ClipperFan

Rob, I will double check dimensions on my skylight sketch, based on Michael Mjelde's Glory of the Seas coach house roof sketch. From memory they were each 6' long x 4' wide. His side view showed they appear to be 3' high. Look at the photo, there's seating surfaces on each side as well. FYI: top divisions of 8 sections are wrong. I later revised the top to match sides. There really were 6 divisions, not 8 as incorrectly illustrated.

@rwiederrich The 44' poop deck fits a 10 foot skylight, which looks pretty well spaced with a 6 foot steering box and ship's helm, a small binnacle about a 5' companion with smokestack about 2 feet between it and the 4 foot 20 inch wide skylight with 10 inch seating on both sides. Since Stag Hound also was designed to carry passengers, it makes sense the skylight could double as a seating area, again similar to what was installed on Glory of the Seas.

@rwiederrich "A portico is a roofed steucture with columns attached to the front entry way of a home." That's how these inviting structures are described in modern architectural style. They're also generally more ornate than a plain entranceway. I think Duncan McLean nailed it when he described this small house which is actually just an entranceway to stairs leading to apartments three feet below the main deck. I also believe Rob, you nailed this tiny edifice on your first try. Well done!

Rob, Wow! Those little round toothpicks are too large? I'm surprised to read that. On the new perspective sketch it seems like they're just about the right size. Of course, it's been a while since I've actually seen one, so there is that...

@rwiederrich That's consistent with what's seen on coach house side windows. For allowing light entrance, it may make more sense to have single rectangular side windows. For front and side doors, if possible, I hope you can retain the pillars which are what add dimension and interest to this structure. At this size, maybe round toothpicks could suffice.

Rick, Thanks! What I do is the easy part. Rob is making the real magic as his 8' portico at 1:96th is essentially a 1" square with aft end cut in half, topped by 32" high 21/64ths" scale, turned stanchion railing surrounding it!

Rob, Since you're working on such a tiny size, that makes sense. For the sides, you might want to do just one larger window too. If you take a close look at the revised arch, it's almost flat as well.

Rob, Nice foundational work. As a reminder of the difference between my earlier inaccurate arched windows, I'm sharing the latest fore and aft revisions, more accurately based on Michael Mjelde's sketch. As we discussed, the 2 foot overhang is too extreme and should just be 1 foot. Faux pillars (since they're only 1/2 projections) support arches over each element, window or panel below, which are slightly inset and match profiles above. New subdued arches are almost flat in comparison. Overlapping arches may not be as clear in my sketch, so I've included Michael Mjelde's Glory of the Seas rear coach house front fascia for clarity and better comparison.

Rob, as you said before, you had some concerns that such placement of a glass window might open it up to rigging damage. I'd just keep the same motif for design consistency but eliminate the window. My thinking was for providing light but the massive mast would probably block a lot of that as well.

I am really impressed wit the ornate design of this relatively small portico entranceway. Inspiration comes from Michael Mjelde's accurate sketch of McKay clipper: Glory of the Seas rear coach house front fascia and Buttersworth's Flying Fish painting of her ornate rear coach house. End result is a structure which has a much larger appearance than actual dimensions of the little building itself.

Rob, Yes I did and I started sharing some of our research there. Just a note, other than an oversized roof, portico front and rear are the most accurate revisions I did. The side view structures still have a little more arch which needs to be toned down to match front and rear.

Rob, I agree with you. I was thinking of a somewhat smaller Stag Hound portico roof entrance overhang similar to that on Glory of the Seas stern coach house front fascia. It does look a bit oversized, so I'll scale it back to a foot on each side. That should be better proportioned, especially for the aft end.

@rwiederrich Thanks for redoing your house to follow The Boston Daily Atlas description of the simpler house design. You've done beautiful, clean and elegant work. I particularly like how to roof molding overlaps the roof surface. Herringbone pattern on the rear door is an interesting choice. Nicely done.

@rwiederrich @Vladimir_Wairoa @Luis Felipe @druxey Rob while you're waiting on final Stag Hound bulkheads, I refocused my efforts on the rear portico. So, you could have a scale accurate piece to focus your energetic building efforts on. I reviewed Michael Mjelde's original Glory of the Seas rear coach house front fascia and realized my arches didn't match really subdued ones on the vessels themselves. After correcting that element, I finally finished my rear portico house concept. This more accurately reflects both Glory of the Seas and J.E. Buttersworths painting of McKay's fourth clipper Flying Fish. Attached are fore and aft views which are done. I just need to revise the side view arches to match. Dimensions are 8' square x 8'6" high to clear 32" high fore poop deck railings. Roof has 2' overhang for side entry sliding doors, while fore and aft are just 6" for mizzenmast clearance. Entire roof is encircled by 32" high safety rail on turned stanchions, which isn't mentioned but makes sense, considering it's an 8' fall. This is double the size of 1:96th scale so it needs to be reduced 50%.

Rob, Perhaps it's my personal familiarity with Scottish sensibilities. They put far more emphasis on practical matters over carvings and ornamentation. I believe that's why we have such scarce information on McKay ship decorations. So when he gets specific, I think it speaks volumes.

