Mystery topsail over gaff

[MAK41]

I'll try to attach my photo but it is a 4-sided topsail but I can't figure how to sheet it off. Is this properly rigged. This is how I got it but it doesn't fit anything I know of.  Almost looks like a flying fisherman off a schooner.  (I have the hull but I mounted the rig in this plank just to untangle and figgure out the rigging.) Thanks in advance for any input.  I Google searched for over an hour and can't find anything similar.  Maybe I just don't know the right key words?

[capnharv2]

I looks to me like a main topsail with the tack cut wrong. Here's how it should look:

 

 

The bottom of the sail shouldn't be squared off like that-the tack should come to a point for the downhaul attachment.

 

If it were me, I'd trim the sail where it overlaps the gaff, and trim it to a point-like in the attached picture.

 

There are a lot of different sail configurations around the world, but I've not seen this before either. I think it's cut wrong, but there are wiser people here who may have better ideas.

 

Anyway, I hope that helps.

 

Thanks,

 

Harvey

[wefalck]

One should know the type of boat first. Square topsails rigged on a very short flying yard have been in use on commercial ships until about the last quarter of the 19th century. It then became replaced by the three-sided variant. On sport boats four-sided topsails on a longer, almost vertical yard were used into around the 1920s. So, one really needs to know the type of ship/boat in order to comment on the way of rigging.

 

BTW, the run of sail cloths on the mainsail is rather unusual in being horizontal. They would normally be parallel to the mast or to the after edge.

[MAK41]

Absolutely, Wefalck.  Another hour of searching (I type slowly ...from the shoulder) and I found some relevant photos (I've uploaded an album "19th Century Sloops").  I'm still a bit unsure how I'll lead the sheet with the clew dipping below the throat but maybe, when I get the sail turned around and on a yard, it'll meet the mast at the throat. Or, like some in the album, there will be a gap.  The one I see where there is a dip below the gaff, I think it appears to be lead to the main boom. Not sure how that would work.

As for the cloth; you're right about that too.  I didn't loft these.  It seems to be prevalent in pond boats that the design is more of a modern style.  These sails on my boat are one piece cotton with stitching to simulate lofted sails.  I expect from the quality of work that this is a novice's home-built pond boat of no particular make.  A run of the mill sloop / perhaps cutter.  Her hull dimensions are LOD 23.5", LWL 22.75", Beam 4.5", Draft 4.5", Freeboard 1.25" (with no sheer), Mast step is 10" aft of stem on deck. The bow is a spoon bow that is quite like that of a cat boat. From my rigging setup I’ve determined these staysails had their tacks made fast about 1.5” apart from one another, on a 3” bow sprit.

Quite good for what it is, I've rescued it at a bargain price which will no doubt run me a goodly sum to finish up but, a good winter project.

Where is the best place to shop for small fittings if I'm not too concerned with authenticity? (Or should I start a second thread?)

[wefalck]

Actually, I may have been wrong concerning the run of the cloths in the mainsail. The photo by capnharv2 above shows the cloths running perpendicular to the after leech. There may be a difference between sports boats and working boats in that respect. I am not so knowledgeable in pleasure boats.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

Here are two drawings of topsails.

I agree with Wefalck that more information about the model and the vessel should be included.

The line coming off the bottom of the sail is the Tack. The Sheet is actually the line that would hold the Clew of the sail to the end of the Mainsail Gaff.

The mainsail should be laced to the Gaff and it is not in your photo.

 

The tack of the sail should not be so far off the line of the luff of the sail as it is in the model in the photo- this is the area on your sail that is the shortest of the four sides and I think it is an error of the person who cut the sails. The luff of a gaff topsail often has a kink in it to follow the contour of the mast doubling and the gaff jaws, called a Knock I think, with the luff bellow this "kink" still running as close to the mast as possible so the tack can lead straight down to the deck and be made off as close to the foot of the mast as possible On your sail the "fourth side" has I think been misunderstood by the person who cut the sails, he or she saw the kink in the luff and interpreted it as one of four corners on a four cornered sail.

