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H.M.S. Victory, Heller, 1/100, Onward and Upwards.


Izzy Madd

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Hi.

 

I'm just waiting for the arrival of my first model in 35 years. And I know this is a big leap from way back then. So I'm also doing an airfix H.M.S. Catty Sark in between. Hopefully to retain what's left of my insanity.

 

The reason I'm starting this thread is, I suppose obvious in a way. Help advice and tips. But the real reason is decades ago I was young and able to conquer the world. As we all were. Now I'm in a slow slide of disability. And I suppose you could call this my Swan Song. Go out with a bang eh. At least I'll have a boat waiting at the end :-).

 

But in the meantime I'm wanting to make this one to remember. And as I have issues with mobility, vision, and dexterity oh and memory. Any advice, as to what others have done or trick to make thing simpler. Will be gratefully welcomed. As well as a few other choice comments I'm sure I'll raise. Feel free to point out any pratfalls I make as I hope to share the build on here as well. If not here then in the appropriate part of the forum. (Moderators. Please feel free to move this where ever you feel it belongs. I apologise in advance for the many errors, and faux pars I'll make)

 

So as Nelson said "England Expects" and with your kind help this jolly jack English man wil rise to the occasion.

 

So please shout up and tell me whatever you feel needs saying that will make this journey simpler. Even if it's already been said. I don't mind being treated like a idiot it gives me something to reach for. But if I can avoid mistakes it's better than correcting them.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Izack(Izzy) Madd

Edited by Izzy Madd

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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One question I have is the etched parts. As they are actually more expensive than the model. Is the full set worth it or just a certain selection.

 

And if they are the bees knees. I'll be buying them piecemeal. Which should I get in what order.

 

Thanks again

 

And I'm hopefully aiming to build something that looks like it's just about to slip into the water all shiny and new.

 

I realise they never went into the water fully rigged but you know what I mean.

Not much in the way of distressing.

 

Just something to leave my name on with pride.

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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I would get a copy of Anatomy of Nelsons Ships by Longridge. Its really a close study and description of the building of an HMS VIctory model. Its notable for its great pen and ink illustrations. All the drawings of Victory you could wish for and all of them done really well.

I'm working on a Heller Victory as are some other guys here. feel free to ask questions.

  

Quote

 

 Niagara USS Constitution 

 

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I would get a copy of Anatomy of Nelsons Ships by Longridge. Its really a close study and description of the building of an HMS VIctory model. Its notable for its great pen and ink illustrations. All the drawings of Victory you could wish for and all of them done really well.

I'm working on a Heller Victory as are some other guys here. feel free to ask questions.

Hi.

 

Thanks for that as it happens I've just got the book and leafed through it and as you say the drawings are brilliant. Especially the spaghetti sorry riging. So as you can all see I'm not just relying on you I am trying to get the information myself but please. Do comment.

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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er of Good luck with your build.  I built the same model a number of years ago, and while the project did not appear too difficult, there are still some points that will require your attention;

 

The rigging is certainly the most difficult part of the build, and being a plastic model in a relatively small scale, the tension of each line has to be determined with care, and a block of beeswax is of great help: run each line on it to prevent later fluffing and slacking of the threads.  The jib boom receives quite a few lines and definitely deserves replacing by a metal rod as it will almost certainly bend or break at some point of your ship's career.

 

Another point to consider is the vulnerability of the guns and gun ports, especially during the rigging process.  If you do not rig the lower guns, it is advisable to...nail them together with their carriage to the deck, or you may have some guns going adrift...  The gun ports I would fit at a very late stage of the build.

 

Finally, about after market products, you may want to look at some of the fantastic build logs on this site and judge by yourself if they are worth the investment.  One item I would certainly buy is the decorated entry port.  The chains I made with black thread and they look convincing enough to me

Edited by Jean-Pierre
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Hello Izzy,

 

the good thing is, even without etch parts one can make a magnificent model out of this box :-)

 

Have a look at my build and you will find most parts described how they can be build without using after market parts.

But if you wish to use some, all parts are available separate, so one can pick the things that are useful.

 

Another useful link is http://pete-coleman.com/forum/ 

This site is largely dedicated to the Heller-model with many hints and tricks.

 

I hope this helps, cheers, Daniel

Edited by dafi
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Thanks for the link and I'll be reading your build with avid attention to date tail.

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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Hi,

 

Someone gave me a list of research materials but for the life of me I can't find it anywhere. Sorry to ask but whom ever it was could you please re submit it to me.

