something halfway decent.

 

 

Once you've created the scraper, clamp it in a vise...tight. Use a piece of wood that is longer than you need and fits exactly to the width of the scraper's profile cut you made. Draw the wood strip repeatedly through the scraper.

 

 

Jon

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jon:  I have the cutting disks and the mandrel (I should say the 10 mandrels I was forced to buy as a package!).  I've already broken three discs and gone through a half dozen razor blades practicing.  I'll get it eventually.  Once you got an acceptable profile, did the one blade work for all the molding needed?  Did it hold up and cut cleanly without breaking?

 

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I had to buy the package of mandrels as well. Those don't break so I (and probably you as well) now have a lifetime supply of mandrels. As for the discs, well...At least the razor blades are cheap. I didn't know about using hacksaw blades as an alternative. Even if I did, I didn't have any new or old ones to use. Once the scraper was made, it held up rather well although my technique of using it could have used some improvement. I did not have to replace it due to breakage or wearing out.

 

What method of cutting the profile did you use?

 

You may have notice if you have read further into my log, that I tried not using scrapers if I could get away with it. I just found the scraper tedious so I tried to be a little imaginative with my Dremel drill press which I detailed in the log. Let me state now that I am not a fan of the Dremel drill press. I find it too loose and imprecise. It is plastic after all, but that was and still is all I have. One of these days I'll get a real milling machine.

 

Jon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jon:  I've been trying to hold the razor blade stationary and move the cutting disk.  I'll get the hang of it!  Ditto in regard to the milling machine.  I have a Dremel drillpress also, and while it has it's uses, it has lots of flaws; lack of precision being number one.

 

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the way I did it, I had all the finesse of a blind drunken sailor with hiccups.

 

If I knew how to do this easily, I would lock the Dremel horizontally so that the spinning disc would be downward at the point cutting. Then mount the razor blade flat on a notched piece of wood for solid support with the razor's edge flush with the wood piece's edge. The notch is where the cutting disc would engage the razor. Finally mount the razor and notch wood platform on an X-Y Table for absolute precise movement.

 

Jon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Dave -- I just now caught your build log, and have to admire your work.  The Rattlesnake is a lovely ship, and Bob Hunt's practicum can guide you through lots of steps in ways that can build your skills.  Jon has done a great service documenting all the errors, so heed his word carefully!

 

As for cutting the razor blade, my experience was very close to yours.  The 2 biggest problems I faced (on repeated efforts) was cutting the razor blade to a consistent pattern, and getting the width just right.  I always seemed to make it too wide for the stock, which resulted in wobbly molding as the wood wandered.  Coincidentally, I'm just about to make some molding for my Fly, and am going to try using my mini mill in a set up similar to what Jon has described using the Dremel drill press stand. 

 

Good luck -- I can't wait to see more of your progress.

 

Martin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Martin.  You're right, "Rattlesnake" is a lovely ship.  I especially like the tumblehome! Can you post a link for your "Rattlesnake" build?

 

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

About us

Modelshipworld - Advancing Ship Modeling through Research

SSL Secured

Your security is important for us so this Website is SSL-Secured

NRG Mailing Address

Nautical Research Guild
237 South Lincoln Street
Westmont IL, 60559-1917

About the NRG

If you enjoy building ship models that are historically accurate as well as beautiful, then The Nautical Research Guild (NRG) is just right for you.

The Guild is a non-profit educational organization whose mission is to “Advance Ship Modeling Through Research”. We provide support to our members in their efforts to raise the quality of their model ships.

The Nautical Research Guild has published our world-renowned quarterly magazine, The Nautical Research Journal, since 1955. The pages of the Journal are full of articles by accomplished ship modelers who show you how they create those exquisite details on their models, and by maritime historians who show you the correct details to build. The Journal is available in both print and digital editions. Go to the NRG web site (www.thenrg.org) to download a complimentary digital copy of the Journal. The NRG also publishes plan sets, books and compilations of back issues of the Journal and the former Ships in Scale and Model Ship Builder magazines.

Our Emblem

Modelshipworld - Advancing Ship Modeling through Research
×
×
  • Create New...