HMS Mordaunt Lanthorns

[michaelpsutton2]

I am beginning a painting of the HMS Mordaunt  1682 or at least using the data from the 1682 survey. It lists three poop lanthorns and one top lanthorns. The Van de Velde drawings show them to be of the circular type.Are there any extant sources from the period which will give some guidance as to their sizes?

[allanyed]

Michael

Extant, I don't know, but do you have Richard Endsor's The Master Shipwright's Secrets?  He has a lot of information on Mordaunt  Between the various  VdV drawings in his book and RMG you may be able to deduce the lantern sizes.  What surprised me is that Endsor does not show the lanterns on his own drawings/paintings that are in the book.  The following can be found on the RMG site as well and MAYBE could help.

Allan

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by allanyed

[druxey]

The Van de Velde drawings have been shown to be extremely accurate, so I think you could use those as a reliable guide. The figures on the stern balconies will also assist in determining their size.

[michaelpsutton2]

I do have Endsor's book. He doesn't really say. I was just hoping that somewhere,any where there might be a source which gave the size for a third, fourth or fith rate of a reasonably close date. Just as a bsae line. I'll bet it was not standardized. There is of course the well known entry in Pepys diary where he claimed to have lured /dragged a women into the lantern of some naval ship and groped her at lunch on launching day. Certainly not acceptable behaviour today. He was notorious for demanding sexual favors from married women in order to advance their husbands careers. Not much use though he does not mention how tall the lady in question may have been

[michaelpsutton2]

Now a second question on the same vessel. How deep were sprit topsails? Deep enough to reach under the bowsprit and sheet down on the  spritsail yard arms or just deep enough to hang staight down level with the height of the spritsail yard above water? It would take some might long "sheet pendants" or such. Until you start looking there are very few paintings from the 1600's with sprit topsails set.Most if not almost all show them furled on the yard.

[druxey]

Sprit topsails seem to extend down to the bowsprit top or end, more or less, when set. Although this image is both Spanish and modern, English practice must have been similar. Harland, Seamanship in the Age of Sail, shows a sketch where the sail extends to the spritsail yard c.1700. In that case, the spritsail yard is set much closer to the end of the bowsprit.Take your pick!

 

[michaelpsutton2]

The only contemporary picture I have found is  in "Great Ships" Frank Fox: a Van de Velde "Capture of the old prince. The sprit topsail is luffing around but appears very deep.

[michaelpsutton2]

[Mark P]

Good Morning Michael;

 

See below a photograph of a document dated 1690/91 which lists all the sizes of globe lanterns to be provided for ships. I can't tell you which size would go with which rate, but you will know that the largest 7ft x 4ft (and a half inch) will be for first rates. 

 

Although this does not give top lanterns, other info I have states that for first rates with a poop lantern of 7ft high, the height of the top lantern will be 5' 7" so work in the same proportion and you won't be too far off.

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

 

 

The below extract is from the 1680s, and gives the number of panes of glass for each lantern, although, as there are 296 in the largest size, I doubt that you will want to go to this much detail! The largest raking lantern has 'only' 220 panes, interestingly.

 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Mark P

[allanyed]

Mark,

Fantastic information that is going into my data bank.

Allan

[druxey]

That is brilliant, Mark! Thank you for sharing this.

[michaelpsutton2]

Gentlemen ! Thank you. Positively perfect.