Cap'n Rat Fink

Finished 4 frame blanks and cut 4 frames in total. 
Last blanks were laminated using really strong clamps, that squeeze the glue under blanks like the previous clamps were not able to do.

 
Surprisingly, I cannot find any difference in lamination quality when I look on a cut frames. Thickness and consistency of lamination looks the same. Probably I was overthinking it
What turned out to be more important is an edge joint of a blank pieces - they should fit really tight, my table saw can't give such a clean cut, so on a last few blanks I used a belt sander to make sure that joints are perfectly tight. And that is visible on a frames.
 
However, I will need to trash one frame. It is all due to the ugly grey spots on a frame blank stock. When sanded, they look even uglier. On a right side of a photo - healthy swiss pear, on a left side - smoker's pear
 

 
Seriously, why are they included in the timbering package? What am I expected to do with such wood? It is not suitable for a modelling, I will just trash all the wood with that grey areas, and there are quite a lot of planks with that defect
Or I am being picky? Don't think so, the defects in the wood are striking. 

Thanks for all the help!
Applied much more glue this time, glue was pre-dried (small can left opened for 24hr).
Looks much better, warping is minimal, and I used some extra clamps, stronger ones.
As it turned out, the lamination was ok - no sign of gaps or warping anywhere when the frame is cut.
 
Cut the test frame just to verify the process. It would not be installed on a model, the goal is only to practice.
 

 

 
First question: what is the proper margin, how far should I cut from the lines? If I cut too far away - frames would be either fat, or there would be an enormous amount of sanding later on (and with too much sanding the final shape of a frame would not be close to a proper lines). If I cut too close - frames would be too small after sanding. What is the golden rule of thumb?
 
Here is the side of a frame. Glue layer is slightly visible, but I guess that is expected? Or not? 
 

 
A lot of sanding and scraping to bring the frame down to desired 7.2mm thickness.
Note to readers - avoid using a heavy grits, even if you need to remove a lot. Sanded with 60 grit and got some deep scratches, very hard to remove. Good that it is a test frame, would be quite sad otherwise
 

 
And the end result is:
 

 

When sanded with a fine grits (1200 => 2000), the colour difference between various part of the frame is striking. Not sure what to do with that.. Well, in the end it is not plastic, so it is quite expected from wood to have a different colour naturally
 
Please post any critics, it is very important to get the technology right on a test frames. 
I am posting detailed process pictures hoping that somebody will spot a mistakes and share a good advice before I will produce 40 frames using a wrong technology

Started to make a frame blanks. Discovered that my table saw is not precise enough, but luckily frame blanks do not require a lot of precision.
 
First - edge gluing on a flat surface, with a blueprint under the glass to make sure that everything is assembled correctly:

 
Second - laminating. Many thanks to Mark for making a good thread where hidden traps of lamination are discussed. I used a thick plexiglass and a lot of clamps:

 
Even with a small layer of glue, that is pre-dried, wood warped a bit:

 
But after 10 hours it looks close to normal, no warping:

 
But I'm worried that there is a consistent small gap between the layers:

 
To reduce the gap, will need to apply more glue - but that will case even more warping.
Or try to polish the surface of blanks even more before gluing (I sanded them with 240 and 380 grits)
 
By the way, quality of wood for blanks is, khm, questionable. Width varies a lot (might be ok, it is just blanks, but makes it harder to cut with an accurate angle on a tablesaw). Thickness is also very random, will need a careful thickness sanding when frames would be cut. Colour of that swiss pear is also very different, from very pale to bright pink. The most strange thing is that all laser cut parts are much darker than planks for frame blanks, but they are expected to be same wood (swiss pear). Luckily, this time colour difference is actually good, I was worried that frames would be too dark. And having a darker keel and keelson might be ok. But it would be good to have a consistent colour of the wood inside one package.
 
Plus a lot of planks have a pretty visible grey areas, around half of the planks are affected. Worried that they might be visible on a frames. Like this:

 
I understand that it is perfectly natural for the wood, but that's the whole point of buying a milled wood for modelling - it should not have such imperfections... Or I might be just spoiled by a wood package from Hobbymill

Brian, it is 55cm (21.6in). Good size if you do not have a workshop.

 
Grant, yes, I believe that mutual respect to hobbies of each other is a mandatory condition to achieve a harmony at home

Finally finished most of the renovation works in the apartment, and here is my modelling corner!

All the tools are in a large drawer, only most popular ones are stored in the table itself.
The band saw is hidden under the table, it would be rarely used.
The drawing is a Cromwell plan from NMM, but it is purely for decoration - Hahn plans are much more detailed.
 
Since my wife occupied another corner for her knitting stuff, it is a time to rename the "living room" into a "hobby room". But hey, isn't hobby a big part of our life?

(Yep, I know that furniture is quite not in same style, will slowly fix that over time)
 
 
So now I can finally start cutting the frame blanks! Finally! Time to make a first bucket of sawdust

Modelling is temporarily on pause - was busy buying and moving into a new apartment. Now busy renovating it
Used modelling tools to make a balcony, does it count?