 

The second of the two photos shows a Jackyard Topsail but I believe your sail is a Gaff Topsail.

 

Often there are two tacks on such sails, allowing for sailing on either tack. In many cases however there is just a single tack and thus on one tack the sail would be a bit messy but still able to draw.

Edited October 9, 2015 by JerseyCity Frankie

[MAK41]

Thank you one and all!  More thoughts: I posted a gallery album 19th Century Sloops and because I am not sure about how postings and links work, I've added a comment to the album and will copy it here, below.

 

In my post about Mystery Topsail; I've settled on (but not cemented in) the notion that the topsail which came with my model, is either strung upside-down and, the short side should be on a yard at the top (as in the picture above http://modelshipworld.com/uploads/gallery/album_1291/sml_gallery_21953_1291_261.jpg) or more like the lowest sail configuration shown above on the green hull; http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/gallery/image/12302-19th-cnty-gaff-rigged-4/ but, I'm not as sure about this latter rigging as the dimensions of my sail would make the fitting awkward.  The middle picture; http://modelshipworld.com/uploads/gallery/album_1291/sml_gallery_21953_1291_5874.jpg (in silhouette) shows, and there are better examples to be found, that more than a "cut-out" for the throat of the gaff, some sails were lead at the tack to a point on one side of the main, to a belay pin at the base of the mast.  Sails were set on one side or another for long legs on that tack and seldom were tacked as frequently as pleasure boaters do.  Much tacking required? Then the topsail was probably not set at all.

 

Would anyone concur?

[MAK41]

To wefalck; Actually; I have found numerous photos of 19th century sloops, cutters and schooners to support the idea that the vertical cloth panel design was more common.  There is always innovation in sail design and probably never more true than in the golden age of sail.  They didn't have computers or wind tunnels but the on-board sailmakers had a lot of time and sometimes great incentive!  I recently remarked to my friend, about another subject concerning square rigged ship sails, that in a run for its life from a privateer or, if trying to run a blockade, a square rigged ship would hang laundry from every yardarm, rail and broomstick!  Those 'ol sailors of yore were, in a word, creative.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

I would still love to hear more information about the model itself and the vessel it represents. Without such information there is not going to be a lot of informed speculation to offer.

[MAK41]

JerseyCity Frankie: I was unsuccessful at uploading the pix I have, here in the reply text so, I've uploaded a new photo album under private collections, titled; New Model Pond Boat.  These pictures represent all that I know of the style and "replica" attempt by the builder. One picture is of the model I have in the advertisement where I bought it.  Another is of the model after I opened the box on day one.  The third is a picture a friend found. It is another ad for a "sister ship" model.  I did not put the bowsprit on my model when I had taken the pix.  There was an unusually long dowel packed with the boat that had some flattening at one end. I assume this was to facilitate the sprit having an upward angle.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

The website has a tutorial on how to add photos to the things you are posting. You were able to upload a phot in the first post above I see.

You also mention an album of photos you call 19th Century Sloops? When I do a search using this title there is nothing, is this the exact title? You should be able to simply cut and past the text of the URL into an message so people can go to the album just by clicking on it, as I have done here:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/540-how-to-add-pictures-in-your-posts-and-pms/

Edited October 11, 2015 by JerseyCity Frankie

[MAK41]

Well, I had the three pix inserted but received and error msg. stating I couldn't use that file extension ...whixh was .jpg ... the same as the pic in the first post. IDK

So, anyways this is getting off topic... I will read through the tutorial, Thanks.

I'll try adding the url to pix below.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/uploads/gallery/album_1299/gallery_21953_1299_87917.jpg

Sister ship

 

http://modelshipworld.com/uploads/gallery/album_1299/gallery_21953_1299_26177.jpg

Original ad

 

http://modelshipworld.com/uploads/gallery/album_1299/gallery_21953_1299_10368.jpg

My first pic out of box.

Edited October 12, 2015 by MAK41