Captain Al

CF, that is exactly what I was trying to describe in words -- except this picture carries it to the extreme of a point (making it a triangle). If you cut off the upper few inches you have the trapezoid I referred to and the concept is clear cause you can see the lines distinctly enough to count the "planks" thereby recognizing that there are still the same number of planks on both ends of the drawing, just differing in width. Helpful picture. Thanks for posting it.

Can't help you much Mike. Like I said earlier, I'm just beginning to get the concept but if I look at your pictures the first thought I have is "so what's wrong?" Then I look a bit closer and see that at the stem there is less room for planks than back at midship. So I guess that's where the problem lies and why tapering is the solution. But I thought you had said back when that on this first planking you did not care if the planks ran all the way around the hull in one length. So why can't you just plank up to the point where you run out of space, and then end your planks there, filling in the final triangle at the lowest part forward of the hull with shorter, narrower pieces. I mean for a double planked hull, these first layer planks are no more than filler anyway. Your next layer you can plan out precisely and do it the scientific way. This would at least save you from removing six planks. I think removing stuff is tougher than putting them in in the first place. Good luck and have a wonderful B-day. Don't even read this til its over.

Measures a bit less than my bounty I think. Mike, have you tried drawing all this out on paper? I find that when I don't quite get it, the visual side of me takes over and I can scratch out something on paper. I've done this with the planking theories and maybe (just maybe) I'm beginning to understand not only why we taper but where. The next thing is how much. Use graph paper if you have some and draw a parallelogram (big words for a geometric dunce like me). Then divide the longest side into equal pieces. I have (conveniently found in my desk) a notebook of graph paper with the squares being exactly 5mm, the size of my planks. (oh, and btw, maybe I'm wrong but I think my planks are 1x5, not 2x5 as Capt. Fisher said earlier his were). Then draw parallel lines from right to left. You will see how you run out of space as you approach the shorter side of the parallelogram. You know, this shape may be a trapezoid, not a parallelogram, cause two of the sides are not parallel. Anyway, you can then divide the shorter side into the same number of planks as the longer side, and you'll know how wide the planks need to be on that side. The difference between the long side and the short side is the amount of taper. Example, long side is 30 inches, short side is 20. Planks are 5 so you can fit 6 in on the long side. But six into 20 is 3.33 inches. 5 minus 3.33 is 1.67. This is the amount of taper needed. You would mark the short side, draw a line and start to whittle it down. Hope all this is correct and helpful.

Yes we did decide on either a pre Tahiti or post mutiny ship.  I decided on the pre Tahiti since I thought the post mutiny ship wouldn't have any pots at all.  In the movie they chucked it all.  No use for pots.  You should see what I did with my pots.  I "sewed" in little rope handles on all 36.  My wife gave me lessons in making a French knot and doing this I now can start to dread the rigging in errnest.  I'll be posting pics soon. 
 
Given a lot of thought and reading, I can now understand why some calculations re the width of planks may be the best plan.  You have the option now to go with the second planking in a different manner.  If I'm understanding the whole deal, the full Monty so to speak, it comes down to that if you don't start tapering early on your planks will become narrower and narrower until you have just thin little strips to put into.  As they want no planks less than half the width of a full plank, it then behooves you to make some plans in advance.

Mike, it seems you have found the trick of planking the transom.  It looks fantastic.  I have wondered for awhile what to do with all the exposed edges of plywood that we'll have.  Especially the frames.  Just when I think about painting or veneering over them, I look at someone like Dan's Bounty and I don't think he worried much about that.  Maybe just a very dark stain put on those that remain exposed after all is done.  In my case, many of the frames will already be covered by added material to make them fair with the rest of the hull, and on the opposite side many will have been sanded down pretty smooth for the same reason.  Question of the day -- where are your breadfruit pots?

My my you are living dangerously on the edge.    I'm sure its going to work out well. 

Talk about hours of work.  More on this tomorrow.  I guess no-one said this was going to be easy.  I think challenging was the operative word.
I spent 9 hours today figuring out and solving the problem of why my beautiful little cabin would not fit under the beam and why it did not lay flush against the two outer beams it is supposed to glue to.  Problem stemmed from the use of 2 x 2 material when the whole thing was engineered for 1.5  x 1.5.  But like I said, more on this tomorrow.  At least I had not yet glued the cabin together, so my destruction work was kept to a minimum.

Those were my thoughts exactly too, Dom.  Pretty nice work for a guy who was so scared to start.

