Jump to content

Matrim

NRG Member
  • Posts

    1,379
  • Joined

  • Last visited

About Matrim

  • Birthday 05/14/1971

Profile Information

  • Gender
    Male
  • Location
    Leicestershire, England

Recent Profile Visitors

2,564 profile views
  1. Meh. Just when you start working another lockdown appears to slow you up. I've admittedly not stopped as I had to redo the keel after a process mistake. The Mark III keel went fine though so this post is to cover the nails/sizing and false keel stages. Once I had the joint on piece 6 done (and the process mistake was here. I had to remove the extra 'meat' so it was exact size top to bottom as otherwise when I attach to the rest of the keel it is too large). Anyway on the Mark III version I adjusted the plans so I cut it out at the correct height. This was then joined to the rest of the keel in the fashion described above and I then started on the bolts. I probably mentioned earlier that I went the bamboo path this time - after firstly this will not be visible and secondly it allows me to thickness post bolt addition. To simplify matters I generated a bolt plan in turbo cad and then copied and pasted until I had twenty or so on a sheet. I could then print this, cut off the template (which showed the rabbett so could be the correct way up) and pasted it to the relevant joints (making very certain that the rabbett was at the correct side). As so Now I did not need to bother with exact movements of the mill and could just drill through with a microsd board drill at the correct size (I went for 1mm which is actually far larger than the correct diameter of the scale bolts BUTTTTTT these bolts were clenched by hammering each end so would expand making them larger visually, this also allowed a thicker bamboo treenail so more lateral strength in the joints. Also (again) no one will see there.) The drill was not quite large enough to make it through so I then switched to a pin drill to finish the last 2-3mm - at that point the rest of the hole provided a decent guide so it would be hard for the bit to wander. Not bad. Next up I wanted the keel on BEFORE I thicknessed the sides to length OR the actual length for that matter. Thicknessers can cause a 'bump' at each end of a piece of wood worked on (if unlucky and your attention wanders) so if this happened it would be later removed when thicknessed to length. The other advantage is that the false keel and keel get side thicknessed simultaneously so wont end up with even marginal differences. This is also where cutting the false keel to the same start width as the actual helps as you don't have to worry about overlap. Here is me attempting to ensure false keel pieces do not have their joints at the keels joints and here is a standard clamp shot. I did two false keel pieces a day (one before work and one after) as the risk of them sliding due to the blackened glue is high and I have made mistakes in the past trying to do all such types of work at the same time. After the keel was on I could thickness to the sides. Here I was very careful to move the thicknesser two notches then thickness then move two notches and to repeat on the other side mainly so my piece 6 boxing joint would not be heavily out of place. After this I used the disc sander to thickness the front 'ledge' to the correct size before using a very long ruler (two metres?) to get the rear end of the keel to the correct size. To get the angle I went back to the plans which had this marked already (see the left size of piece one) I could then cut this out (marking the correct side with the angle first so I didn't accidentally use the sissored side.. The angle was done on the disc sander but I did use a scroll saw to remove some of the excess as sanding produces more dust than I like even with a decent extractor and mask on. It's not easy to see but you can see the line of the false keel running all the way through. So happily the keel/false keel unit is done. I used cherry for the false keel (as opposed to the apple I am using elsewhere) for no particular reason (false keels in real life were a different wood to the main frame). Now I have this done and I am happy with it it should provide a stable foundation for the rest of the ship. If something goes wrong (which it will) with a later piece then I wont have to restart from scratch. Here is an unexciting shot of the keel in place. and finally here is a close up of the correct sized keel/false keel showing both the bolts and a false keel joint. Next up I will probably start on the stem. Only because it is easier to fit without the next section of the keel in place. Thanks for reading this far and happy modelling!
  2. I use two types myself. Tiny brass nails that I attach using a push stick (the nail fits in the end of the tool and you place it against the plank and push and it both holds and pushes the nail in). This is only for the under later of planking (usually soft limewood of similar). The pusher isn't neccessary but it hurts much less pushing them in. Since a picture speaks more than a thousand words here is the first layer of planking going on the Bounty (these pins come with the kit and can be bought separately from Caldercraft. For the outside planking I tend to use slightly larger nails with those large plastic colourful sections to hold on to. These do not (ever) get pushed into the planks but get pushed into the underlayer of planking with the plastic top pushed into the plank I am trying to hold. And another picture to show better what is being said..
