uss frolick

another close up of the open end of one of the arms

thanks for all the likes and welcome ken
 
here is another picture from the wreck in Mauritius, it is labelled as a stanchion but I thought it might br a hammock crane but it is very large? any ideas anybody what it might be??
 
 
photo courtesy of yann von arnim

It continued at Galion. See for yourselves. And yet a side view of the vessel.
 
Regards Kay

Hegner blades are not hard to change,but maybe I'm used to them.
 
But the old Delta's Jack-the-Ripper Stabber-Blades ...

Hegner blades are not hard to change,but maybe I'm used to them.
 
But the old Delta's Jack-the-Ripper Stabber-Blades ...

Mr. Bruckshaw's model is of the c. 1749 Boston, the earliest known plan of an American-built warship.

My first cheap scroll saw was a Delta. It shook so hard and broke so many blades, I called it "The Delta Saw of Death."  Since then , I picked up a used  Hegner Scroll Saw, from Switzerland, or Germany, or somewhere mountainous and cold, I forget. It is very expensive, especially if new, but it was used a lot by jewelers, and it is smooth and almost vibration free. Roman Barzana, the Tampa-based discoverer of Loquat Wood [snap!  ], turned me on to the bright-orange Hegner saws.

Mr. Bruckshaw's model is of the c. 1749 Boston, the earliest known plan of an American-built warship.

Mr. Bruckshaw's model is of the c. 1749 Boston, the earliest known plan of an American-built warship.

My first cheap scroll saw was a Delta. It shook so hard and broke so many blades, I called it "The Delta Saw of Death."  Since then , I picked up a used  Hegner Scroll Saw, from Switzerland, or Germany, or somewhere mountainous and cold, I forget. It is very expensive, especially if new, but it was used a lot by jewelers, and it is smooth and almost vibration free. Roman Barzana, the Tampa-based discoverer of Loquat Wood [snap!  ], turned me on to the bright-orange Hegner saws.

My first cheap scroll saw was a Delta. It shook so hard and broke so many blades, I called it "The Delta Saw of Death."  Since then , I picked up a used  Hegner Scroll Saw, from Switzerland, or Germany, or somewhere mountainous and cold, I forget. It is very expensive, especially if new, but it was used a lot by jewelers, and it is smooth and almost vibration free. Roman Barzana, the Tampa-based discoverer of Loquat Wood [snap!  ], turned me on to the bright-orange Hegner saws.

Matrim, you have one nice library!

Draught Marks
while reading through all the build logs and topics I have seen a couple of discussions about draught marks
below is the picture of syrius marks made out of copper
 
photo courtesy of yann von arnim
Copper draught marks in the shape of roman numerals I,III, X, XI, XII and XVII have been found near the stern of the ship

It gives you a clue as to what the interior of the Titanic might have looked like, after only one year, in 1913.

Another photos 
 

 

 

 

That looks like a first post to me ... Welcome  !!!!  

Just be advised - a plank-on-bulkhead (POB) model isn't a walk in the park, either.  Each method has its own skill set and learning curve, and there's hardly any way to decide which one you would like better until you've tried both.  Don't be overly swayed by modelers who swear by one or the other.  Their experiences are not a sure indicator of your future preferences.
 
Before waffling on the POB vs. solid hull question, take a step back and ask yourself, what model(s) really, really appeal to you on a visceral level?  Knowing the answer to that question will narrow down the search for you.

Hi, uss frolick.
 
There were a bunch of 18pdrs built at Nantes. The yard was in the commune of Basse-Indre which was roughly 8 km downriver of Nantes. There was 1 x Lamothe, 2 x Gautiers, 3 x Forfaits, and 6 x Sanés built and launched by 1808. You would have 10 x Sanés by going to 1812.
 
Créole, One-off design, Lamothe, launched 1797
Uranie, Clorinde - Uranie class, Gautier, launched 1800
Belle Poule, Surveillante - Virginie class, Sané, launched 1802
Gloire, Gloire class, Forfait, launched 1803
Président, Gloire class, Forfait, launched 1804
Topaze, Gloire class, Forfait, launched 1805
Pallas, Elbe, Renomeé – Pallas class, Sané, launched 1808
4 more Pallas class, Sané, launched between 1810 and 1812
 
Then there were some built in the commune of Paimboeuf, on the south bank, about 30 km downstream of Nantes and about 10 km upstream of St Nazaire. I include these because the yard governance was the same and they shared staff.
 
Clorinde – Pallas class, Sané, launched 1808
4 more Pallas class, Sané, launched between 1810 and 1813
 
You can do a nice comparison between Sané and Forfait from the Chaumont Papers (SHD, Vincennes and Rochefort). Jean-François Chaumont was an Ingénieur, whose career extended from 1793 to 1828, at Brest, Rochefort, La Havre, ingénieur à la direction des constructions at Rochefort and Cherbourg, and directeur des constructions at Lorient. He made many of the drawings himself and they show not only the plans received by the dockyards, but also details of the yard’s implementation. They were, in effect, his ‘book’.
 