Great work so far Mike. I'm so proud of you and impressed by your perserverance and how you are adapting to difficult situations. It looks like you made a good decision to use filler. Do you believe that has made a tough job a bit easier?

Aliluke, can you put up a picture of a plank nipper? Or describe the tool a bit more. I don't understand how a nipper can be used to bend a plank. I've heard of manual plank benders. I thought a nipper was sort of like a wire clipper, a scissor that could cut angles, that sort of thing. I thought it was used to snip off the tail end of pins and eyebolts that protrude. Or even to clip to size small lengths of say 2 x 2 mm strips. I am about to post on my Bounty log a question about snipping off the ends of eyebolts, so I'll go and do that now.

I've been looking at your pictures and I guess what is happening is that you did the "easy" ones and now are going at the bendy ones. The work on the first few look great. I'm impressed. If I get that far and it looks that good I might quit while I'm ahead. What's the difference between a half open hull and an 80% open hull? I'm surprised your strakes are 2mm. Mine are only 1mm. That is a big difference which will make my bending much easier. Still I think I will get some type of tool or use a soldering iron or my wife's hair curling set. Will your second planking also be 2 mm? That'll be one solid hull -- compared to mine it'll be like a man o war. You haven't mentioned or shown the use of pins or clamps to hold the wet planks in place while they dry. Recalling many of the posts here on planking, if I'm not mistaken almost all are using clamps (a lot are using the modified paper clamps). I may be wrong that they are using them to hold on wet wood before gluing. Maybe they are used only when the planks are being glued on. But I don't see why clamping wouldn't be good in both processes.

Like Dom said, and I didn't know this, if your build is double planked, then your problem isn't til later. Mine is single planked so its got to be good on the first pass. I haven't yet figured out a fall back position to when I screw it up big time, but one thing I'm considering is copper plating below the water line. I'm also wondering what adjustments to various other parts of the ship would have to be made in order for me to double plank. Seems I'd be one layer of planking too thick for the bulwarks but otherwise can't think of a major issue.

Mike, the tool I was referring to may just be a lamp. Its the black cord and little box at the bow end. I suppose the difference in our kits and Dom's regarding the anchor rode is that ours is open hull and therefore you can run the rode all the way down through the decks. Closed hull you gotta coil on deck.
 
What are you doing about the bright shiny finish of all these brass fittings? Are you making an attempt to age them or make them look like iron (using blackening stuff)? I'm still up in the air. May just install everything (maybe not the cannons) bright and shiny and let age weather the brass naturally. I should live long enough to see them with a nice patina.

Dom, I looked carefully at the pictures and here's what I can make of them (re the hawse pipes)....the anchor rode (be it all chain or chain and rope) runs through the hawse pipes in the bulwarks to the windlass.  The excess then runs down through the main and lower decks and is coiled in the bilge between the forward and aft holding platforms.  Two things seem curious to me in this.  One, I can't see the hawse pipes for the main deck (not the bulwark pipes, but the pipes for the excess to run through) and I can't locate a part for them in the parts list.  Two, I would find it strange to stow anchor rode in the bilge.  Yet this is what the picture on the box shows pretty clearly.  More on this I guess when I get there.  Right now I'm just going to  stick parts 93 ("anchor hawse pipes") in their designated holes in the lower deck. 

CF, that's probably twice the output I will get in a sitting.  I'm hoping for two, just so I can alternate sides of the ship until the starboard side needs no more planks.

Great tip on how to use the push pins.  I wondered about that in looking at Mike's pictures.  I have also thought it might be a good idea to twist drill a pilot hole in the frame to make it easier to push in the pin.  I've tried one or two without a pilot and its a pretty hard push.

Well I guess I'll have to interpret "progressive offset" any way that looks logical.  Usually that takes me a couple days of looking at pictures, plans and trying to dry fit the next in line parts.  Nice pictures of your interior Mike.  What is the little electric tool over on the side?  Maybe you or Fifthace can answer this re bending the planks.  Many posts and articles discuss the technique of soaking the planks (sometimes as much as overnight) and then using heat (soldering iron, bending iron, clothes iron, all sorts of heat producing tools), bend the plank gradually into shape.  What I don't get is how to know what that shape is unless you either have built a replica of the framing itself (a jig more or less), or you bend the plank right on the model itself.  And then, where to you let this plank dry? You can't glue it on until it is dry.  I can come up with only one technique that takes all this into account; please tell me if I'm on the right track:  You soak the wood til its very bendable.  Then you bend it onto the frame wet, using the heat to encourage the bending.  You pin it in place and let it dry.  Then you remove the plank and start again, this time applying glue and pinning and clamping as you proceed.  Then you wait til that glue dries and do another plank.
 