  3. Thanks guys. It is nice how you learn more the capabilities of the tools you are using with experimentation. I also like the Sherline because I am totally in control and I dont feel at risk (I always feel at risk when using the table saw which is a much scarier tool)
  4. Thanks all, I have just finished gluing parts 1 to 5 of the keel together with slightly coloured glue and then thicknessed the top and bottom to the correct target size. Keel joint shot with an extreme close up That will do nicely.. Next up I am starting tomorrow on drilling the keel joint bolts. As ever I have changed my process for that slightly to hopefully reduce my chances of destroying all the work I have done so far..
  5. I'd like to put up a post with some work on something that isn't the keel. But this won't be it. Perhaps I should rename the log to ' Scratch building the Amphion's Keel..a lot' As I said in my last update I was considering another try as I was not quite happy with the process and how close to actual size the pieces were. What follows will move to heights of detail to challenge even the most interested reader. So if you've had enough of the Keel then I recommend you await a future post (though there is a little historical paragraph at the very bottom). One of my favourite sayings concerning WW2 and design was that English craftmanship consisted of making a round peg fit a square hole. German craftmanship consisted in making 30 different shaped pegs fit 30 identically different shaped holes perfectly and American craftmanship consisted of making a square peg fit a square hole 300 times a minute. It was used somewhere to describe the issues the various combatant states had with their design processes and vehicles in particular. With regard to this build I would prefer it to move closer to the American method so refined my 'process' to remove as many issue sources as possible. Step 1 - Cut list 10 pieces to eventually represent keel parts 1-5 9.6*9.6mm, 4 pieces to eventually represent piece 6 9.6mm * 50mm - I like to cut extra as I always lose something to a mistake and this way you don't have to recut with the large risk of not getting the size the same - something you can do if you are running the same batch through the thickness sander at the same time. Step 2 - thickness the 10 pieces to 9mm * 9mm and the 4 larger pieces to 9mm depth only. - At this point I check the edges of all cut pieces against a straight edge and mark them as A, B or C. A quality is the best B is useable and C is not. Step 3 - In the previous post I had 'also' cut extra and had two pieces left over of the larger width. I cut the angle for the joint into one and then used that as the base for the angles into the next. I then scribbled some green and red ink over these two pieces which would function as my bases. - this allows me to get an identical cut each time and whereas the previous method used 3 pieces of wood to get the cut piece high enough in the vice this just needed one thus increasing ease of use, stability, accuracy and reduced error possibility. My two lovely blanks red and green Step 4 - Using some of the scrap (2 pieces from Step 2 were found to be C class) I tried to cut the depth in the table saw and then used the pieces from Step 3 to cut the joints. If they did not match I re-adjusted the table saw blade height and repeated (cutting of the dodgy end) until I was happy. - At this point you want the table saw height locked. Under no circumstances would you want to adjust the blade height or the distance to the cut guide. If you did then Step 4 would need to be replicated and you may not have enough wood and get that height wrong and the joints are cut wrong and you have to start again.... Step 5 - I used the table saw to cut the joint corner depth on one side of all the pieces (including the 50mm thick ones). Step 6 - I then started with piece 1 and used the green blank to cut the joint on the mill. Once complete I wrote on the joint 1RG standing for piece 1 Right joint and Green blank - I then took the next piece and cut it on the red blank, marked it 2LR for 2 Left Red after I had checked the fit was good. I then repeated this for one joint for all the 1-5 pieces. - The reason only 1 side was done was that if a mistake was made and the joint did not fit then the other end can be cut down and restarted to match so it is a safety valve.. An action shot! of writing! Step 7 - Not wanting to adjust the table saw setup I used the disc sander which also can keep cuts exactly at 90 degrees and shortened the next piece accordingly. I could then use the table saw to cut the opposing sides joint depth and then repeat the exercise for the opposing side joints. Step 8 - I gummed a cut out section from my plans onto the piece. Now please remember this is the opposite side to the left joint table saw cut. Step 9 - Now it was time to start on the much more complex piece 6. For this I started by cutting the upper side of the piece with the table saw being very careful to not go near the rising section (the saw naturally cuts deeper lower so you can accidentally cut into wood that should not be touched. Step 10 - I used a scalpel to cut out the paper that covered the joint and then used the mill as before to cut the majority of the joint out to a depth of 4.5mm (one reason for the 9mm size is to make this cut easier) As long as the vice is set up properly you can also do the parallel section of the joint on the line. Step 11 - Mills are wonderful things and I now loosened my vice and moved it about so I could do the same cut to the rising angle and the 2 other angles on the floor of the joint. When adjusting