Question: Dowels in the riders in the hold on the HMS Victory

[RolandR]

While studying pictures on the internet of the hold, I noticed, there are wood dowels randomly places in the deck riders. Where they added later during a restoration project after the ship was decommissioned , or was it done during the build?

Thanks

[Kenchington]

Without seeing the pictures you refer to, it is hard to be sure. However, where ship timbers have survived to be examined by archaeologists, they often have unexpectedly large numbers of treenails (which I assume is what you mean by "wood dowels") running in assorted directions. 

 

Big wooden ships were (and are) made of a whole lot of (relatively) small pieces fastened together and the fastenings are critical to keeping everything not just together but stiff and water-tight, despite the vigorous movements of a vessel tossed by waves. So there were lots of bolts and very many more treenails, even in a new ship -- with the treenails scattered about far more randomly than we see in models, so as to minimize splitting along the grain. Then more treenails would be added to tighten a ship as she aged and began to work, with even more when planks had to be removed and replaced. And then (though likely not in Victory) pieces of an old ship that had been broken up could be re-worked and included in a new vessel or a repair, with yet more treenails driven through.

 

Trevor

[RolandR]

Thanks for the answer.

I have only a link to the picture since I don't have the rights to re-publish the photo.

 

https://www.meisterdrucke.ie/fine-art-prints/Unbekannt/935869/Ballast-in-the-Hold-of-HMS-Victory,-2013.html

 

[amateur]

I don’t see what you try to tell us. The ridets are made from a number of pieces of timber, scarphed together and the scarf is secured with large dowels that are more or less evenly spaced. Or are those not the dowels you refer to?

 

Jan

Edited Tuesday at 06:05 AM by amateur

[RolandR]

Maybe I just see something that is not there. Thanks Jan.

[Kenchington]

There are treenails there but, to my eye, rather few. Some fasten the scarfs, some join the two parts (forward and aft members of a pair).

 

One neat detail is that there are thin boards on the upper face of each rider, presumably to take the wear-and-tear of feet and anything else placed on top of the major strength elements. I would have expected those boards to be fastened with small, iron nails, but there are treenails running through them into the riders.

 

Trevor

[RolandR]

Trevor,

I did not even notice the board. Who knows what we could find underneath the boards.

Thanks

[Kenchington]

Well that certainly shows plenty of fastenings! Bolts though, whereas the photo that Roland noticed certainly shows treenails.

 

Trevor

[RolandR]

I was wondering how a big ship can be hold to together by a few treenails.

Thanks everybody