Dom, thanks for the facts about the hawse pipes (and other metal fittings).  I thought they would have been bronze (not brass of course) and would acquire a greenish patina.  You're saying they were iron and turned black.  I hear what you're saying regarding the hawse pipes being in the bulwark.  I think they will be as well.  I just haven't reached that point.  But where the chain comes out of the deck they come from these two little brass button like fittings with the insey bitsey hole in them.

It goes without saying Mike that now I'm hating you. You're making great progress. The filler looks nice and like fifthace said, it should help a lot. You've got all your decks laid and even had time for a launch. I barely have time for a lunch. This morning I finished sanding the lower deck and putting a second coat of urethane on it. That's that for this deck. I'm working on the stern structure. I have 3 questions for you...
1. You mentioned that you broke a piece a couple times. Was it the wood for the bow bulwark? Did you have to make that piece from one long strip and bend it to fit? Mine comes in two pre cut pieces that butt up at the front. My real question on this is: my instructions and pictures note to "leave a progressive offset." I don't know if this means overlap the end of the deck or leave a bit of deck showing (for some purpose later, perhaps stanchions). Did you have to deal with this progressive offset?
2. Your filler I know is balsa. What size did you use? Did you fill the cavity entirely, and did you use some scientific method (as described for example in one of the planking articles) to measure and cut the layers to size so they'd fit in there snugly? I've been thinking about filler but can't get my head around the techniques of doing it. Thought maybe there is a simple way of gluing in material, then just sanding the protruding amount to the hull shape.
3. I forget what the third Q is, but here's one. I still have no answer to if the hawse pipes should remain shiny brass or get weathered somehow to look like bronze with a patina. Would soaking in vinegar do anything?
 
Keep up the good work. I'll post some progress soon. Seems I have more questions than answers.

I assume you mean you cut them with a little saw. That would solve my issue. Don't know why I never adopted that. I bought this nipper type tool which uses a razor blade (its on one of my pics) and it cuts really cleanly but like I said, hard to get a true right angle.
 
I went and checked the slope of the three masts. Dom was correct 66.7% of the time. At least what I could glean from my plans and a triangle, the foremast and main are perpendicular to the keel. It does look like the mizzen has about a 4 degree rake aft. I'm not worried about this. My thinking is this: it either doesn't matter at all or whatever rake needs to be put in can be done with rigging. On many sailboats nowadays (mine included, when I still owned her) you have an adjustable backstay which you tighten up when sailing upwind (unless your a lazy sailor like we were often times). This puts a slight rake aft into the main mast. I think this could apply to a mizzen mast as well, and from what I'm seeing on my model, the mast is tall enough to bend 4 degrees with no problem given tension on the backstay. All this assuming there is a backstay which may not be the case.
 
The "twist" I referred to is simply the mast being able to rotate in the hole. Your's is probably a nice tight fit that won't. Mine, I was afraid, would end up too loose (since I always seem to take off more material than necessary) and would do the twist. I would then have had to call the ship the "Chubby Checker."

Well you are looking pretty darn good; I hope I can catch up to you some day and have my Bounty (which my wife wants me to call 'Lil Walter' in honor of the gentleman who gave it to me and passed away two weeks ago) looking as good. Actually drilling the holes wasn't a big deal; took about 1 hour on the holding platform and 2 on the lower deck. I don't know what I'll be doing on the main deck but I'm thinking something more visible and authentic like actually filling the holes with trenails. Below decks won't be seen much. I guess I am lucky that the planking strips in my kit are perfectly 5 mm each. Made it quite easy to get straight lines. What I need to learn to do (or get a better tool that allows me to do it) is nip these buggers at perfect 90 degree angles. Seems like no matter how straight it looks in the cutter tool its off by a little. Is that what is known as the parallax view? My perspective on the cutting edge isn't 90 degrees so it only appears to be aligned right? I also have that problem when I try to file or sand down to a right angle. I don't know for sure if your solution to the round peg / square hole is what the kit and other builders would recommend. I'm just thinking aloud and offering up an idea for the future. I thought of doing that, and of course I'd have had to do it immediately upon installing those steps on the false keel. But here's my thought: a round peg in a round hole can twist. Even with glue down that hole I didn't want to risk it. And I wondered about how the real ship was stepped. On the boats I've owned there has always been blocking or the mast shape was not the same as the step. So I went ahead and cut (actually filed) tenons into the lowest 10 mm of the mast. Now it can't twist no matter how much strain is put on it. Now, after all the work, Dominic says the main and mizzen should rake back slightly. I didn't see that in the plans -- though I did look -- so now its back to look again and if necessary, make some more adjustments. Will I ever get to gluing in that lower deck?