 

Thanks

 

Izzy

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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A small selection
"The 100-Gun Ship Victory (Anatomy of the Ship Series) " fom McKay
http://www.amazon.com/100-Gun-Ship-Vict ... 229&sr=1-1

"HMS Victory: her construction, career and restauration" from McGowan with drawings from McKay
http://www.amazon.com/HMS-Victory-Alan- ... 109&sr=8-1

"The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships" from Longridge
http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Nelsons-S ... 365&sr=1-1

"Rigging Period Ship Models: A Step-by-Step Guide to the Intricacies of the Square-Rig" from Petersson
http://www.amazon.com/Rigging-Period-Mo ... pd_sim_b_7

"Owners´Workshop Manual" from Goodwin
http://www.amazon.co.uk/HMS-Victory-Man ... =8-1-fkmr1


Nice to have:

"The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War: 1650-1850" from Goodwin
http://www.amazon.com/Construction-Fitt ... pd_sim_b_4

"Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War, 1600-1815" from Lavery
http://www.amazon.com/Arming-Fitting-En ... pd_sim_b_5


Supplementary

"HMS Victory" from Hackney (German Version): because of the planset included

Edited by dafi
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Update for my comment about blacking steel cannonball

 

There's an auction on eBay, 221688613139, for 1kilo of 2mm lead shot. You have to make your own arrangements for collecting but at 2mm they are very close and already the right colour. Also the bearings in general are where I picked up the trick of ciric acid. As I bought some old stock that was very old 30+ years maybe. But some had gone rusty. I threw them all into the acid simply for speed. Within two minutes they started bubbling. So much so that the jar I'd put them in poped the lid off within the hour. But I just kept swilling them around when I thought about it until they were jet black. But no chance of it chipping or scratching. As I researched later to discover what had happened was the surface of the metal had bee turned into a protective layer of FeO₃ which it seems they call pickling in the metal trade. And has just about replaced Muric acid. As it does a better job and can be dropped down the drain. As its found in most soft drinks.

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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I've just been reading the instructions for Dafi's excellent etched parts for the deadeyes and he suggests either off cut Spurs or filled down pins.

 

First of all I'm only guessing but wouldn't veneer pins be the right size roughly without extra attention. And please remember this is only a question not a demand. Especially for those with less equipment/ability/confidence. When attaching the chains if a fine brass or even the core from copper electric wire. Made into a loop and passed through the chain and then through the side of the hull where it can be fixed as securely as you want. Short of welding that is :-P

Edited by Izzy Madd

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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Hy Izzy, Google pictures show the veneer pins looking as the ones that I deliver with my parts.

 

Have a look, they sell these in the sewing shops in different thicknesses. The ones coming with shirts (here in Europe) are a tad thicker than the one I use. Also there ia a large variety of head sizes. But as seen in my report you can easily fix that :-)

 

Cheers, Daniel

Edited by dafi
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Has anyone on here been mad enough to build the Airfix 90253 "Cutty Sark" Special Edition?

 

Or is it only me...

 

And if anyone else had tried what was there opinion of the kit?

 

Because as far as I can tell two blind committees were given the job of designing each half of A ship. And they then drew lots as to what to call it.

 

When I used to do these models Airfix was the name. They were crisp detailed and at least looked as though they should fit. Yes they needed fettling. But now it's as though some one has got a load of parts and thrown them in a box and said "how many idiots can we get to buy this"...

Even the hull the two biggest parts are different shapes different sizes more sink holes than British roads. And nearly no detail.and what there is is distorted.

 

I'll post my effort soon on the build section. But not as a how to do it. More a how can I do it.‽

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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Hy Izzy, Google pictures show the veneer pins looking as the ones that I deliver with my parts.

 

Have a look, they sell these in the sewing shops in different thicknesses. The ones coming with shirts (here in Europe) are a tad thicker than the one I use. Also there ia a large variety of head sizes. But as seen in my report you can easily fix that :-)

 

Cheers, Daniel

Hi,

 

I hope you didn't think I was trying to tell you how to do it but it just seemed from memory that they may have been the right size. They should be softer than pins though. As the can snap very easily. What sort of diameter are the pins. Only I often have a knack of finding things in the oddest of places. I think it comes from having to have such a varied career. Due to 6 redundancies. As well as vast interests from knot tying to jewellery making and even leather work. And you'd be surprised how many time products from one interest. Are needed in another but there isn't any crossover normally.

 

Izzy

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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Share on other sites

er of Good luck with your build.  I built the same model a number of years ago, and while the project did not appear too difficult, there are still some points that will require your attention;

 

The rigging is certainly the most difficult part of the build, and being a plastic model in a relatively small scale, the tension of each line has to be determined with care, and a block of beeswax is of great help: run each line on it to prevent later fluffing and slacking of the threads.  The jib boom receives quite a few lines and definitely deserves replacing by a metal rod as it will almost certainly bend or break at some point of your ship's career.

