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Posted

Greetings

 

I am currently building the Artesania Latina Bounty and I am stuck on one element of rigging the spanker boom.  Specifically the rigging of item shown below as #805.  This is listed in the plans as the Gaffsail Halyard.  I do not think the arrows shown on this diagram properly represent the rigging intent.  It appears to me from other plans (also not very clear) that the line starts by attachment to block on the boom feeds through double block on the mast, back through the block on the boom, and finally through double block on mast again and then perhaps belays to the deck. So it seems the intent here is only to pull the boom towards the mizzen mast. BountyGaffSailBoomRig.jpg.fcab5042c2b96152c83367d9a99657ea.jpg

 

What is confusing me  is that I cannot find anything like this in any of the books I have on rigging.  I have also looked at as many photos of models and real ships as I can find, and I also have not seen this in any of the photos.  I have specifically looked at photos of A.L. Bounty models and have seen this missing on everything I can find. 

 

So, I am wondering if anyone can tell me whether this rigging is legitimate for a vessel of the late 1700s and if my understanding of the specific function and rigging approach would be correct.

 

Thanks very much

 

Mark Paulhus

  

Posted

   I'm still learning about rigging, where every line has a purpose, and thought to defer to a more experienced MSW builder.  Yet I'm intrigued by your post, and consulted 'Rigging Period Ship Models' by Lennarth Petersson - a book dealing exactly with warships of the Bounty period.  I'll include somewhat out-of-focus images for 'use in a book review' ,  and suggest you buy yourself a copy to se ALL the fantastic details in pictorial form regarding masting, rigging and sails for your Bounty.  Kit makers often simplify or modify instructions in this area for an 'out of the box' build.

 

  The # 805 image you question appears to be a confusion of the outhaul for the spanker (with an inhaul on the other side), on p.81 of the book.  The spacing of the elements is not necessarily exact to provide more clarity of function.  There are three purchases on the tackle, so the space between them will be slightly more than 1/3 the length of the distance the spanker is hauled out along the gaff (before hauling out), and once hauled out - the blocks will be closer together.  The inner block (which will likely be closer to the yoke than as pictured) appears to be attached (not clear) to the underside of the gaff yoke, with the haul line is belayed on a cleat on the gaff.

 

  Models without sails likely omit the in and out haul tackle.

 

image.thumb.jpeg.b5802e4b07747109191d77cbae863847.jpeg

 

  The inhaul (on the other side of the gaff boom) works in a similar manner to bring the lower corner of the spanker in.  The only lines attached to control the gaff boom are the topping lifts, the gaff pendants, and the sheet.  While there are peak (boom) and throat (yoke) halyards for the upper boom, the lower boom is not raised, nor does it go lower than the support collar allows.

 

image.thumb.jpeg.e1ef2a748a3616ed818b61a62e1c3bd2.jpeg

image.thumb.jpeg.efed3daedb54880fdefb70b5627fbf60.jpeg

 

 

Completed builds:  Khufu Solar Barge - 1:72 Woody Joe

Current project(s): Gorch Fock restoration 1:100, Billing Wasa (bust) - 1:100 Billings, Great Harry (bust) 1:88 ex. Sergal 1:65

 

 

 

Posted

Thanks very much for the response.  I do have that book and numerous others and reference them frequently.  I am trying to avoid mistakes,  so before starting the final rigging I am making (to the best of my ability) a full rigging plan with all belay points and identification of the run of all lines (blocks, attachment points, etc).  This has really led to a lot of questions and obvious issues with provided rigging plans.  I actually have mapped the belay points for each line as provided in the Artesania plans, McKay's "Anatomy of the Bounty" book, the Occre bounty plans, and my books (such as Petersson, Lee...).  Honestly,  it was shocking to me, but I suppose experienced model makers would shake their heads and laugh at the Newbie, but there is almost zero commonality.  I have been working on it way too long.  

 

Anyway.  your answer got me thinking about my assumptions on this issues.  I did think about this as you described, but initially dismissed the thought for two reasons:

1) The blocks on the mast and boom are both fixed,  so the tackle really does nothing (it is still 1:1 on the lines)

2) There is no mention of an "inhaul" on the gaff sail aft/bottom end in any of the plans

 

But, after reading your post,  I was thinking that there is a solution that works in support of your thoughts

 

1) The blocks attached to the boom must actually not be attached.  The need to act like normal tackle in conjunction with  the blocks on the mast

2) There must actually be an "inhaul" to pull in the bottom end of the sail.  This makes sense to me as the brails are quite high in the plans and there would still be a lot of canvas still loose when this sail is brailed up. 

 

If this is all true,  then I would imagine the rigging would/could look like below. 

 

Looking forward to hearing any comments on whether this makes any sense. 

 

ProposedGaffSailRigging.jpg.b670eb137ad9e21bef265ce337bb04d6.jpg

Posted

   You have a good approach, and I've copied your drawing for reference ... thanks !  As has been said elsewhere, the captain could have the ship rigged to his orders - and you are captain of this ship.  There are often multiple ways to accomplish each task with lines and tackle.  For example, I'm enamored of the two ways to combine a leech line with the outer bunt line by use of a 'bulls eye' shown on p.169 of 'Masting and Rigging the Clipper Ship & Ocean Carrier' by Harold Underhill (you may have this already).  When coupled with the method of controlling two buntlines on p.163 (and I'll use just 2 blocks, a & c, rather than the three pictured)  - what would have been 3 separate lines needing belay points below can be combined into a single haul line !  Eliminating 2 lines on both sides of a sail (4) x at least 12 sails on a square rigged ship, and there will be 48 less lines to route through fairleads and belay.

