Elmina
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Everything posted by Elmina
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Thank you Jan , I am kicking myself.there was such a rats nest of lines when I got the model I didn’t know where to start so I removed most of it. The only photo I took prior does not give me close up views. anyway if you look at this photo it suggests the shrouds should be roughly even lengths , however the remnants I have one side is quite a bit shorter when stretched out. Could it be there was an additional dead eye above the chain bar on one side ? I have also attached the original grainy photo of the model before I removed it. I may never know how it was original but i would really like to figure it out. Thanks again for your help. Mike
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Thank you this one is really puzzling me Thank you. What is really puzzling me is the shroud remnants I have . One side is longer than the other. See photo if the Schroud goes up from the sheer pole to the mast both legs would be equal lengths. , any thoughts ? Or something in missing in the big picture ?? Thanks
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Hello it looks like I am switching my rigging plan from model schooner to pond yacht. It appears the model was not a gigged schooner but a pond yacht. The latest realization that the Schrouds were not looped over the mast but fastened to eyes sort of confirmed that . so my new library of schooner rigging books may not be what I need. however I would think the Schrouds weather looped over the mast or fastened to eyes / pond yacht or model schooner should look the same that’s where I am confused if I understand correctly , from the Deadeyes fastened to the sheer pole , shrouds lead up to the mast and back down to the opposite side of the sheer pole with rat lines between . Wether they are looped over the mast or fastened to eyes at the top they should have been about the same length . The problem is my Schrouds remnants with rat line are staggered with one longer than the other as seen in the photo. Any ideas why that is ?? thanks in advance
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Another thing that has come to me. The way the mast is set up with the spreaders ( see attached photo) There is no way for the shrouds to loop over the mast. The only possibility I see is that the Schrouds and stays were all fastened to eyes . Maybe this is an indication of pond yacht rigging as opposed to schooner model rigging ????
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Hi Phil if I understand correctly the shrouds would run from the sheer pole up to lower mast and back to opposite side of the sheer pole , with rat lines between My Schrouds remnants with rat lines in my last photo , have the lower connecting points staggered , one higher than the other . So one end would not have landed on the sheer pole ??
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I see, I wish I could say which of the 2 it is. I’m sure you are correct that it was a pond yacht. in an earlier post I was told that depending on what I wanted to do . Rig it as a display model of a schooner with all the information available or return it to the original pond yacht configuration which would be much more difficult , he suggested starting with a diagram of all the connection points etc. he had mentioned something about it not being self tending as well , I guess the reality is givin my knowledge and ability, and the fact that I only want to display it , I should probably stay the course of minimum racing schooner rigging .
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My assumption is it was a pond yacht because of the lead keel , as far as rigging, I would like to get it back as close to original as possible . With the remnants I have I’m hoping much of that is possible. If I can do the standing rigging, bow sprit , Schrouds etc and then the minimal running rigging . That would be perfect I have no intention of adding sails , I just hope to be able to display in that condition . Similar to a racing schooner I would like rigging for just 5 sails . Flying jib ,jib, fore stay sail, fore sail and main sail
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Ahhh thank you I will do that. simplified sounds so much better to me and you are the second to suggest that
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Hello , if I understand correctly the shrouds would run from the sheer pole up to lower mast and back to opposite side of the sheer pole , with rat lines between My Schrouds remnants in my last photo , have the lower connecting points staggered , one higher than the other . So one end would not have landed on the sheer pole ??
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Thank you Phil , yes I did get a copy of rigging period fore and aft . Im starting to realize I need a much better education before I run my first line , but with this site and members like yourself I think I can pull it off . So I’m going to continue to ask the questions and put a plan together as I work on the booms, spreaders masts etc. thank you
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Hi Allan, unfortunately I should have attached this thread or posting to my originals . I’m new to the site . my original posting is titled rigging a vintage schooner . I do not know the providence . I have had my eye on the model for over a year and finally agreed on a price . It was at a nautical antique and salvage company here in Florida . Just the size , shape , lines etc make it a piece of art to me . I wasn’t alone it seems most people that entered the store would spend some time looking at the model . It just jumped out over all the other , figureheads , ships wheels and other models etc . So even in its heavily damaged condition , I decided to take it home . The name on the back is Elmina (shooters island NY . thanks to some knowledgeable members on this site it was soon realized my model was not a replica of the 1901 racing schooner Elmina but a schooner yacht of the same era . It appears to have been a working pond yacht. Thanks for looking
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Thank you very much . I really appreciate the information. being brand new to this , i am trying to come up with a layout and plan before I can actually run the first line . I initially thought I could get started rigging but the reality is I have several damaged pieces , masts , booms , spreaders etc that need repairing or replacing . As I work on those items I will continue to ask questions and learn the terminology etc . Thanks again for your input Mike
