Mark P
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Introduction of royal yards to the Royal Navy
Mark P replied to Mark P's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Hello again; Again, you are probably aware of this, but just in case it might be new information, the NMM website catalogue note says against the 'as captured' draught that Licorne was docked at Portsmouth on 17th September 1778, and was undocked on 2nd November the same year. As this is only six weeks it is not enough for a major refit, but some changes must have occurred during this time. Kind regards, Mark P -
Introduction of royal yards to the Royal Navy
Mark P replied to Mark P's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Dear mtaylor; I notice that you are building a model of Licorne; maybe it is not the same vessel, and having regard to your experience you are probably already aware of it, but as part of my research, I have spent a long time looking at the NMMs collection of 'as built' draughts, and there is a drawing of 'Licorne' (1755) there, as captured in 1778. Kind regards, Mark P -
Introduction of royal yards to the Royal Navy
Mark P replied to Mark P's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Dear mtaylor; This was my thought also. I have seen enough draughts of French vessels to know that they were very different, and generally more lightly built than British equivalents. As I have never seen his publication, I just was not sure if Boudriot dealt exclusively with French ships, or if he also covered some British ones. I thank you for saving me the trouble of looking through the Museum's copy; I have a list of things to look at already, and little enough time to do it in. Many thanks, Mark P -
Introduction of royal yards to the Royal Navy
Mark P replied to Mark P's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Dear Cardely; Thanks for the information; I had forgotten about Boudriot. I will be visiting the Caird Library at the Maritime Museum next week, and I will take a look at their copy to see what it is like. Many thanks, Mark P -
Introduction of royal yards to the Royal Navy
Mark P replied to Mark P's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Hi Cardely, and many thanks for taking the time to reply. I think that I will follow my own instinct, and omit royals, just have flagpoles above the top gallants. Can you tell me what is the full title and publisher of the '74 gun ship' which you mention, as I am not familiar with this, and it sounds just like the sort of book I should add to my reference library. Once again, many thanks. Mark P -
Introduction of royal yards to the Royal Navy
Mark P replied to Mark P's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Thank you Druxey; Your reply chimes with my instinct. I have not noticed royals on any of the models I have looked at, and I feel that they belong in the same era as the flying jibboom and its sail. It was only when I noticed Lees' assertion that I considered the likelihood of them being fitted. As I would suspect that frigates would be amongst the first vessels to be fitted with royals, it is useful to know that even in 1805 they were not universal to such ships. Many thanks! On a different topic, I notice that your picture is of a ship's boat, and looks like a very neat piece of work. Can you tell me how you make the shell or framework, on which to build the planking. I know of several methods, and as I have yet to try any of them, I am interested in others' opinions and methods (Whilst I am researching and drawing my chosen vessel, I am making the cannon & ship's boats) Once again, many thanks for any advice. Mark P -
Hi Dave; Brian Lavery, in 'The arming and fitting of English ships of war,' states, on pages 139 & 141, that ropes were as follows: Breechings were 4" for 9 & 6 pdrs in 1716. He does not give a later figure, but states that they tended to thicken through the century. For example, in 1716 5" rope was used for 12 & 18 pdrs. By the 1780s, these were using 5 1/2" rope (all sizes are circumference) In 1716, gun tackles used 2" rope for 9 & 6 pdrs, which was unchanged in the 1780s. Lavery does not give a figure for the size of the train tackle, attached to the rear axle of the carriage, but I have seen references in his work and elsewhere to the effect that 3 tackles were issued per gun, whereas previously only two tackles had bee authorised per gun. This seems to indicate that the train tackle was the same size as the gun tackles. Hope this helps. Mark P
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Greetings Fellow Modellers! Does anyone out there have knowledge of the introduction of royal yards and sails in the Royal Navy? The 'Sovereign of the Seas' had them in 1637, but she was an early exception. James Lees, in his 'Masting & Rigging' says that they were introduced for the fore and main masts in 1779, then states that the general introduction of royals on all masts was in 1790. I am researching at the moment, prior to scratch-building a model of 'HMS Tremendous' a 74-gun ship launched in 1784. This falls between the two dates cited by Lees, so presumably she would have royals on the fore and main masts; the problem is that Lees is not specific in saying which classes of vessel had royals from 1779; maybe it was only first and second rates? If royals were fitted on the fore and main masts of all ships from 1779, why would they then need to be 'generally introduced' at a later date? They would only then need to be added to the mizzen mast if already present on the other masts. Can anyone point me to examples of usage or relevant texts in the period between these two dates. Steel is too late. Many thanks for any suggestions/pointers
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