sob
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Everything posted by sob
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yup - I had seen the language in McLeean's descriptions of there Stag Hound & Flying Cloud - I had not seen the specific language "the complex curving navel hoods " thanks Scott
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Clipp[er Fan said " the complex curving navel hoods described by Duncan McLean in more than one article." can you give a pointer to such an article? thanks Scott
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I think we will just have to agree to disagree - I think that engineers learn & evolve designs over time rather than "get it `right" the first time Scott
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of course I want 'remain as faithful as possible to Donald McKay's historically accurate vessels" your bow revisions do show " a more refined impressive and complete clipper prow" I just do not agree that there is reason to think that McKay's idea would have sprung forth on his first few ships quire a refined but, in the end, there is no actual data to show that either of us us correct in our views - so I'm going to leave it there but do keep up the very good work shown in this blog Scott
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I see no reason to doubt the structures you-all are talking about existed (as shown in the Glory photos) but I do not see any reason to think that they would look the same from when McKay first thought of them to the last ship
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ps - I fully think that just about all clipper ships, McKay's and others, had what had been in use for many years - "navel hoods" which were beefed up structures around the hawes holes and I expect that is what McLean was referring to as I mentioned a few posts ago - I do not think that the McKay structures would have been referred to as "navel hoods" anyway, we may be reaching a point of diminishing returns here
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https://www.sobco.com/ship_model/index.html see https://www.sobco.com/ship_model/fc/details/Flying_Cloud_Details.html for note on possible inaccurate description by McLean to be clear - I have no doubts that the structure on the bow of the Glory is what you describe as a strengthening structure but I have not seen any evidence that a structure of the same size or appearance was on the early McKay ships - it would be logical that McKay's idea for his hood evolved over time (as engineering usually does) so I do not know what a strengthening structure would have looked like on the Flying Cloud (particularly given the outline on the Mary McKay drawing (which was done quite a while after McKay had built his last clipper so there would have been no reason to still he hiding details) I do NOT want to pick a fight here but an exchange of ideas is useful Scott
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but , in any case, I do not think that it is right to call them "navel (or naval) hoods"
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I wish there was more evidence for them in the early McKay clippers as I mention on my website, some research has shown that McLean's descriptions of McKay's ships may not have told the whole story so that McKay's competitors would not know the details McKay wanted hidden but the hiding of this particular detail seems to have been rather successful (assuming you and Rich are correct) at this point it seems to be different opinions by different people Scott
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thanks
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at this point it would take too much work to drop the visible windlass in my Flying Cloud so it will just have to represent the common opinion of how the windlass was placed
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having the forecastle floor lower than the deck makes a lot of sense - having only 6 feet of headroom would be hard and would only allow double bunks which might not be enough for a full watch
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here is another drawing of the EW windlass
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Re: drawings in the Great Republic booklet - since the booklet was basically an add for McKay (as mentioned above) it seems to me that it is highly unlikely that McKay was not in the approval process for the drawings
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note that he Emerson Walker company was founded in 1870 and patented a windlass the same year so that particular device would not have been around in the 1850s when the McKay ships were built ( unless it was a different Emerson Walker (a US based one) see https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Emerson,_Walker_and_Co
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that sure would have taken up a lot of room in the forecastle which, according to McLean, housed a full watch of the crew
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1:96 ?
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my guess is that McLean did not do any of the drawings - I've not seen any reason to think he was a draftsperson he was a good friend of McKay (it is said) and I've assumed the drawings in the booklet came from McKay or were commissioned by McKay. The booklet was basically a advertisement for the ship and McKay so it seems quite likely that KcKay had a big hand in it - maybe McLean wrote the text (it is in his style) but I expect that McKay reviewed & approved the final text
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nice!
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agree about double acting capstan on forecastle
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ps - if someone is interested - the entry point for the McLean booklet on the Great Republic is https://www.sobco.com/ship_model/Great_Republic/index.html I posted a pdf of the booklet and pdfs of each of the drawings which claim to show details of the construction of the ship and was published about the same time was the ship was built (and before she burned) Since I have found no evidence that McLean was a draftsman I assume the drawings were done by someone under the supervision of McKay himself.
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ps - the drawing in the 1853 McLean booklet on the Great Republic shows that the ship had wooden capstans see http://www.sobco.com/ship_model/Great_Republic/Great_Republic_McLean_plate_6.pdf the capstan itself
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re: patented capstan & Flying Cloud see https://www.sobco.com/ship_model/fc/details/capstans.htm in particular "The Monthly Nautical Magazine of May 1855 says that Allyn's patent power capstans[7] had been furnished to the Flying Cloud within “the past year”[8], implying that the original capstans had been replaced. That leaves mahogany and brass, something McKay was using around the time he built the Flying Cloud, as the likely materials for the Flying Cloud’s original capstans. "
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a different topic but may be interesting - someone mentioned that Lars Bruzelius's site was now offline two things: 1/ the Internet archive archived his site and you can get the contents at https://web.archive.org/web/20240531215650/http://www.bruzelius.info/Nautica/Nautica.html 2/ I downloaded the Boston Daily Atlas files and have put them up on my website https://www.sobco.com/ship_model/BDA/BDA.index.html Scott
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