mangulator63

I was lucky it was mandatory when I was enrolled. I ordered a lot of pizza and drank way too much beer during my solitude. I did cook and clean, pay the bills and got along fairly well. During times I was suddenly single I had the smarts to draft a few single buddies as room mates to help out and keep me out of trouble.

That is a beautiful model. When I built my Missouri I had followed the instructions on painting and painted the teak wood deck a flat dark blue. I cannot recall the mix needed to obtain the correct colors but found it interesting that the Navy would paint all that beautiful wood. I know it was for camouflage from attacking planes. I have wondered if the sailors on board preferred the painting vs. holy stoning the deck. I cannot recall if any of the Iowa Class ships had the disruptive type paint scheme. I have seen models with that type of painting but have never found any information on how it would be done, unless it was done after assembly of most of the model and painted with a brush. I also found after a few builds that using paints designed for model railroading to be better then the Tamiya brand paint they listed to mix to get the need color. I learned a lot about weathering and using washes and how to lighten colors to get a good scale appearance when modeling armor. I applied those same techniques in my ship modeling and I found that the ship appeared more realistic. I too have given away the Tamiya ship models I have done over the years, mostly to friends and family. I had a buddy from work ask me to build him the Bismarck. I built a glass display case and had the ship sitting on blocks much like in dry dock. When it was finished I took it into work to give it to him and everybody crowded around it and I spent the next hour answering questions and politely declining offers from others to build them a ship. I built the model for just the cost of materials and because he was a good friend. I didn't want to get into commission type building because I want to enjoy building and learning new ways to improve. If I had started building for profit or had to build a certain model multiple times I would not have been able to explore new methods or been able to research different subjects. I was building 1/35 Armor and 1/48 - 1/32 aircraft along with ships, both 1/350 and Wood Sailing type kits. I liked the variety and going from subject to subject. This was before the internet and I spent a lot of time at the library and in book stores reading all I could on the subject I was modeling at the time. I have a home office and shop along with any flat surface in my house filled with books and magazines I have accumulated over a lifetime. I was smart when Barnes and Noble came out with the Nook and ebooks I started getting all my magazines electronically. Then Amazon came out with Kindle and I have saved so much space by going digital with all my reading needs, plus saved some cash in the process. I still will purchase books now and then to keep a series going in some subjects I follow, but I only have two periodicals delivered a month verses have twelve each month the rest are delivered electronically. Sorry, kinda went off on a tangent there.

I have seen some complex designs being made on 3D printer. I seen a program where they were going on about the benefits of 3D printers for recreating parts that no longer exist for WW2 planes. So I can see some benefits, but like everything today machines are eliminating jobs of craftsmen who have spent their lives perfecting their craft. I was completely shocked when I first seen an solid walnut door that was completely carved by a CNC machine. The amount of detail was shocking. Again a skill that takes years and years to perfect is accomplished now by software and a machine, which since its a digital file can be replicated over and over producing exact copies. It is funny how I can remember how expensive calculators were when they first came out. The tablet I'm using now has more computing power then the luner module had when they went to the moon!

Did you serve on the New Jersey? I have been following a YouTube site run by the US New Jersey Museum. They put out really nice videos on different parts and functions of the ship along with other battleship information. Years ago I made the Tamiya 1/350 US New Jersey and the US Missouri model kits and enjoyed them immensely. I was a member of a local modeling club and I would always do as much research on the subject I was modeling. I have many books on the Iowa Class Battleships of which I used when assembling the ship kits. Back then photo etching was a fairly new way of adding more detail. If I remember correctly I think I used Gold Medal photoetch sets for both. I found the Iowa Class Battleships just fascinating in their complexity. They have such beautiful lines and those 16" guns really packed a punch. I have never had the opportunity to make a trip to any of the Iowa Class Battleships on display as museums. I hope some day I'll get that chance. I would really like to walk the length of Broadway in one of those big ships. I recently watch a documentary on the Iowa Class on PBS I believe. I was surprised how the Navy just mothballed them and then spent tons of money on modernization when they were needed. I read that their top speed was never published and very few photographs of their hulls below the water line were taken. I did read one account of a sailor who was sunning on the fantail when the ship was pushed to full speed. He wrote that there was a lot of vibration and the wash from the props left a wake as high as the deck. I would have really enjoyed witnessing such a spectacular event. When I modeled the Missouri I went with her WW2 layout and the Jersey in her modern layout. I also modeled a lot of armor and planes back then and took time to get weathered scale appearances on all my models. I was surprised at how well our naval ships appeared compared to those of other countries. I could get into weathering with rust streaks and paint damage on Navy ships from other countries but I was hard pressed to find the same degree of wear in photographs of our ships. I have a nice line drawing of the Missouri somewhere, I cannot recall where I got it though. I think I read somewhere that Tamiya had upgraded their 1/350 line of ship models and now include photoetch and metal gun barrels. I