 
Next on a list - make a modelling table, so I can start my build!

Speaking of a fully framed models - a friend of mine visited an interesting project today - 1:1 reconstruction of Poltava, 1712 ship, partially designed by Russian tsar, Peter I, who studied shipbuilding in Holland. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_ship_of_the_line_Poltava_(1712)
The site is located in St.Petersburg, Russia.
Pretty interesting to see, looks very close to that build logs, and nearly-round shape of the hull make it look like Triton
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And here is what you get inside the timbering set from The Lumberyard.
 
Various planking and frame wood. Notice that wood color is pretty varying, so needs to be sorted.
Framing, keel, deck beams/knees would be in swiss pear, planking - boxwood, fittings - mixed. I also got beech, walnut and cherry for some parts, but not sure if I'll use them. Will see!

 
Laser cut parts. Planning to make my own deck beams with a cute scarfs, instead of using these. But they are a good backup, if my scarfs will turn into failure:

 
And plans, lots of them!

 
Don't mind the small size of the photos, it's 11.5 kg of wood!
Let's unpack the blueprints and make some sawdust!

As Mark...hope n pray you have a good recovery.
 
Mario

Hi all, I thought I should give an explanation of what happened rather than just disappearing.  My Mary Rose project in on hold now for an indefinite period.  Sometime in March I fell on ice and hit my head hard on my cement driveway.  Now after 3 weeks in the hospital and 2 brain surgeries later I am home recuperating.  I start physical therapy this week to try and recover my fine motor skills.  Hope to be back in the saddle eventually but it may be several months away.
 
john

Hi Steve, the bow and stern sections are pretty strong.  The mid-ship portion is now.  I spent some time today gluing extra battens to the frames to make sure it's strong and won't shift while I am working on the interior.  It's important that it not shift around at all while I am working on the insides or it might not fit back in the framing jig to join the three sections together. 
 
For beveling the frames I did a rough shaping of them first but the final sanding  won't be done till the sections are joined together. 

 
 

At last the framing is pretty much done.  The three hull segments come apart and go back together in the framing jig.  Next step detailing the interior of the mid-ship section
 
 
 
 

Long time between updates but I have been working steadily, just slow.  I am going to go ahead with making the hull in three pieces.  I will do much of the interior of the hull,  hanging knees and riders while it is in 3 pieces.  then put it back in the building jig and join the pieces with the planking.  fingers crossed on that.
 
So far I have the bow and stern portion made and rough sanded and I was delighted to find they can be removed from the building jig and then put back on with no trouble whatever.  The next job will be to finish the center portion, then the fun work of detailing the interior begins. 
 

 

 

time for another update, I have all the frame blanks made, and have cut and fit the major body plan stations, now I will put the bevel on each frame before cutting the inside face of the frames.
 
 
 

 
I just had to see what it was going to look like with the inside edge of the frames cut, so I did the first four midship frames, nothing has been glued yet.  I am going to wait to glue anything till I am satisfied I have a fair hull.
 

 
 
 
 
 
 

well progress has been slow but I think the upside down jig will work out good.
 

 
 
nothing is glued yet, I plan to get all the frames done and rough shaped before I cut the insides of the frame and begin gluing things up.

Well back to work on Mary Rose after a little vacation.
When I got back home the hull looked even worse to me than it did before I went on vacation.   I am almost glad I have to start over, and I am sure it will come out better this time.  I have been thinking I will try doing the re-build in an upside down Harold Hahn type jig. 
So far I have re-made the keel/stem/sternpost and have make the sloltted base for the build jig. 
 
One idea that I am toying with is building the hull in 3 sections.  Midship section, Sterncastle and Forecastle.  I am thinking it would be easier to detail the interior of the hull with the end of the section open, then join them together.   Any thoughts on that? 
 
 
 

 

What a revolting development this is
Today I took Mary Rose out of the building jig and took it into the house to look at on top of the cabinet it is going to go on.  When I sat it down on the kitchen table I had a view of it that let me see it was lopsided.  there is more ship on one side of the keel  than the other.  sigh.  I have to decide what to do.  finish a crooked hull or start over.  Right now I am leaning toward starting over.  It may come out for the best I will do it differently next time and it may not take as long to re-do everything as it did the first time.
 

just a quick update, I have started gluing frames on,  things are going ok but slow.  I am hoping to get all the frames glued on by next Saturday, then starts the fun of detailing the inside.
 

ok, all the damage from before has been repaired and I am pretty much back to where I was a week ago.  Rather than start gluing the forward frames on again though I am going to get the stern pre-fit just in case something else goes wrong. 
 

 
 
 
Today I received my first order from Fredericus Max that I put in for figures and I am delighted with them!  The cast metal figures are very good but the resin chess player figures I ordered just blew me away,  They are a bit hard for me to photograph with my cheapo camera, the pics on Fredericus Max website are much better but I couldn't resist posting one.
 