 

Another point to consider is the vulnerability of the guns and gun ports, especially during the rigging process.  If you do not rig the lower guns, it is advisable to...nail them together with their carriage to the deck, or you may have some guns going adrift...  The gun ports I would fit at a very late stage of the build.

 

Finally, about after market products, you may want to look at some of the fantastic build logs on this site and judge by yourself if they are worth the investment.  One item I would certainly buy is the decorated entry port.  The chains I made with black thread and they look convincing enough to me

Hi,

 

I've had a very quick look at The Beast this morning. And noticed that at least som of the masts are in two parts. In order to save on some details, or just being lazy. What is you thoughts on putting a reinforcing tube inside the ones possible. Is it worth it or just overkill? Also you mentioned the chains and making them out of cotton. As part of my multitude of pastimes I've made jewelry and wondered what sort of size I'd be looking for. As I've som very fine bronze tone chain that I'm hopping will look right. But not sure at this time about scale. As I'm still waiting on delivery of some books on the subject.

 

Thanks

 

And very daunted

 

Izzy

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks Dafi

 

Some great info in the ones I've already got.

"The 100-Gun Ship Victory (Anatomy of the Ship Series) " got

"HMS Victory: her construction, career and restauration" from McGowan not ordered yet

"The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships" from Longridge ordered waiting for it to arrive all 2.5kg of it. Just a little light reading...

"Rigging Period Ship Models: A Step-by-Step Guide to the Intricacies of the Square-Rig I think I've got

"Owners´Workshop Manual" from Goodwin got

Nice to have:

"The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War: 1650-1850" from Goodwin not ordered yet

"Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War, 1600-1815" from Lavery not ordered yet

"HMS Victory" from Hackney (German Version) Waiting for

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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A small selection

"The 100-Gun Ship Victory (Anatomy of the Ship Series) " fom McKayhttp://www.amazon.com/100-Gun-Ship-Vict ... 229&sr=1-1

"HMS Victory: her construction, career and restauration" from McGowan with drawings from McKayhttp://www.amazon.com/HMS-Victory-Alan- ... 109&sr=8-1

"The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships" from Longridgehttp://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Nelsons-S ... 365&sr=1-1

"Rigging Period Ship Models: A Step-by-Step Guide to the Intricacies of the Square-Rig" from Peterssonhttp://www.amazon.com/Rigging-Period-Mo ... pd_sim_b_7

"Owners´Workshop Manual" from Goodwinhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/HMS-Victory-Man ... =8-1-fkmr1

Nice to have:

"The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War: 1650-1850" from Goodwinhttp://www.amazon.com/Construction-Fitt ... pd_sim_b_4

"Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War, 1600-1815" from Laveryhttp://www.amazon.com/Arming-Fitting-En ... pd_sim_b_5

Supplementary

"HMS Victory" from Hackney (German Version): because of the planset included

I'd love to get an untranslated version as the images are brilliant but as it is I have enough trouble reading English never mind German....

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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Hi,

 

I've just found this image "claiming" to be HMS Victory 1900.

 

post-18378-0-58002200-1427302467_thumb.jpg

 

Here's a link to a bigger version

http://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Victory_Portsmouth_um_1900.jpg

 

While I'm fully aware of the reputation and unreliability of this site.

 

This images look totally wrong. I realise it's been colourised etc. but even the back end looks wrong some how. And above the gun ports the strips come to a V shape but none of the pictures I've seen have this.

 

Is it just me or is this a total load of hog wash. As an image of Victory. Not by the person that's posted it I don't think but certainly by the people responsible for selling it surely?

 

Any thought?

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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The person who did the colorization botched it.  Blow it up and the blurriness becomes apparent. 

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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The person who did the colorization botched it. Blow it up and the blurriness becomes apparent.

 

I'm aware of that as well but there are too many details not right. Even the top deck line seems too high. It's as though they've taken a picture of just any tall ship and done the 1900 equivalent of photoshopped it, badly... Or should that be Fox-Tolberted. Edited by Izzy Madd

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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I'm in need of desperate help.

 

I'm making a recreation of the Cutty Sark. After the fire I think. To get my hand in again.

 

But I've come up against a BIG hurdle.

 

As with most when I was young I didn't need glasses and could thread a needle with a pair of chopsticks.

 

But my nemesis has decided it doesn't want me making models any more.

 

Basically on a good day I've got the fine motor skills of Richard Hammond ploughing a field, with his forehead. On a bad day I can't even see the feild...

 

Now bad days are a fete acomplee but there must be other wiser people out there. Who are wiser then me who can advise me how best to cope with the good days. That is when my hands shake in time with each other.

