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Oil or Water Base stains and clears - moved by moderator


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What is the best  way to stain and seal your decks,planking and other furniture on a model ship??

I am new to the static wood ship building and am not sure if an oil base would keep glue from sticking,Or how well a water base stain would work and look. I did get the paint kit with my kit and it is water base..

I am starting the HMS Victory Bow section and need to stain and paint as i go ,so before I go out and get some stain I thought I would ask the PROS.

 

Thanks in Advance

Ron

Edited by Ronnie B
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Any kind of stain or clear finish will impede glue adhesion. You should make your glue joints and then stain or seal.

 

As for oil or water base, that is a matter of personal taste. If you have a problem with fumes and/or like the ease of clean up with water based products, then go that route. I prefer Minwax products, but others may have some more suggestions.

 

Russ

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The seal will mess up the glue for sure.  On my first build I put on a few layers on semi gloss poly and a couple days later did some touch ups, next day the CA glue had turned into the transparent mushroom like thing I had scrape off with a 11 blade.

 

As for the stain, I have used oil based Minwax and let it dry for at least a day, glued ok, then sealed.  Maybe it is the minwax oil but the glue (Slow drying CA and Titebond wood glue) have been ok with stained wood.  Thin, super fast CA may have some issues.

 

Also, stray glue tends to really stick out when stain is applied so I always stain--> glue--> seal.

 

Hope this helps!

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Given Casey's reply, I should mention that my advice was from experience using carpenter's glue not CA. Since I do not use CA except in rare instances, I cannot give any good advice about it within this context. However, using carpenter's glue, definitely glue, then stain/seal.

 

Russ

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I, for one, totally disagree.

 

First of all why use oil based stain to begin with? Are you going to expose your model to the outdoors for a long time, or is it sitting inside?

Water based stains  (and finishes) have become the standard in my furniture making and I use it on models as well. I have no problems with 're-staining' or adding more color, and PVA or wood glue sticks very nicely to it.

I used oil based stains in the past and decided they are difficult to clean, take some care to apply, are 'smelly', and not dry fast, and they usually do not take a good 'bond' with PVA, etc.      Besides they are not 'green'.

 

In either case, be sure to sand away the remaining glue if you bond first and than try to stain. So, why not stain first and then glue?

However, if you are putting down planking on a deck, for example, don't bother staining until you have sanded the deck smooth. Then stain!

There have been several threads here about stains. Have a look, and then try it yourself. Experiment!!!

Edited by Modeler12
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Russ,Caseyand Jay

Thank you all for your input . I have always used Minwax on other things and I will see if thy have the little sample cans of both kinds and experiment ,like Jay said"

The hard part is I have 5 decks to plank,sand stain seal ,all with exposed cannons,barrels ect.,one at a time inbetween frames.

Well Iguess thats all part of the hobby (trying to figure out how to do it) :o

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Casey

Not sure yet if minwax makes a waterbase ,if so i will try it ,if not i will have to see what the local hardware or diy has.

As for glue I will be using Titebond II. I have used this on other wood projects and works well.

 

Edited by Ronnie B
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Brian is spot on. Most resins used in oils and solvents will yellow based on their chemical composition.  The terms water based and oil based are true misnomers. The water and oil (or solvent) are carriers.  The resins (polyurethane, acrylic, etc) are neither "based" on their water or oil/ solvent carriers but simply in solution in them. Acrylics are  UV transparent and will not yellow. Polyurethanes gradually degrade from UV initiated reactions and oxidation that result in yellowing. I prefer Oil /solvent borne stains for two reasons: they do not cause grain raise like wb stains and they can penetrate.  In summary, there are pluses and minuses to both approaches. As someone said: experiment.

Edited by Jaxboat
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Can I just make a correction here to the statement on polyurethane varnishing yellowing - the reaction is caused by uv exposure - common varnishes use an aromatic di-isocyante , usually MDI by its shortened name. The fact is all aromatic di-isocyantes react with uv as this is a reaction due to the double bonds in the core molecule of MDI. Not all polyurethanes yellow - try looking for a grade containing an aliphatic di-isocyanate commonly used in car paint lacquers.

 

Norman

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