 

  These and other reasonable simplifications will be used on a Winter project of mine (delayed by summer landscaping ... and the resulting hernia surgery I've undergone as a result of an older guy still thinking he can do what he could at a younger age).  A model ship is an art form representing the tastes and judgement of the builder.  Work to please yourself in your own time frame.  One get find pleasure even thinking  or planning what course of action to take on a project (while busy with other tasks).  Your ship in dry dock will patiently wait for you without complaint until you can get back to it.

 

   Be assured, I'm not laughing (as in retirement, I'm something of a newbie myself ... and intermediate level is as far as I'm likely to achieve) - and I highly doubt that any other builder on our forum is laughing either.  At worst, it may pleasantly remind them of the path they have already trod to wherever they are.  I expect that there will at least two unfinished projects when I pass over the bar, and figure that someone else might just take them up sooner or later.  Like someone said, "I've worried about a lot of things in life - most of which never happened.

 

Fair sailing!               Johnny

Completed builds:  Khufu Solar Barge - 1:72 Woody Joe

Current project(s): Gorch Fock restoration 1:100, Billing Wasa (bust) - 1:100 Billings, Great Harry (bust) 1:88 ex. Sergal 1:65

 

 

 

Posted

Mark,

 

We may be laughing, but not at you. We are recalling the frustration we all had when in the same situation. When it comes to rigging, few authors ever agree on anything! There were possibly as many ways to rig a ship as there were vessels!

 

The gaff sail outhaul is often rigged similar to what you show in your drawing. One variation I have seen is for the forward block to be attached to the boom jaws instead of the mast. But otherwise the operation of the tackle is the same.

 

The one rule for rigging is that lines must not foul each other, and should run free without chafing on other lines or spars.

 

Generally, lines that originate lower on the mast and yards belay forward, and lines from higher up belay aft.

 

Lines that originate on the mast or from points/blocks close to the mast belay around the base of the mast (fife rails). Lines that originate out near the ends of yards usually belay on the bulwarks (pin rails or cleats). An exception on ships with many topsails, topgallants and royals will see the lines for these sails that originate near the masts lead outboard through fairleads on the shrouds to belay on the bulwarks/pin rails.

 

A very good reference for rigging is Darcy Lever's The Young Sea Officer's Sheet Anchor (1808).

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

Posted

Phil/Johnny

 

Thanks for the responses.  My stereotype of the British Navy (at least in the age of sail)  has been one of rigid control and commonality,  which is why the rigging issues seem so odd to me.  I am starting to accept that there was really more control by the Captain and crew than by the shipyard or Admiralty.   In the books I have,  there does seem to be more general consensus on certain rigging practices (although not in line with provided model plans) and I do think I will lay out my plans to match general practice - similar to Phil's comments above.   My plans are still to create a complete plan if I can before doing the rigging,  but I'm sure I will run into plenty of issues that will need adjustments once lines start crossing.    I am a Naval Architect by trade, now retired, and it is hard to break from the rigid engineering style of planning for things like this. 

 

Relative to my particular question in the original post, I think Phil's comments about attaching the forward block the the boom jaws seems to be a better approach as it would put less strain on the rigging when the boom rotates.   This also seems more in line with what one finds in the books.

 

I did have one more question. 

My plans have a sheave at the very end of the gaff boom, just like in the lower driver boom.  I don't see any rigging going through this and I don't see anything similar in the rigging books I have either.  Since the gaff sail is fully attached to the gaff boom there would be no outhauls/inhauls, so no legitimate purpose here.  I am thinking that this is really just an error in the plans.  Unfortunately, I have already installed this in the model.

*I understand that the flag halyard was typically attached to an eye at the end of the mast,  but was thinking that I would run it through here instead.  Does that make sense? 

* Also, was the flag halyard typically just tied off around the lower boom in some fashion?  I don't see anything that shows cleats for this. 

image.png.39bbf4a21f7c00be168ae9eaf7dfed71.png

Thanks again

 

Mark

 

Posted

  So not to be superfluous, the sheave could be used for the ensign - not sure where it belayed.  Petersson p.27 (w/o sheave) uses a small block attched to an eye at the ehd.

Completed builds:  Khufu Solar Barge - 1:72 Woody Joe

Current project(s): Gorch Fock restoration 1:100, Billing Wasa (bust) - 1:100 Billings, Great Harry (bust) 1:88 ex. Sergal 1:65

 

 

 

Posted

Mark,

 

The sheave could be used for the flag halyard. In some cases the halyard ran though a small "jewel" block hanging from the end of the gaff. Either way would work.

 

I have seen examples where the ends of the flag halyard was belayed to a cleat on the boom. This way the lines moved with the boom and gaff.  You really can't tie them off to anything else (like the bulwarks).

 

On schooners that flew gaff topsails the topsail sheet sometimes ran through a sheave at the end of the gaff. Maybe the model plans just copied the gaff drawing from a schooner. On square riggers it was not common to have a gaff topsail above the spanker/driver. However, I have seen at least one instance where a gaff topsail was used on the mizzen above the spanker. Sometimes such additional sails were rigged in light winds but not normally flown.

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

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