Talos

I don't think they could mount them on the gundeck. That would be just above the water line and way too close to open in any kind of weather. I think if purchased it would more likely get the sides built-up and used as an open-decked sloop like the aforementioned Maryland and Patapsco. That whole raised/sunken quarterdeck cabin thing, where it is in between the main deck and gun deck, is so merchant-y too. Not a typical warship and an enigma.

I don't think they could mount them on the gundeck. That would be just above the water line and way too close to open in any kind of weather. I think if purchased it would more likely get the sides built-up and used as an open-decked sloop like the aforementioned Maryland and Patapsco. That whole raised/sunken quarterdeck cabin thing, where it is in between the main deck and gun deck, is so merchant-y too. Not a typical warship and an enigma.

I don't think they could mount them on the gundeck. That would be just above the water line and way too close to open in any kind of weather. I think if purchased it would more likely get the sides built-up and used as an open-decked sloop like the aforementioned Maryland and Patapsco. That whole raised/sunken quarterdeck cabin thing, where it is in between the main deck and gun deck, is so merchant-y too. Not a typical warship and an enigma.

She is unusual in that her gun-ports are above the level above the quarter galleries, instead of at that level, which would never have been done in a naval-built vessel, but was seen on paintings of merchant ships at the time. I think that the above "18-gun ship" was a merchantman with good sailing qualities that the navy was considering purchasing. Had they done so, ports would have been cut at the gun deck level, to lower the center of gravity, and those above would have been removed. On many merchant ships, cargo would have been stowed at the level of a naval ship's lower gun-deck.
 
I getting sick of writing 'gundeck' and having auto-correct substitute 'gunlock'!

That plan's always been a weird one. It's basically a merchant-style vessel (but much more heavily-armed) with that unarmed cargo deck and the quarterdeck cabin mounted like that. Really is an oddball in Chapelle's book.

Wait, that's supposed to be the Adams? It seems rather small for that, 106' LBP and only 20 guns...
 
I've always thought it was a neat plan though. Like an American equivalent to a British post ship. The details also remind me of those of the John Adams. Chapelle describes the plan as being lost after he copied it, I wonder if it's since been found again.
 
 

That plan's always been a weird one. It's basically a merchant-style vessel (but much more heavily-armed) with that unarmed cargo deck and the quarterdeck cabin mounted like that. Really is an oddball in Chapelle's book.

I suspect she was a purchase and then the upper works would have probably been closed up and she would have looked more like a proper sloop. That is for the 2+ years she was in service

And the lines look very much like a fuller version of the 6th rate....would not be at all surprised if they had the same designer. With 18 ports she could plausibly be the Trumbull? If any of the vessels built for the navy at all-being a purchase certainly seems possible!

That plan's always been a weird one. It's basically a merchant-style vessel (but much more heavily-armed) with that unarmed cargo deck and the quarterdeck cabin mounted like that. Really is an oddball in Chapelle's book.

It's entirely possible. I'll throw together a comparison of their lines later. I should note that Silverstone rates Merrimack as a 24-gunner, with a 9-pdr main battery of 20 guns and 8 x 6-pdrs on the quarterdeck/forecastle. Both could fit that ship.
 
EDIT: The 460 ton figure Silverstone gives for Merrimack are also similar to RN 20-gun ships in Winfield like the Sphinx class of 1773.

Wait, that's supposed to be the Adams? It seems rather small for that, 106' LBP and only 20 guns...
 
I've always thought it was a neat plan though. Like an American equivalent to a British post ship. The details also remind me of those of the John Adams. Chapelle describes the plan as being lost after he copied it, I wonder if it's since been found again.
 
 

It's entirely possible. I'll throw together a comparison of their lines later. I should note that Silverstone rates Merrimack as a 24-gunner, with a 9-pdr main battery of 20 guns and 8 x 6-pdrs on the quarterdeck/forecastle. Both could fit that ship.
 
EDIT: The 460 ton figure Silverstone gives for Merrimack are also similar to RN 20-gun ships in Winfield like the Sphinx class of 1773.

Wait, that's supposed to be the Adams? It seems rather small for that, 106' LBP and only 20 guns...
 
I've always thought it was a neat plan though. Like an American equivalent to a British post ship. The details also remind me of those of the John Adams. Chapelle describes the plan as being lost after he copied it, I wonder if it's since been found again.
 