Mike it looks like you did a good job on fairing the frames.  What tool(s) did you use?  When I get to that crucial step I'm wondering if a dremel with a sanding disk or barrel would be dangerously effective.  Maybe files?  Or just sandpaper.  Did you have to support the inside of the frames in order to apply enough pressure to make it work?

Mike, have you tested your masts lately?  I found (thankfully in time) that with all the manipulation I was doing to fit the second deck in that when I went to put the masts down through this second deck and then through the holding platform and into the mast step that I was off by a bit on two of them.  As I said, thankfully I haven't put down the second half of the second deck yet so I still have pretty good access to the holes that I have to work on.  I had to ream out the mizzen mast hole in the holding platform (used sandpaper wrapped around a chopstick), same for the main mast hole in the second deck (though with the second half of that deck not yet on it was only a half hole to ream out).  I am still having a hard time getting the masts to sit perpendicular in all planes to the keel, but what I think the final answer will be is that I am going to take a bit of wood off the last 8 mm of the mast itself.  I have to square off the mast down there anyway (does your model necessitate that?) to get the round peg (mast) into the rectangle hole (mast step).  So I think making the rectangle just a wee bit lopsided is going to get it into the hole.  This work has prevented me from completing the second deck which I thought would be done last Thursday.  Not to mention that the grass is now growing, shrubs are needing fertilizing, and I've put off re-varnishing my park bench all winter.  Hoping to resume work on Bounty right now.  Oh, and one more reason for posting....you're doing quite well it seems.  Keep it up and just keep coming up with solutions to the inevitable problems.  My kit suggested the pencil for the simulated trenails but I kept breaking the points.  So I have been drilling holes (#76 bit) and not even filling them.  Then letting the varnish (urethane) fill them.  I also cut them all close to size, then nipped them to exact size before laying each one down one by one.  I used white glue -- used a artist brush to spread it thinly on the ply first then on the strip.  One by one.  Very tedius but rewarding in the end.  The key is (I guess you know) to get the first one on perfect, then the rest just press up against that one.

Thanks all you dope heads for bringing me up to speed.  I just finished gluing in half of my lower deck (pictures will follow soon on my own build log) and if valium qualifies as dope, please send me some.  I knew the warpage of the ply was going to be my Achilles heel.  I had to use like 20 clothes pins, five C clamps and six weights (from my wife's knitting machine) to make the whole thing sit tight on the beams.  I was going to do both halves  at once but found it impossible cause I have clamps on the inside center line.  Probably better anyway to let it all dry and then make a go of the second half (the open side should be easer; more flexible).  I continue to wonder and ask: is there a tried and true method of flattening out a piece of warped ply?  I tried wetting and clamping between two pieces of flat wood.  No success.  Maybe not wet enough?

Good luck Mike. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you -- but not while I'm building.  Just curious:  cover the hull in tissue paper and dope?  What kind of dope?  Don't get arrested.  Today I will glue in my lower deck.  I know I've procrastinated too long on this.  Built a cradle yesterday, something I should have done on day 1.  Pretty crude but it works.  Anyway, enough computers and now for some fun.

I like your sense of humor. It will serve you well I think in the days and weeks to come. My wife and I were just poring over the pictures and plans that come with the kit and its very weird. The pictures on the huge box that it all comes it has something down there, whether or not its a deck or not is hard to tell. But the instructional photos show nothing more than a fwd/aft running beam that is fixed to the inner side of frames 8 and 9 (just forward of the holding well box. The picture shows a lot of barrels and bales heaped inside, resting only on the hull planking. I suppose this beam is to hold these barrels in (but they'll be glued). And in reality, I don't think these heavy barrels would have been allowed to sit just on the planking. But the plans show nothing; neither a deck or a beam. So just like you said, why make things more complicated than they already are. I'm going to move on with the work that I have in front of me and follow the plans/instructions as they've been written. Maybe someone with more naval history can provide an answer re the ballast cause I am still curious about that. And if they actually used something like stones (which they did), it would be easy enough to throw some pebbles in there.