 
Web site for Fredericus Max: http://www.fredericus-rex.de/Valdemar-Miniaturen/?XTCsid=cdascfi2hv8a40r4nubmr3o9t1
 

Well I am making one step forward and two steps back lately.  I have been putting off gluing frames to the keel for fear that I had forgotten something to be done before adding frames.  I got several of the forward frames cut and sanded with their proper bevel.  This was an interesting point when I got the bevel sanded in I could really see the shape of the bow,  Mary Rose in not a bluff bowed ship, she really has quite a fine entrance.
 

 
Finally yesterday I got up the nerve to begin gluing frames on, got the first 6 glued and and discovered I had made a mistake in height location for either the first three or the last three.  Anyway wound up tearing them all off and will have to re-make them.  If you happened to notice a blue glow in the sky last night that wasn't the northern lights, it was the glow from all the bad language that accompanied tearing the frames off. 
 

 

 
All my previous models have been small workboats so Mary Rose is a new challenge to me.  I hope I am going about framing the forecastle correctly.  Any one have any suggestions?

Working on the keel stem & sternpost the shortcuts begin right off.
 
Quoting from Peter Marsden's book Mary Rose Your Noblest Shippe : "The cross section of the keel varies throughout it's length.  It's midship portion has an uneven hexagonal shape whereas fore and aft of this it becomes deeper and narrower with rebates for stealer planks cut into the upper part of it's sides".
 
hmmmmm.... ok, at the bow and stern it is rectangular as you move amidships it becomes hexagonal in shape that changes over the length of the keel.   Well,  Chidoken did it for his cross section.
 
I thought about it overnight.  Not whether I would try it, but if I should switch to something easier.  That made my eyes go crossed just reading the description.  I knew I didn't want to try that.
By the next morning I decided that as I am modeling the whole ship the keel shape isn't going to be that noticeable a detail for the amount of effort it was going to require and I made the keel assembly as would on any other model.
 

 
Next up are the frames.
 
Although there is a great deal of information on Mary Rose there are still many questions.  After reading through the information I had I am still not entirely sure of the framing arrangement.  So rather then display the framing by leaving one side unplanked I will just have viewing ports on one side to enable the interior to be seen and leave off strips of ceiling
so that the framing is an interesting bit of detail behind the ceiling planks. 
 
OK, to get started with the framing.
The plans showed the frames to be fairly evenly sided and spaced.
 

 
But on drawing on page 105 of Mary Rose Your Noblest Shippe show something far different.  I will use this drawing as the basis for my frames sided dimensions and location,  of course forward and aft of the diagram will just be a guess.
 

 
Mary Rose's framing was unique for a vessel of her time.  An article I found online gave a good explanation of this.
The Structures of Atlantic Shipbuilding in the 16th Century, by Brad Lowen:
"In the case of the Mary Rose, the concept of tying each frame timber to a specific element in the frames design had become impracticable because the arcs were too long for the available timber supply.  In particular, long enough first futtocks could not be found to cover the bilge arc, the futtock arc and overlap with the clamps at the first deck.  The solution adopted by the builders was in some ways a precursor to the double-sawn frame.  Instead of overlapping the the floor timber and the first futtock, these pieces were laid end-to-end, and a second timber laid between the frames in order to reinforce the area of the end-to-end joint".
 
This illustration from Marsden's book shows this and the hexagonal keel.
 

 
So far I have sawn and sanded several of the midship frames and most of the frame blanks for the rest of the hull, haven't begun to glue any on yet though.
 

 

 
 
 

This will be my first attempt at a build log, hope it comes out looking ok.
Mary Rose has been on my have to model list for a long time but recently Chidokan, on the forum, and I have talked each other into tackling this project.  Chidokan will be building a very accurate cross section, mine will be a whole hull model with short cuts for ease of modeling.
 
I will be using the plans set by David Meagher that I have enlarged to 1:72 scale.  What I have in mind is to build one side completely planked but leave the other side partially planked with some view holes cut into the side to see the interior.  I would like to include lighting and a crew as well.  As for the exterior finish, I love the painting on the cover of "Mary Rose, Your Nobelest Shippe".  If I can make decent sails, then, yeah those too. This is without doubt the most ambitious model I have ever tackled.  Prior to this I have my models have been mostly small workboats.
 

 
While looking on the internet for crew figures I stumbled across this site:
http://www.valdemarminiatures.com/default.asp?Site=Info&page=49
They have the best figures I have ever seen and will be perfect for the Mary Rose, just being able to use these figures will be a treat.  They are a bit on the pricey side though and I will wait to order them till I am sure that I can pull this build off.
 

 
 
The Plans:

 
 

 

 

 

 
 
My research material:
 

 

 
Also an article I downloaded from the internet with some very useful information on framing Mary Rose:  The structures of tAtlantic shipbuilding the the 16th century.  by Brad Loewen
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Hi All,
A small update. I wanted to show you how I scratch built my planks in detail.....



BFN Mario

BATTEAU UPDATE TIME HAS FINALLY COME. BOY THIS HAS BEEN A BUSY MONTH FAMILY WISE BUT I AM BACK AT IT AGAIN


BFN
MARIO