 

It's entirely possible. I'll throw together a comparison of their lines later. I should note that Silverstone rates Merrimack as a 24-gunner, with a 9-pdr main battery of 20 guns and 8 x 6-pdrs on the quarterdeck/forecastle. Both could fit that ship.
 
EDIT: The 460 ton figure Silverstone gives for Merrimack are also similar to RN 20-gun ships in Winfield like the Sphinx class of 1773.

Wait, that's supposed to be the Adams? It seems rather small for that, 106' LBP and only 20 guns...
 
I've always thought it was a neat plan though. Like an American equivalent to a British post ship. The details also remind me of those of the John Adams. Chapelle describes the plan as being lost after he copied it, I wonder if it's since been found again.
 
 

Thanks, Gerald. I hope you like it. Your threads on Constellation and Macedonian (I) were really great. I've always been interested in this ship and she gets a short-shift and overshadowed by the original British frigate and then the razee'd sloop. Even books like de Kay's Chronicles of the Frigate Macedonian don't speak very highly of her.
 
One thing I'm still trying to find is a source for the "original intended armament" of 32-pdrs and 24-pdr carronades before she received the same 18-pdr armament as Constellation. Chapelle and a few other authors talk about it.
 
Sean
 

This is a preview for a thread I'll write on the frigate Macedonian (II) sometime. I liked how it came out, so I couldn't resist posting it. It's an overlay of Chapelle's plans for Macedonian before and after she was cut down and there's some interesting changes and similarities. The frigate is in green, the sloop in purple.
 
Changes:
Head reshaped and extended, bowsprit rake changed, reshaped stem
Gun deck gunports reduced from 15 to 13, ports at the bow, stern, and amidships are in the same place
Foremast relocated aft, rake of masts adjusted
New rudder
Bulwarks cut down, of course
New quarter galleries (not drawn yet, plan was lacking them, will used Sloop Constellation's old galleries as a base)
Higher waterline despite the reduced upper works
(Not visible) Removal of additional heavy timbering bow reinforcement for Antarctic use during US Exploring Expedition, probably source of her sailing issues
 
 
Macedonian was a 2nd-class frigate and carried the same armament as Constellation. Before the new-generation 32-pdr standardization of the 1840s, it was:
 
Gun deck: 28 x 18-pdrs (8', 38cwt)
Spar deck: 2 x 18-pdrs (9'2", 40cwt), 16 x 32-pdr carronades (4'1", 21cwt)
Total 1480cwt
 
Afterwards it was:
Gun deck: 4 x 8" shell guns (8'4", 53cwt), 22 x 32-pdrs (8', 42cwt) (this armament requires either filled bridle ports or a permanent filling of the stern ports)
Spar deck: 2 x 8" shell guns (8'4", 53cwt), 8 x 32-pdr carronades (4'1", 21cwt)
Total 1410cwt
 
 

This is a preview for a thread I'll write on the frigate Macedonian (II) sometime. I liked how it came out, so I couldn't resist posting it. It's an overlay of Chapelle's plans for Macedonian before and after she was cut down and there's some interesting changes and similarities. The frigate is in green, the sloop in purple.
 
Changes:
Head reshaped and extended, bowsprit rake changed, reshaped stem
Gun deck gunports reduced from 15 to 13, ports at the bow, stern, and amidships are in the same place
Foremast relocated aft, rake of masts adjusted
New rudder
Bulwarks cut down, of course
New quarter galleries (not drawn yet, plan was lacking them, will used Sloop Constellation's old galleries as a base)
Higher waterline despite the reduced upper works
(Not visible) Removal of additional heavy timbering bow reinforcement for Antarctic use during US Exploring Expedition, probably source of her sailing issues
 
 
Macedonian was a 2nd-class frigate and carried the same armament as Constellation. Before the new-generation 32-pdr standardization of the 1840s, it was:
 
Gun deck: 28 x 18-pdrs (8', 38cwt)
Spar deck: 2 x 18-pdrs (9'2", 40cwt), 16 x 32-pdr carronades (4'1", 21cwt)
Total 1480cwt
 
Afterwards it was:
Gun deck: 4 x 8" shell guns (8'4", 53cwt), 22 x 32-pdrs (8', 42cwt) (this armament requires either filled bridle ports or a permanent filling of the stern ports)
Spar deck: 2 x 8" shell guns (8'4", 53cwt), 8 x 32-pdr carronades (4'1", 21cwt)
Total 1410cwt
 
 

This is a preview for a thread I'll write on the frigate Macedonian (II) sometime. I liked how it came out, so I couldn't resist posting it. It's an overlay of Chapelle's plans for Macedonian before and after she was cut down and there's some interesting changes and similarities. The frigate is in green, the sloop in purple.
 