the vice I would just move the mill out of the way so I did not adjust its height (and thus get into potential issues when resetting). Step 12 - The piece came out of the mill vice I used the scroll saw to cut the upper line (not close to the line itself - around 2mm off) Step 13 - The piece then went back in the mill with some flat scrap under it and the mill was lowered over 9mm so I could do the same to the upper edge. Step 14 - It was removed from the mill for the last time and the table saw was used to cut off the end piece Step 15 - The disc sander handled the forward diagonal edge. Step 15 - the piece was now placed back in the now straightened vice so its left most joint can be cut using the red blank from step 3. What's nice about this approach is that you can move the mill sideways and fit the other side whilst it is still in the vice to test the fit if you are nervous about it.... Below you can see piece 6 pre tidy up. It looks messier than it actual is but that, I suppose, is the power of cameras these days. Step 16 - the corners and places were angles change all needed work with chisels to correct. So there we have it. I like this approach as the mill is a huge amount of fun to use and it helps guarantee those right angle and exact depth cuts and thus helps counter my own lack of craftsman skills. Next up I will be looking at gluing them together (I have the pieces from the previous post to be my test guinea pigs) and then once that is done thicknessing the top/bottom to size before blueing. The sides might wait until after the bolts are done - I plan on using wood as opposed to metal this time and am undecided on the order to do this currently. If I do it prior to thicknessing then the thicknessing will flatten - which I like the thought of... Pieces almost ready to be glued the only piece that still needs cutting down is piece 1 which is still oversized so it can be cut to the correct key length once all pieces are glued and any incremental sizing errors in either direction make themselves known. (Pieces are not exactly over their drawing prints in case anyone was wondering) Finally, she is indeed a lovely ship Frolick. It may interest any trivia followers out there that in the Aubrey Maturin book 'Treasons Harbour' O'Brian has some minor criticism of Hoste (I don't entirely disagree though I think my own opinion of him is more rooted in opportunity than O'Brian's and his has a ring of some of the complaints about Nelson in it). He then goes on to describe how a Lt Charles Fielding has escaped from French prison and hid all over Europe and had finally managed to get out on the Adriatic in a small boat which is then found by the Nymphe (one of his old ships). This is interesting because the actual officer was Donat Henchy O'Brien and the ship that found him, and the one in which he used to be on the roster of, was none other than my Amphion. He covers it in detail in his memoirs 'My Adventures during the late war'. Just another example of Mr O'Brians skill at continually re-purposing actual historical events to provide realism in his stories. You may find it curious why he did not attribute it accordingly and I think (guessing naturally) that Hoste was one of the minor sources for some of Aubrey's actions and as this book specifically mentions one of the re-purposed activities- when Hoste (then in the Bacchante) took Cattaro in 1813 - even involving a helpful Archbishop. This was detailed in an earlier Aubrey book ('The Ionian Mission' - here O'Brian even mentions Cattaro but as another location and shifts some of his combatant nationalities but not most of the events themselves) but in the current one O'Brian has Aubrey going to his fictional town version and meeting up with his fictional Pope/archbishop so I personally think he didn't want to draw so much direct attention to the Hoste and the Amphion which was best known under his command. Tying the actual O'Brien to the espionage and a wife was probably a major factor as well. Anyway thanks for reading for anyone that got this far.
  6. Just paid a little more attention to the rest of this thread (as opposed to the message) so some people have noted potential issue with boom and jib. So beyond the extra measurements mine just really adds the horrible sketch no doubt explaining why I went into IT. It's a lovely kit either way and a pleasure to build.
  7. The bowsprit is apparently 35 ft and 4 inches to be exact which is 168.275 at scale. Also the Admiralty has 2 sets of plans for the Bounty and they differ in size slightly. The McKay book indicates he believes the second to be more accurate. You also have a 3rd set of plans which is the size when the adjustments were completed. They 'should' match the second but Bligh did make further changes. Not to impact the length admittedly. Kit length also includes the Driver Boom sticking out the back which needs to include the connection piece to the mast not measured with the boom itself as when saying how big a kit is you have to tell how long it will be for literal space purposes ( you cant say its 3 ft long when extra masts etc make it 5 ft) Aaaaannnndd kit length also includes the Jiboom which is not only attached to the Bowsprit but is also partially attached to it (so its length can be adjusted) - the Jiboom was 27ft 1 inch apparently. As a practical example here is a (horribly bad) sketch I did when trying to estimate how big my Amphion would be at size and due to the angles it would be an overestimate in this case.