IMO I like the ink on mylar over the CAD print. There is a fineness to it over the CAD work. You are right about recognizing certain draftsmen by the lettering on blueprints. Its been 45 years and I still to this day when printing out something on a form or making a note, I will print my words out as if I am lettering a drawing. I also have to absolutely have quad rule in any note book or journal I use, it's just habit I guess, or there is something really wrong with me. My wife would go with the later. LOL

I made extra money doing perspective drawings for businesses that were doing remodeling that needed city approval. I took the floor plans and made different perspective drawings coloring them with markers or colored pencils designed for this type of work and would make as many different views as needed by the owner for presentation to the city. The city needed to have an idea of what the remodeled space would look like when finished and I would use large presentation panels to mount my drawings of the different views or angles to show the changes. This was before you could use a computer and make slide presentations of CAD drawings. I cannot recall why the city officials required the perspective drawings, but they did. Because I was not incorporated and was still a student I was not paid at a professional rate but I still made decent money and enjoyed the work.

I know how you feel about the table you had in your room back in the 70's I too had a favorite but unfortunately over time it became obsolete for my needs. My attachment was more sentimental due to my father having purchased it for me. But since I was in need of a larger working surface I designed and built one to my needs and specifications. I really took my time and worked out everything in order to have something "future proof" and stable. You would be surprised at how by designing your own the benefits you receive over a store bought model that has limits. I know that the attached lighting I designed on my board is like no other and a board of my build quality would cost ten times more if store bought. Your able to incorporate building materials in your own design that just are not available in office furniture made today.

I have a very similar set up as you. I have a Vemco Track Arm plus a Martin Parallel Bar. I like to use the bar and a adjustable triangle more for finer work. I built my current board out of 1" thick marine grade ply. I covered the drawing surface with rubber drafting board surface by Alvin. Even though my office is well lit I mounted two adjustable lights with full spectrum bulbs because I hate shadows from the tool edges while drawing. I too made a large flat file for drawings and paper storage it is also handy for 1:24000 topo maps. I have a tube storage rack I made also out of old mailing tubes I got for free from a friend. I have found a few good deals on used equipment on eBay for next to nothing. Like I mentioned in my first post, in the early 70's I would only use a Pentel. 05 mechanical drafting pencil that cost $25.00 each. I hated the older lead holder type you had to sharpen all the time and they spread dust everywhere and you could easily ruin a drawing by knocking over the sharpener which was always on top your desk. I did lose one once, and I was lucky that the local art supply store had some in stock, remember this was before the internet and next day delivery. I was really mad at myself because that was a lot of money for me back then. I still have that same second pencil I had to replace but recently found a new Pentel brand of mechanical pencils I really like, it's the Pentel Graph Gear 1000 line in .03 .05 .07 and .09 lead thickness. I purchased two sets of all four and I have different lead hardness in the ones I use for drafting and for sketching. The funny thing is that they cost under $12 each! I enjoyed drawing on vellum and mylar but did not like drawing on linen. Today I only use Vellum and for work ups and sketches I use Strathmore 400 or 500 series drawing paper. I use more of the vellum because I got a deal a few years back on 36" x 500' 20lbs. Rolls. I made a jig that is attached to the underside of my board that allows me to pull out and cut to size what I need much like a paper towel holder. I find while most drafting equipment has gone down in cost the same cannot be said for quality paper. Today a 100 sheet pack of 24"x36" is going for over $250.00 more if you want preprinted borders. When I first started working as a technician I was on the road a lot and witnessed the closing of many different industrial offices and shops. I have seen hundreds of drafting tables and equipment tossed in dumpsters. I have seen old Bridgeport mills and lathes being crushed by a dozer so nobody could take anything home. It turned out that they had to destroy anything of value for some stupid insurance reason. In some instances I did luck out and pick up things I could use. I was lucky one time when they were knocking down a old school. I found these 12" wide 1 3/4" thick 25 ft. long locker room benches made out of I believe to be yellow pine. I loaded up my truck with 30 of these, I gave some away and used them in projects for years. I got a bunch of 7 ft high 4 ft wide library book shelves made out of solid maple from a job site and used them in my cabin. I guess if your lucky enough you can find good equipment in strange ways. The one thing I wish I would have had the forethought for was when they were closing down the metal and wood shops in the school districts around me that I had attended the auctions. A friend told me he heard that they were pretty much giving the stuff away. I have nothing against those who use CAD only for their drawings, I just prefer paper and pencil vs. keystrokes and mouse clicks. Like I said I did purchase CAD software a few years back. Unfortunately I was unable to get the hang of it. I had also purchased a few architectural type software programs and those also were just not for me. I truly believe because of my years of study in architectural , graphic art and all the art classes having put every thought down on paper I am just unable to get into using a computer program for drawing. In the end I gave the software to a friend.