 

So please anyone with a mental age higher than mine, three years I think... How can I stick bits I can barely see together and any other tips for the daft and shaky like me. So long as it's clean and repeatable to the vicar I'll accept any suggestions, so any ideas PLEASE........

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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By all means an optivisor for the eyes, Izzy.  As for the shaky hands, it'll be a matter of figuring out how to brace yourself.  On my shaky days, all I can do is go watch the grass grow....  or work with something "not tiny"... like the lathe.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Get an Optivisor!I had to get one to see fine details when I work and it makes a huge difference!

Hi,

 

Thanks for the suggestion I already have these and a magnifying lighted lense. But on the days when my eyesight fails it's total as I say I couldn't even see the feild if I fell face down in it. Just a big white fog or my own private kaleidoscope. I don't know what's worse seeing all white or seeing everything twenty times over and distorted and anywhay about. Talk about "I'm so dizzy... Izzy"

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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By all means an optivisor for the eyes, Izzy. As for the shaky hands, it'll be a matter of figuring out how to brace yourself. On my shaky days, all I can do is go watch the grass grow.... or work with something "not tiny"... like the lathe.

I know those days but the only lathe I go near would have to be one of those kiddy ones. And the metal lathe otherwise I'd be sending chisel flying all over the place. And finger to follow :-)

 

Sadly I shake all the time it's not so bad if they move in unison it's when they decide to do what ever they like. I once ended in AnE after taking a chunk out of the hand holding a brach with a pair of hedge clippers. And before I started the cut. Bearing in mind the clipper blades are only 50mm long. My hand were 600mm apart. But just as I closed the clippers both arms decided to meet. Result me with a lovely v shaped scar in my left hand. And a few choice words at the time.

 

And to make matters worse the harder I consentrait the worse the shaking.

 

Perhaps if I just stick to the advice of my old woodwork teacher. "If at first it doesn't fit. Get a bigger hammer." Said whilst yealding an 8 pound sledge hammer. If I just nail the pieces to the table with a six inch nail then they won't move ever :-D

Edited by Izzy Madd

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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Yeah.. it's a metal lathe... just have to turn the little knobs...  and drink coffee with a straw.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Yeah.. it's a metal lathe... just have to turn the little knobs...  and drink coffee with a straw.

Just don't turn those little knobs to tight ;-). And make sure the coffe is cool enough. I find a good splash of whiskey helps ensure that. Hic...

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I've just found this image "claiming" to be HMS Victory 1900.

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

Here's a link to a bigger version

http://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Victory_Portsmouth_um_1900.jpg

 

Sad but true - but I really believe it to be correct ...

 

... The rigols replaced by triangles, the lines destroyed by the augmented bulwark, the ridiculous proportions of the masts and spars, the missing of half of the shrouds, the round bow with the lines going round, the iron hawses, the scuttles for the orlop with triangular "rigols", the closed waist with the garden sheds atop, and the missing bulkheads under the poop ...

 

... yes that was meant to be the Vic, plenty of photographs show this.

 

XXXDAn

Edited by dafi
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Sad but true - but I really believe it to be correct ...

 

... The rigols replaced by triangles, the lines destroyed by the augmented bulwark, the ridiculous proportions of the masts and spars, the missing of half of the shrouds, the round bow with the lines going round, the iron hawses, the scuttles for the orlop with triangular "rigols", the closed waist with the garden sheds atop, and the missing bulkheads under the poop ...

 

... yes that was meant to be the Vic, plenty of photographs show this.

 

XXXDAn

I really thought as it is so far from the ship we see today it was wrong. It's a wonder no one scuttled her looking like that as she is not a pretty sight at all. How on earth did she get like that? And who would want to save that. If it wasn't for her history?

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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Hi,

 

As I've been told on here already and from the dark and distant past rememberings the masts supplied with these kits by the very fact that it's made of the wrong material. Has a tendency to bend, snap, warp, sag and many other unwanted features.

 

Now I was rummaging around in my BIG box, a small room really, of bit and pieces that I've kept over the years. Because they could be useful one day, as we all do, don't we? When I came across some acetal round billet 6mm diameter. Now it may not be big enough for the bottom section. I've not checked yet.

 

But I was wondering if anyone has tried using this stuff for masts?

 

As it's designed for the engineering world. And is very stable whilst being able to flex enough that it doesn't snap. It also has a very low creep factor. So shouldn't tend to sag. And best of all it can be turned on a lathe very easily.

 

So any thoughts please

Ongoing builds,

 

SCutty Sark Revell 1/350 (Mini Nannie)

Cutty Sark Airfix 1/130 (Big Sis)

Will (Everard) Billings 1/65 but with wooden bottom, because I can

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