 
The Forfait is of Venus and Junon; both Gloire class, like Topaze, but built at Le Havre (launched 1806). The Sané is unidentified. There’s lots of interesting things in the comparison that may help identify vessels as to ‘design style’, if not ‘designer’.
 
Body sections are an obvious difference (‘apple’ vs ‘heart’), and the difference in bow waterline fullness is apparent on the half-breadths. The bilge area was what I was pinging on when looking at the bow oblique photo. But there’s some other differences, too. Contrary to what I have heard, Forfaits had deeper tumble-home than Sanés, at least after Sané’s 1802 Hortense class. Also (still being contrary) the rake of the stern face is darn near the same (within scale measurement limits).
 
One really helpful aid is examining the bowsprit steeve. Forfait went early to a 20-22 degree steeve, with the bowsprit stepped on the main deck. Sané kept to the traditional 28-30 degrees, with the bowsprit stepped on the lower deck (at least till 1810 when steeve got lowered). One has to be careful with this, since the RN ‘always’ (inter alia) reduced steeve of captured French ships, so the provenance of a plan must be considered.
 
The Forfait drawings show two different transom timbering configurations. One has vertical transom timbers (the body plan); one has traditional horizontal transom timbers (the aft profile plan). Not of interest, here, but notably, one can see his vertical stern timbering (same on both iterations) and see exactly where the 8 lights come from (clearly #1 and #8 are false).
 
Seriously cool stuff ! The French archives are an intellectual ‘feast’, laid out in front of a starveling ! I have a bunch of Chaumont papers in my stash, but not these. I shamelessly scanned the images from my Boudriot book on French Frigates.
 
[edit] posted more on the 'plans and research' thread. Thought it more appropriate.
 
Ciao. John

Don't you think the stern view on page 92, bottom, of Modeles Historiques, shows a more of a v-shape?
 
Anyway, the only other frigate plans that I have seen with eight windows, or any even number of windows, is Forfait's Topaze of 1804 (HMS Alcmene, 1809), and of course Forfait's large L'Immortalitie class. Although Topaze's counter timbers have greater rake than the Renomme's model, they have less rake than the average Sane ship. Topaze and Renomme were both built in Nantes, two years apart, and I can't think of any other Nantes built 18-pounder frigates.

I agree. We should always interpret the lines of a ship from a small 2D photograph of a model at our peril! Ditto unusual winkie placement.

Yeah. I would love to continue this. It's kinda like meat and potatoes. I  would like to participate in that.
 
I was just doing a bit of critical thinking on what I could see on the photos. Critical thinking gives no answers. It just tends to help to keep us from ... um ... er ... well .. sticking our winkie into the windmill. Sincerely hope I did not offend.
 
John

I agree. We should always interpret the lines of a ship from a small 2D photograph of a model at our peril! Ditto unusual winkie placement.

Don't you think the stern view on page 92, bottom, of Modeles Historiques, shows a more of a v-shape?
 
Anyway, the only other frigate plans that I have seen with eight windows, or any even number of windows, is Forfait's Topaze of 1804 (HMS Alcmene, 1809), and of course Forfait's large L'Immortalitie class. Although Topaze's counter timbers have greater rake than the Renomme's model, they have less rake than the average Sane ship. Topaze and Renomme were both built in Nantes, two years apart, and I can't think of any other Nantes built 18-pounder frigates.

Well, they say digression is often good for the soul, so what the hey. Went to the Museum collection and looked closely at the photos of La Renommée. Putting the good old Eyeball, Mark-1 to work, I found some things worth noting.
 

 
I do believe the oblique bow photo suggests a more ‘apple’ shape than a ‘heart’ shape. There’s shadows at the turn of the bilge in the midships region. I think these shadows are more consistent with the ‘turn of the bilge curve’ of the ‘apple’ shape than with the relative straight bilge definition of the ‘heart’ shape (which would turn higher, generally in the neighborhood of the upper part of the green crud). I look at the hull and see more ‘apple’ than ‘heart’, but that’s completely subjective.
 
Yep, the model depicts a beakhead. Bottom left, you can see (barely) the catheads and the cross piece, with the bowsprit entry below, but on the same vertical station plane as the catheads. Bottom right shows the forecastle and way up in the upper-left corner, one can see a darkish blop that is the cross piece for the catheads. You can see bollards and the first drift rail up to the fore mast, but then open space. Not consistent with a round bow.
 
I know the ‘real’ issue has to do with her stern: 7 lights or 8 lights, and what’s-up with the angularity at the outside edges and the open railing. I’m as much at a loss as anyone on this part. But basically, the model is pretty much a Sané, in my humble opinion.
 
John

Thanks John!  One of the unique features of the La Renomme model is the upright nature of her counter timbers - practically no rake at all. Your sail plan shows the same characteristic. Sane ships usually had a great, gracefully looking rake. One thing that I can not determine, based on the dozen or so photographs that I have seen,  about the La Renomme Model, is whether she had a beak-head bulkhead, of a full bow. If anyone sees the model in person, place make note!