17th century English merchant flags

[Louie da fly]

That pretty much says it - does anyone know what flag/s would have been flown by an English merchant ship in the 1670s-1690s?

 

Steven

[druxey]

I believe that a red ensign would  (pre-Union) have been flown.

[Mark P]

Good Evening Stephen;

 

Druxey is correct, but they flew the St George's cross also. Timothy Wilson's very useful book 'Flags at sea' gives the following for merchant ships, set down by a royal proclamation in 1674:

 

'The Flag and Jack White, with a Red Cross (commonly called the Saint George's Cross) passing quite through the same [that is, filling the whole flag, not in the canton] And the Ensign Red, with the like Cross in a Canton White, at the upper corner thereof next the staff'. 

 

English merchant vessels were banned from using the Union flag as flown on the King's ships from 1606. However, it would appear that many vessels ignored this ban, as it brought exemptions from various duties and requirements in some foreign ports, and helped to prevent having crews pressed; as well as, presumably, helping to discourage pirates from attacking what might be taken as a warship from a distance.

 

That the ban was widely ignored is illustrated by various attempts to stamp out the practice, including by Samuel Pepys; seemingly without much success, as such attempts and various proclamations prohibiting it, continued into the 18th century.

 

Various official trading organisations, such as the East India Company, also flew their own flag.

 

all the best,

 

Mark 

[Lieste]

Don't forget the widespread use of false flags (e.g French/Dutch used as a means of delaying, confusing or avoiding interception and attack. or to bypass blockades of ports etc).

This was a near universal done sparingly both by warships trying to close on an easy sailing 'prey' and by a slower, weaker merchant trying to avoid trouble. Though not performed at *every* meeting on the seas, and it had some limited utility as vessels had distinctive hull form and rigging details which would betray their true origin (though not *necessarily* current use), when closely observed by a knowledgable officer or crew, but the benefit of starting a pursuit at gun shot, rather than from 4 miles or more is obvious, as is the possibility to slip through a blockade on papers and a flag of convenience .

[Chuck Seiler]

Would this also be true of a ship carrying colonists from London to Philadelphia in 1683?  I suppose, after all, it IS a merchant ship.

[Louie da fly]

Thanks everyone for the answers. Very interesting. I'd thought those would be the flags flown, but didn't know if they were confined to warships. Chuck, interestingly enough I'm trying to find out for someone whose ancestors were colonists in 1684.

 

Steven

[Chuck Seiler]

Interesting.  I had a couple come over in 83, one in 84 and a few dribbs after that. 

 

Where did your friend's come from/go to?

[Louie da fly]

As far as he can make out his ancestor came from England to Virginia as an indentured labourer in 1679 (not 1684 as I previously stated) on a ship called the Josiah, which is described as a frigate. But most of his information is from Wikipedia and can't really be verified further.

 

He's a beginner who wants to build a kit model of the Josiah (which is of course impossible - no kits exist, and there's no real idea of what the Josiah was like - so I've pointed him at the nearest thing - and not very near at that - Corel's Berlin). I don't think he's interested in historical accuracy - he just wants a nice model to display to his friends so he can say "The Josiah was a bit like that", which is fine by me.

 

Steven

[Chuck Seiler]

BERLIN  as a first model?  Wow, good luck with that!

[Louie da fly]

Well that's pretty much what I told him. We'll see if anything comes of it. But as far as I can see there are no other kits out there that are anything like the ship he wants to build. It appears to be a neglected field among kit manufacturers - but then again, there's certainly very little information available on (or interest in)  merchant ships of this period, and the Josiah (if Wikipedia is to be believed) started life as a frigate.

 

Steven