I would have to admit that it is a great rendition and would probably look pretty nice if framed. But may I ask, would a drawing of the same look better? I believe if it were drawn out by hand it would allow for wider choices as to shading and depth of color, again this would have to be done by someone with training in art and drafting. Years ago I found a set of blueprints for a ship. I was showing the prints to my brother in law and my sister and she just loved the sheet with the side profile of the ship. So I had a copy made and I built a nice frame of red oak and matted the print had a piece of glass cut to fit and gave it to her as a gift. Its been over 10 years and she still has it hanging in her living room. I doubt if the same could be done with a CAD drawing. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against CAD and I know this technology is needed and useful in today's manufacturing processes. I started this thread wondering if anyone was still drawing the old fashion way of using a drafting board. Plus I was wondering if others felt as I do when it comes to hand drawn vs. CAD. I was also wondering how others felt on the subject of the disappearance of Drafting, Wood/ Metal Shop classes from the public school system. I'm pleased to see so many had the ability to have had the opportunity to have taken these classes and are still benifiting from these learned skills. What I surprised about though is that there have been no responses to my added comment that when I went to school a semester of Home Economics Class was mandatory for both boys and girls. I'm sure there are a few out there who have been put into a situation where they find themselves single all of a sudden and I am certainly one of them. I was certainly grateful at the time to have been forced to take those classes. Thanks everyone for your input. Tim

I would clean all the under surfaces of my equipment daily. I hated having to clean up smudges so I would make a complete corrected drawing then for making the final ink drawing I overlaid a clean sheet and would trace the work from top down so I would have less chance of smearing.

I have all my drafting equipment from the 70's and care for it like I would of anything of value. I find today's drawing equipment lacking in quality of construction compared to some of my German made equipment. I am also surprised as I said at how inexpensive some of the quality equipment from the past is being sold as used on eBay. Its a dying field I suppose. I feel that drawings done on vellum/mylar in ink or pencil or blueprints from the same have more of an art quality vs. the sterile appearance of a CAD drawing. In school my main field of study was in the style of Queen Anne and Victorian architecture and those drawings can get quite busy. I too have collected blueprints of many different subjects over the years. I like the idea of knowing how much work it took to accomplish each drawing and as I have said I find them to be a form of art.

May I ask, what size and type of scanner do you have? I have wondered if scanning drawings were possible in a home office setting. Its hard to find local printing shops that have blueprint machines anymore. To have copies made of full sheet drawings (24"x36") I have to go a place that can handle a large format and it can get pretty costly.

I see your point on laying out lines for ship design. I have seen many uses of CAD here and I'm sure it helps with the more involved dimensional work. I doubt I could even come close to drawing a ship without some sort of reference drawing. I did take a typing class in school, but for the life of me I have never been able to type other then to peck away. LOL I guess you retain somethings and not others. One thing I seen here and cannot recall who it was that had it was a Drafting Tool I have but not thought of in years. It is a adjustable curve with weighted "Ducks" or thats what we called them because of their shape. It was a great tool for long curve work. See it brought back some good memories. I have complete sets of curves for all types of drawing and even though I have never done any ship design I still have a set of Draftsmen Ship Curves. I have tools and aids I really never needed but for some reason I felt I had to have them. I don't see why OCD would bother him in getting a engineering degree. I always took pride in my neatness while drawing. It was even more imperative when making final ink drawings, one slip and you have a smear that was almost impossible to remove.