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Hello I’m hopping to gain some knowledge with the few photos I have attached. Here . As some of you know I am attempting to rig this massive schooner . With bow sprit and mainsail boom included the boat is over 8’ in length. I believe it was built around the turn of the century . The masts , booms , rigging etc were either in several pieces or missing. I have the masts standing and I’m trying to layout a rigging plan. My question today is can anyone supply a diagram or illustration or even an explanation of how the completed Schrouds would have looked from just the photos I have supplied? The photo on the tile floor is my interpretation of how the pieces were assembled. I have 6 Deadeye’s for of the four locations. Thanks for looking
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I can find no evidence of a dolphin striker. I am going to post a free hand sketch of the bowsprit and bow showing all connection points etc. Howard had suggested it . I’m leaning towards the Gloucester fishing schooner setup seen in the attached photo . it appears to have the 2 bow stem attachment points and the larger of the port and starboard hull connection points. That still leaves 2 smaller port and starboard connection points unaccounted for
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Hello , I have tried to stay focused on the bow sprit rigging and will continue to focus on that. I just wanted to post this information I have identified 3 of the 5. Sails that were with the boat . I have what are obviously #1 the main sail #2 fore sail #3 fore stay sail . Then there arec are 2 sails , I am assuming jib and flying jib . One was on what appears to be a long jib stay . The lengths of the stay would work from the end of bowsprit to top of fore mast. It is about The only logical place I see for it , I’m assuming the sail remnants would be the flying jib ? The last one had only a piece of a stay running through it. I’m assuming that would be for the jib , but I’m the vertices edge of it seems too far away from the mast. .I have temporarily placed them and taken a photo / attached here. Any thoughts ? Thanks
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Thank you. This gives me so much to dive into . There is a large bronze plate with a hole in the center attached to the stem. We are assuming they is for a Bobstay there is a much smaller similar fitting up about 5 “ on the stem, that one is a mystery so far there are large plates with eyes just under the rail . They are the farthest back from the bow , we are assuming possibly bow sprit Schrouds . There are 2 similar much smaller connection points more forward and lower, about half way between the rail and waterline . They are a mystery . After looking at the drawings you sent , I’m thinking foot ropes possibly ?? there appears to never have been anything fastened to the bowsprit other than 2 small eyes on the top all the way forward ,so I don’t think a running Bobstay would have existed. I’m starting to think we will never know how it was originally rigged exactly but if there is a configuration that utilizes all the connections and is rigged properly. , that would be great. I will google the ships that you sent me. I have attached a close up of the bow connection points. Thank you very much
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Thank you so much. I have located the boom for the fore sail . It was actually attached by remnants of its rigging. There are also attachment points and fragments of the main sail boom. I really do not believe there were square sails. I have fragments of sails I am trying to identify and so far nothing square. I really appreciate your help and advice. I’m learning everything from scratch, the terminology is one of my greatest challenges at the moment . I have to go back and look but when you say gaffs , if they are the angered pieces that fork into the mast above main sails. Yes I have one and remnants of another. I will continue to study all of this. I am waiting on a copy of gaff rigg handbook to hopefully help me Thanks very much for all the info , knowledge and patience with a newby. I have decided to start with the bow sprit. I’m trying to determine how it was set up. Bobstay ,etc. gonna be a long journey but I find it very therapeutic Thanks again.
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That was ment to say fore stay sail remnants
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Thank you Roger , I will make a sketch , there is no hole anywhere underside of bow . I am awaiting a copy of gaff rig handbook. I’m hoping that gives me some visual references to the different possibilities. This is going to be a long journey but I am really excited about it. I have a lot going on but look for chances to research this rigging. It is therapeutic . It wouldn’t be possible without seasoned ship builders like yourself . Can’t wait to see the first lines attached here. I have remnants of sails here. So far I have identified the fore sail remnants and the rite stay sail remnants. There are more pieces to pick through . thanks again
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Hello the deadeyes are 1/2 “ and the hull is 5’ 8-3/4” overall thank you
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Wow thanks for the quick response Roger it’s great to be able to get these answers .as anxious as I am to get going here , I will be dissecting your response and all the terms and see what I come up with . This is humbling to realize I will probably spend weeks just on this area. . Can’t tell you how much I appreciate the knowledge. I thought I would start with rigging the mast stays just to stabilize the masts and have some visual gratification, but I guess if I’m working from the bottom up ,so I should start here with the bowsprit . Would a dolphin attach to the higher / smaller fitting on the stem ?
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This is my second posting on this model. I am brand new to this hobby and determined to rig this vintage schooner . I was given great advise and encouragement on my first posting . I have several questions on this project but would like to research one item at a time , the first subject is the bow sprit. I feel like I could spend weeks Just rigging it . I have attached photos to hopefully help you understand my questions. Thank you in advance to anyone who will entertain a newby # 1 there are 2 connection points on the bow, the lowest one is just below the water line I’m assuming they are for a dolphin striker and Bobstay .if that is the case the smaller upper one is where the dolphin striker would attach and the lower one where the bobstay would attach .Also can anyone tell me what the dolphin striker would look like , how it would attach etc ? there are also 2 connection points on both port and starboard bow that can be seen in my photos , I’m not sure what lines would run to them. there is a large brass ring with 4 eyes on the outermost portion of the bow sprit and 2 eyes fastened to the top of the bow sprit behind the brass ring. Wish me luck and thanks again
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