Changes:
Head reshaped and extended, bowsprit rake changed, reshaped stem
Gun deck gunports reduced from 15 to 13, ports at the bow, stern, and amidships are in the same place
Foremast relocated aft, rake of masts adjusted
New rudder
Bulwarks cut down, of course
New quarter galleries (not drawn yet, plan was lacking them, will used Sloop Constellation's old galleries as a base)
Higher waterline despite the reduced upper works
(Not visible) Removal of additional heavy timbering bow reinforcement for Antarctic use during US Exploring Expedition, probably source of her sailing issues
 
 
Macedonian was a 2nd-class frigate and carried the same armament as Constellation. Before the new-generation 32-pdr standardization of the 1840s, it was:
 
Gun deck: 28 x 18-pdrs (8', 38cwt)
Spar deck: 2 x 18-pdrs (9'2", 40cwt), 16 x 32-pdr carronades (4'1", 21cwt)
Total 1480cwt
 
Afterwards it was:
Gun deck: 4 x 8" shell guns (8'4", 53cwt), 22 x 32-pdrs (8', 42cwt) (this armament requires either filled bridle ports or a permanent filling of the stern ports)
Spar deck: 2 x 8" shell guns (8'4", 53cwt), 8 x 32-pdr carronades (4'1", 21cwt)
Total 1410cwt
 
 

This is a preview for a thread I'll write on the frigate Macedonian (II) sometime. I liked how it came out, so I couldn't resist posting it. It's an overlay of Chapelle's plans for Macedonian before and after she was cut down and there's some interesting changes and similarities. The frigate is in green, the sloop in purple.
 
Changes:
Head reshaped and extended, bowsprit rake changed, reshaped stem
Gun deck gunports reduced from 15 to 13, ports at the bow, stern, and amidships are in the same place
Foremast relocated aft, rake of masts adjusted
New rudder
Bulwarks cut down, of course
New quarter galleries (not drawn yet, plan was lacking them, will used Sloop Constellation's old galleries as a base)
Higher waterline despite the reduced upper works
(Not visible) Removal of additional heavy timbering bow reinforcement for Antarctic use during US Exploring Expedition, probably source of her sailing issues
 
 
Macedonian was a 2nd-class frigate and carried the same armament as Constellation. Before the new-generation 32-pdr standardization of the 1840s, it was:
 
Gun deck: 28 x 18-pdrs (8', 38cwt)
Spar deck: 2 x 18-pdrs (9'2", 40cwt), 16 x 32-pdr carronades (4'1", 21cwt)
Total 1480cwt
 
Afterwards it was:
Gun deck: 4 x 8" shell guns (8'4", 53cwt), 22 x 32-pdrs (8', 42cwt) (this armament requires either filled bridle ports or a permanent filling of the stern ports)
Spar deck: 2 x 8" shell guns (8'4", 53cwt), 8 x 32-pdr carronades (4'1", 21cwt)
Total 1410cwt
 
 

From what I've seen, 1st cutter was usually the largest of the cutters. 1st as in best and biggest, in the same way the best bower anchor is the biggest one. It appears like that in the various later boat dimensions listed in Chapelle from the post-war Navy.

From what I've seen, 1st cutter was usually the largest of the cutters. 1st as in best and biggest, in the same way the best bower anchor is the biggest one. It appears like that in the various later boat dimensions listed in Chapelle from the post-war Navy.

Sure, got plenty of stuff on Pawnee. That plan is later in the war when she had a broadside battery. As-built she had four x XI-inch Dahlgren cannons on pivot mounts, two on either side of the ship. She had a very unusual hull as you can see, but one of the most unusual parts is missing from that plan, but I've seen it in others with the original pivots. The keel is actually recessed inwards with a concave hull shape down there. If you have Canney's The Old Steam Navy vol 1, it's in there on page 84.
 
As for pics....

How will these do for now?

Actually, Wasp (and Syren and Argus) were all brigs. Wasp and Hornet were converted to ship-rigs and then of course the follow-on Wasp and Argus-types were all ship-rigged.