My Father was furious with me especially since it was his money I spent. But even though he disagreed with my career choice he always supported me in my endeavors. Plus I think he enjoyed the fact he got some return on his investment in free auto maintenance for 30 years. As far as CAD goes I'm sure I could learn to use the program. I am into photography and video editing and have built my own personal computers for years in order to keep up with the best editing software. You need a lot of CPU power and RAM plus a bunch of storage, so I found it better to build my own with hardware I had researched for my needs then to settle with what the computer companies were offering . I know a CAD software would preform well on my desktop or laptops. I did purchase a CAD software back in 07 to see what it offered but ended up giving it to a buddy. I had even purchased a Home Design software around the same time but just could not get into really learning it and putting it to use and it too was given away. I enjoy my Drafting Board more then anything. Years back I felt I needed a bigger board so I designed and built my own. I went to a board size of 7'x5' out of 1" marine grade ply and Red Oak. I needed to be able to mount a Drafting Machine along with a Parallel Slide Bar. I designed it so I can easily adjust it to any angle I desire and attached two floating adjustable "Full Spectrum " lights so I don't get any shadowing along the edges of my straight edges. I built a cabinet that fits under with large slide out flat drawers for paper and drawing storage. I designed a device much like a paper towel holder which mounts to the underside so I can attach a bulk roll of drawing paper which allows me to pull out and slice of a 24"x36" piece. I have almost every drafting tool you can think of but from time to time I'll need a replacement or want for another template I have been surprised at how cheap drafting tools have become especially on eBay. When I was in school I used a certain brand of .05 mechanical pencil that I protected with my life because they cost $25.00 each and in the early 1970's that was a lot of money for a pencil. I found a better feeling and better made mechanical pencil a few years back that not only comes in .05 but also .03 and .09 for only $30.00 for all three.. I am shocked how inexpensive these drafting tools have become compared to back in the day. The only thing I found to have held if not gained in cost is Vellum or Mylar drawing stock which is surprising. But I agree, I cannot see anything to write home about when viewing a CAD drawing.

I loved shop classes and drafting classes in middle and high schools. I went on to college getting a degrees in architectural design and commercial graphic design and even though I had spent my youth looking forward to a life as an architect after graduation I had a change of heart. I had always like working with my hands and went back to school to get an associate degree in automotive/ diesel repair. I spent 20 years in the field as a auto/ diesel technician until I found myself spending another 15 years in the Labor Relations field. I made extra money in graphic design and some architectural design in the first few years after school but enjoyed working on vehicles more. I totally agree with you on rebuilding parts and making your own repairs around the house or vehicles. In the past it never crossed my mind to out source something that needed repairing or replacing. I even did repair jobs on the side ( which if found out could have cost me my licensing ) but it just bothered me that someone who needed help couldn't afford the cost for the work needed done. So I would offer to do the work for the bare minimum and for seniors for the cost of parts or materials. What I learned early on in school became the foundation of all I learned and done over the years. I have dabbled in so many different fields over my life and the things I had learned in school have carried me through all these years. I am too old to do many of the things I could easily have done in my youth but just this past summer I did a brake job on my vehicle, turning my own rotors myself. I was a little surprised I was still able to do it even though I was pretty sore the next day. As a side note and this might sound funny but while I was in High School is was mandatory for boys to take a class in Home Economics! I was fortunate for this early learning during my two divorces, I would have starved and never known how to sew. LOL

I'm just curious, does anyone still sit at a drafting board and design and draw anymore? What feels like a thousand years ago, I went to school to be an architect. To my Fathers dismay after graduation I chose to go into a unrelated profession. But I have used those skills I learned throughout my life. When I went to school CAD or computer technology was far off into the future. When CAD came into its own over time I never had any desire to take a class or had any use for it to be honest. IMHO I feel it is not a true form of drafting in the sense it is digital to where actual drafting to me is a form of art. I'm sure many will disagree with me and I know it is needed in today's digital world with CNC use and with digital 3D perspectives being the norm now for any form of construction or presentation. Maybe I'm just a dinosaur and set in my ways but I cannot see myself having the same sense of personal pride of of accomplishment showing off a digital design viewed from a computer screen or printed on a printer vs. something hand drawn on quality sheet of drafting film. I worked for a public school district and over the years I watched as they discontinued and dismantled the Middle and High School Drafting Classes along with the Wood and Metal Shop programs. THe teaching done today is focused in how to design in a digital world and how to program machines to do the actual work of construction. I watched as they gutted those rooms and shops, removing all the tools and machines and drafting tables. Those rooms today are carpeted and air conditioned and full of computers. Students are glued to computer screens all day never learning to take their own idea make a scaled drawing of it, to build it using their hands and machines and tools like their fathers and grandfathers. But in today's world of manufacturing this is what is needed to become employed. Its a shame that we no longer teach students to use their hands to design and create. Today your able to take a CAD design and using a CNC machine produce carvings in wood just as well as a craftsman had done by hand in the past. I guess in time craftsman will be a thing of the past. Sorry for the rant, I have searched through the forum and I'm just curious if anyone still sits at a Drafting Table and draws by hand anymore. If so, I would like to hear from you. Thanks, Tim

