Thermopylae by Scientific

[smarinid]

I am working on a Thermopylae by Scientific. I don't want to use the cast metal blocks and deadeyes if I can help it but I am not sure of the right sizes. The model is 21"L x 3 7/16"w and approx. 11 1/2 "tall. any suggestions? I was thinking maybe 2.5mm blocks and 3mm deadeyes.

Edited July 12, 2013 by smarinid

[smarinid]

Wow! Out of 21 people, no one has a thought? I guess sometimes even in model ship world, one can stand alone. Does no one like the Thermopylae for some reason? Or just clipper ships in general? There isn't one build log in here for her. I personally think they are the most beautiful and stately ships to have ever been built. Oh well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say.   

[russ]

One reason for the lack of responses is that this kit is long gone and really obscure. It may be that no one who has had time to look at your request is familar with the kit.

 

That said, another reason for the lack of responses to date is that you are asking a question that requires a HUGE amount of research to get the answer. It may be that those of us with access to the research material simply have not had the time so far to put together the information you want. To get the size of every block and deadeye needed will take some time, if all of that information can be found at all.

 

My advice would be to get a good book on rigging clipper ships, like Harold Underhill's Masting and Rigging the Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier. It is dated, but it pretty much the bible for rigging clipper ships. Even so, it will not answer every question about block and deadeye sizes.

 

There are plans for the Cutty Sark that sold by the Cutty Sark trust over in Great Britain. Those plans are, I hear, very detailed. I am not sure of the current prices or address, but I am betting a internet search will bring up the site where you can order the plans. That might be a good source for you.

 

Good luck with your project.

 

Russ

[smarinid]

Thanks Russ.

I'll look into the book.

Thought that maybe with the experience and wonderful expertise exhibited here, I would be able to get a quick response. I didn't stop to think about the particulars of finding that info. 

Actually the kit seems to be quite plentiful on e-bay (where I got mine) these days. Certainly if not the Therm then the Cutty. I have been surprised to see as many avail. as I have. Note: not always at a great price and (as you can tell) I am finding that the older kits present a few issues I hadn't thought of when I decided to try one . Much prefer the newer kits.

 

 

Mark

Edited July 13, 2013 by smarinid

[fnkershner]

Another problem you have is the scale. This is a very small scale for this ship. If you want to stay true to scale you will find that 3 mm blocks are about the largest you will use. I suggest the most common block you will use is 2 mm. Even this is out of scale but it will be the best you can find. No one makes a smaller block. Do you have a list of blocks that come with the kit? Both size and quantity? I suggest that is where I would start. By trying to replace each of the metal blocks with a similar wood block. About 20 yrs ago one of my first kits was the Flying Cloud by Scientific. I would bet that we had the same solid hull and much of the kit was the same. I found the rigging very challenging due to the scale. I never finished her.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Floyd Kershner

[smarinid]

Hi Floyd. 

Yes, it is quite small and staying as close to scale as poss. is one goal although I am sure it will be off a bit here and there. There is no parts list with the kit so my next best option I think, is to research (pics) and go from there. I have counted the deadeyes and blocks so I figure if I get a few more than is in the kit I should be relatively safe. The other issue I will have is replacing some of the other metal parts. Some of which either are not made at all, or no where near the scale I will need. Might be a good time to see if my skills at carving and such are up to snuff.

Thanks.

 

Mark

[fnkershner]

Good Luck! In my case I found that my skills and frustration could not overcome the limitations of the kit itself. But it did get me hooked into this crazy hobby. You might want to consider a better quality kit or an easier kit to get your skills up to the task.

[Micklen32]

Hi smarinid

 

I did the Sergal version of Thermopylae a few years ago

The scale was 1:124

I cannot really remember sizes as everything was supplied but I know the blocks etc

Well

Everything

Was tiny   

 

I did do a site about the build apart from the very end of it

You will see a link in my signature

I am not sure if it will help at all

 

Keep it up  

Mick

[smarinid]

Hi Mick.

Small on this kit, is absolutely the order of the day.

Thanks for the link! It gives me another shot at comparisons.

Beautiful work on your Therm. kit by the way.

 

Mark

 

Good Luck! In my case I found that my skills and frustration could not overcome the limitations of the kit itself. But it did get me hooked into this crazy hobby. You might want to consider a better quality kit or an easier kit to get your skills up to the task.

 

I am a bit tenacious Floyd, so frustration will be a regular visitor I am sure. Hopefully I can whip this kit into submission. I have done the John Alden Sloop as my first build (pics in my gallery). It went swimmingly, although if not for another members build log, maybe not so much. I am not so concerned as to the exact scale or necessarily the exact look of the Therm. but I do want to make the kit with the best workmanship I can muster.

Thanks for your vote of luck. I'm betting i'll need it on more than one occasion..lol

[historyguysteve]

Mark

    I'm also exited to see someone else doing these scientific kits. They are indeed plentiful on e-bay, evidently lots of people bought them back in the day as father/son projects and eventually slid the forlorn kit under the bed or put them in the back of the closet. Thank heaven for e-bay that brings these kits back into the light of day. They are a great display size and excellent training ground before one moves to more complex(and hideously expensive) built-up models.

   As for your question about blocks here is my solution (after all this art form is about problem solving). Go to the local hobby center - hobby lobby, michaels or whatever. Go to the beading part of the store. There you will find beads of all sizes and colors. I use the very smallest for parrals to attach the yards to the mast - usually still a bit overscale but much more accurate than just pinning them on the mast. Look for a slightly larger bead for the rigging and here is the trick for accuracy. Spear the bead onto a toothpick or other appropriate tool. Get out your sanding disk on a motor tool and sand a very fine flat area on the outside diameter. A tedious task but the results are well worth it, once you have a system you can do a great many in a short time. Then in the actual rigging stage plan it all out. Wrap your 'rope' around the outside diameter, then seize it and then(most importantly) fix it permanently with a tiny drop of cyanoacrylate glue (super glue), get the medium viscosity stuff or it will simply glue the bead hole shut. Give yourself plenty of rope to attach to the standing end. Then get on with it, that is use the 'block' like an actual block. Experiment a bit to settle upon the size beads you use and feel free to use multiple sizes appropriate to the task the block/tackle is to perform. As for double or triple blocks, you'll have to resort to wood blocks-try model shipways site, there are others.

     Someone else mentioned getting research material- I'm a history professor so I heartily agree with that sentiment- e-bay to the rescue again. Underhill, Biddelcome, Crothers, Davis and Petersen are all great names in the published works- Some of those authors were ship captains in the age of sail so they are authoritative.

Hope this helps

   Steve.

[smarinid]

Sounds like an option well worth looking into Steve. With my newly acquired 4 in disk sander, that sounds like a relatively easy and fast way to go.

Although I do like doing the pob builds, there is def. something to be said for some of these older kits. Most importantly (for me...no room..lol... and those others who may be displaying my builds) the size is awesome for display.

I will be looking into some rigging literature for sure. Thanks for your input.

 

Mark