Rob, If you felt in anyway offended by my remarks, I truly apologize. That wasn't what I meant to imply. I know how serious a modeler you are. I was honestly shocked at your initial reaction. My intent was to try to present an alternative interpretation. For the record, I'm not a hunter and own no guns

@Jared your shrouds do indeed look quite uniform and well spaced.

@druxey @rwiederrich had a fairly visceral reaction which was entirely unexpected. My more muted response to portraying a leaping stag as a central stern motif is it struck me as a logical contretemps to a leaping stag hound figurehead on the bow. It may perhaps also be due to my exposure to highly ornate carvings seen in West Germany on our everyday furniture. Our parents had a rented 3 story apartment in Mainz, Gönsenheim. Included was this massive highly decorated cherry wood dining room cabinet. It was festooned with living and dead animals. Sounds grotesque but actually it was done with such high skill and naturalistic portrayal that it wasn't offensive. Above and along the upper sections were foxes, squirrels, chipmunks and birds all interspersed between oak leaves, acorns, grapes and other foliage. There were even animals facing eachother on part of the level surface. On the lower section, adorning the outer edges on one side dangled a hare hanging by its bound feet. Balancing the other end was a similar hanging pheasant. All of this was supported by ball and claw legs that were so lifelike, my imagination could see the massive feet just walking towards me! Such portrayals are routinely seen on Bavarian Cuckoo Clocks as well. So to me, showing a deer high tailing it away, at least continued a story begun on the bow. It just seems logical. In fact other devices could be other dogs. pheasants or foxes etc. It could all be tastefully done to portray the hunting abilities of the stag hound.

Wow! Rob, it didn't even occur to me to think this was such a controversial issue or get this rise from you. I just thought it was a "Woodsy" Scottish thing. In Scotland a Deerhound was often referred to as a Staghound, almost as if it were interchangeable. More than one contemporary painting depicts these canines chasing deer too. You might just be applying 21st century sensitivities to 19th century decorative standards. In addition, Cornelius McKay's own handwritten notes specifically refer to a "stag hound" figurehead but a stag on the stern. My thought was exactly opposite of yours. To me it's logical that the stern counter would depict the quarry that has the stag hound so aroused to give chase. I agree with Druxey's observation, "other devices" could easily mean more dogs giving chase as they usually hunted in packs. Regardless, if you just want to depict stag hounds alone, I don't think anyone else will call you out on that.

@rwiederrich here's the extent (such as it is) of Scotsman Duncan McLean's less than lavish description of the stern ornamentation on Staghound: "A stag, her name and other devices, neatly executed, ornament her stern. Mr. Gleason, a young artist of much promise, made her carved work." In this case, I see dead center, an antler bearing male deer (stag) in a prancing motion similar to the idea of John Deer logo, head facing left. Surrounding him would be curling acanthus leaves, very ornate surrounding lettering like was on the stern on Glory of the Seas. Here's some examples. This is the original 1876 John Deere logo. A photo of a leaping deer and a sample of acanthus leave carving. I see the leaping stag as a counterpart to the leaping canine figurehead. Herbert Gleason is the artist who 19 years later carved the magnificent, very lifelike Grecian goddess Athene figurehead on Glory of the Seas. In Spring 1851 McLean, quite impressed with the trumpet bearing winged angel on Flying Cloud mentioned that Mr. Gleason had previously carved the longbowman figurehead on the clipper Morning Star.

Rob, Did Mike say under what circumstances she might have been saved? Dashing Wave was a guess based on the stern. I forgot Benj F Packard was out on the Pacific coast. She too had a long life and was finally decomissioned in 1927. There were hopes of turning her into a museum ship. Instead she ended her days as a pseudo pirate ship at Playland Amusement Park. Rye, NY. Sadly the 1938 Hurricane led to her ultimate demise.

@rwiederrich thanks for sharing these images. As a fan of Donald McKay's wondrously beautiful ships, it breaks my heart to see his spectacular last clipper Glory of the Seas treated so shabbily in her later years. The image of her being towed with her masts no longer aligned as she's basically doing yeoman's work as a floating factory salmon processor is in a way just so depressing. If only her owners showed just a little more concern to maintain her muntz metal protection, she might still be with us today. The second scene is apparently when she was laid up during a shipping recession. She appears to possibly lying 2nd to the valiant Dashing Wave which is first. You can get a sense of how deep her hull is by the long, long port side gangway with a boat at the end. Still Glory of the Seas looks real proper with her rig intact. That last painting, for some reason appears to be a bit difficult to capture the accurate shades but it's nice to see it again.

Rob, It would be a pleasure to finally meet in person.

Rob, Should you do, give me enough advanced notice. I'll make arrangements for a return visit to see and probably touch the figurehead Athene at Hyland-Granby Antiques, Hyannis Port, Cape Cod, MA and Russ Jinishian's magnificent maritime art gallery just down the road from Mystic in Stonington, CT. There's also the stunning Captain Nate Palmer House with another nice collection of nice scale clipper ship models too. Then again, no trip to New England can be complete without considering a visit to the venerable Frigate USS Constitution "Old Ironsides." Just keep me posted.

Rob, Oh yeah, on that we agree. Try as I might, I still can't find any system that was used to prevent water ingestion. I just know that there must have been something.