  8. Time for a ramble and then an update..Years ago Henry Ford commented on failure which is a wonderful way to approach things I think and is certainly something I use a lot in modelling. The relevance here is that I started on my keel pieces and used the approach I detailed (in considerable detail) around page 5 of this log ( urk 5 years ago). Anyway I cut some joints and wasn't happy with them. Two things in particular irked me and these are admittedly both correctable. Firstly using the scroll saw to cut the shoulder tended to produce a slightly angled cut that became more obvious once the joint was made (this can be expected as the Scroll saw will cut faster as it initially contacts but the later cuts meet more resistance and the blades are thin enough that they can bend). The solution here is either a thicker blade or a slower cut with a faster saw speed. The other was that post table saw cut (close.) to the diagonal line the joint still needed lots of hand work and it proved surprisingly easy to over work it and go to deep etc. Either way I was not pleased. After considering the problem I decided to try two different approaches. For the initial shoulder cut the table saw would be an adequate replacement. It can cut to a specific depth, utterly straight thus eliminating any bend. For the diagonal though I had to think of other options and in the end moved to use one of my favourite power tools - my Sherline mill specifically with an end mill. I had used this in the previous build for the complex joint at the end but that was at right angles and this most certainly was not. The main issue was that even if I managed to replicate the exact angle of the cut over every cut even a slight over cut would result in different angles and bad joints. My way of compensating was as follows (and I may still change this as I am (frankly) still tempted to cut all the joints with the same angle). Anyway. I used one of the better previous pieces as a base line and secured that in a vice. I then put the next piece into the joint but the wrong way round. This way the bits to be removed would stick up and I could then mill them out. The advantages here are that as long as each joint matches if I over cut one then the next will automatically be undercut and vice versa and 'should' be a good join. At least to acceptable tolerances. Since this makes little sense lets cut to lots of pictures. Please note that the mill shots are of the initial pieces cut against a set angle, after these are cut following joints are made with the joint it will be used with. Here is the initial method of securing the keep piece and what the mill is cutting against. The key point is not to drop lower than the table saw cut (which can be clearly seen to the left). The mill has several methods of ensuring accuracy across multiple dimensions so its a matter of how its approached as opposed to a specific way of doing so. Next up we have shot of the joint once it is complete. since you still have to be careful near the shoulder itself it may still require some very minor manual touching up. Here is a photo of the simple keel pieces 'complete'. You will notice piece 1 is considerably oversized. This is so that once gluing is complete I can cut that to the exact keel length and thus avoid any incremental sizing issues that might have arisen in either direction. Another of the pieces on their sides with my simplistic joint numbering system As a rough sizing attempt I laid it on the full size plan Finally some detail of the joints Next up I have to work on the complex joint at keel piece 6 but I am expecting to redo this for two reasons. The first is I don't think I cut enough blanks (I have 4 for the box joint and they are oversized so in case of disaster can shorten and restart) but more importantly I think I need more fat on these pieces for thicknessing to the correct size post gluing. This 'may' not be necessary but for the moment I am treating as a blind test run so see what other potential improvements/technique adjustments can be planned. I also want to re-look at that joint in turbocad. I did design it with the main joint at an angle but in the original version I kept it at right angles to simplify it. I'm not currently sure which approach to take. Anyway thanks for reading!
  9. Greetings! When working on kits I tended to paint once the part was complete (so the wales when the wales done) but not wait until the end as rigging etc gets in the way. On my first kit i did this then covered the entire model in talcum powder in an erroneous attempt to mark the water line. Then I had to paint it again plus wash out bits that should not be painted. (Did look good as a 'ghost' ship though...)
  10. It is really hard to bend. I found it easier to 'carve' it into the bent shape as opposed to trying to force it to bend. If you do try to bend it then lots of water and heat and beware of it splintering. Best sources are old furniture/ornaments if you can find them. It is a protected wood so it shouldn't be sold from recently cut down trees..
  11. I haven't but you will getter a better response by starting a build log or asking perhaps on a member who has done (doing) the build of the kit.
  12. I use the nails (and a push nail thing which is probably not the right name) on the underlayer of planks (normally limewood?). I never use them on the outer layer as I dont want the holes plus you have a better gluing area at that point so there is less need.
  13. Variety is the spice of life! or something along those lines....So any model is a pleasure to see built. Nice to have you aboard.
  14. Good build choice and I will also search out the book.
×
×
  • Create New...