Looking forward to your next post. Great Work and Happy Holidays to all.

Sir, I just picked up a book called "Glasgow Museums, The Ship Models" while reading through it I ran across a quote by Harold A. Underhill Underhill instructs his readers, "for this class of model one must be willing to scrap any component which, either through accident or lack of skill, is not quite right and not to " make it do"... "Providing one is willing to take this little extra care, there is nothing in this model which is beyond the powers of the most ordinary model maker. One may as well have [ the details] right", he stressed, "even at the expense of a little extra trouble. He went on to say, "Although personally I do not regard such construction as extra trouble, rather as extra pleasure, for the joy of such a model is in the making" I read this quote and immediately your work came to mind. The way you have worked and reworked out assorted construction and design problems. Your ability to "scrap out" beautifully made parts ( IMHO) to only recreate and construct more intricate or suiting parts to your needs or designs to provide closer scale appearance just amazes me. Your skills as a model maker are truly amazing and I look forward to future installments. I would also hope you agree with me that Underhill's quote matches with your thoughts on model making. Tim

I am thinking of going with 1/2" = 1' for the build. Wikipedia has her OAL at 39.2' but MSM has her at 45' 9" over all. The set of plans I purchased from Model Shipways years ago are in a scale of 3/8" = 1' I'll have to figure out how much they will need to be enlarged to get me to the 1/2" = 1' scale. If anyone could help me with the math, by what percentage will I need to enlarge them when I have copies made? Tim

I found another copy up for bid on eBay hopefully I'll win the bid. This time I have written down the sellers info so I will know who posted it if the same thing happens again. There are images of some of the pages in the book and even though the set of plans do not go into detail I think the text should provide some needed information. Thanks again everyone,. Tim

Thanks for the info. I found some plans on the HAER website of fishing vessels constructed around the same time period and have some good details on construction methods of the period. I will probably use this information along with what is provided on the set of plans I have to build her. I'll also use a little "Modelers License " on problems where I do not have enough information.

I found this book on eBay and put in a bid. For some reason it disappeared from my bid page today when I went to see if I had won the bid it was gone! I wasn't out bid, it just vanished completely from my account page. No trace of it anywhere, as if I had never bid! I have never had this happen before. Unfortunately I did not record the sellers info and since my bid just vanished I'll have to try again. I hope I do not bid on a book from the same seller again. Thanks for the input.

This subject may be discussed elsewhere and if so I apologize. With that said, I am thinking of modeling the Emma C. Berry from scratch in a scale of 1/2" = 1' or 3/4" = 1' I plan on using Model Shipways ECB kit plans that are scaled at 3/8" = 1'. Unfortunately they have no information on the construction methods used in her original build. I am trying to figure out some details on how the ship was originally constructed back in 1866. First I am trying to figure out if she was put together using iron bolts for the framing or trunnels ? Was her planking installed with bolts or trunnels ? From the few images of her I have found on the internet ,I was able to see that the knee bracing was attached to the deck framing with what appear to be iron bolts. I was not able see any framing detail as far as joints. I also wonder if the bolts I did see were possibly from restorations or modification she may have recieved over the years. I also wonder how the frames themselves were were constructed. I wish to model her in a larger scale so I can get into modeling in the finer details. I would appreciate any help I can get. Thanks All, Tim

I used "Selective Hearing" and "Sudden Stupidity " both worked for about 5 years. Then she caught on and now after 25 years, if she senses a slight lack of motivation or movement "Large Heavy Objects" come at me at high velocity until I have Heard and Fully Understood! NEVER POKE THE BEAR!

IMHO I would paint the interior of the funnels a flat black