HMS Triton by James Flynn - POB - Beginning My learning of the construction of ships of the line

[James Flynn]

Origenaley, I started wanting to build a monster 1st rate ship of the line the 1812 Montebello. However, after much research and advice from others on this forum learned it was a wiser decision to change my plans and that building a 1st rate would be too much to try and tackle for my skill level. Others directed me to this H.M.S Triton and though I really wanted to build a multi gun deck ship like a 3rd rate I decided to take you all's advice and start small and learn what I could. After making that decision I was set on building a POF so I could learn as much as posable but have reconsidered that as well. so, know I am starting an HMS Triton POB build. Thought this way I can learn the basic's and when I'm ready to tackle the 3rd rate then I will build that ship in POF. 

So that's enough on that. let's get things started. First, I finally got everything I need to start printed but I'm looking at the center bord or keel peace and it looks like the bulkhead slots are 3/8's in. thick is that correct? Just seems a little thick in my thinking. Also, should the center board or keel also be 3/8's in. thick as well? Also, Luan is 1/4'' thick I'm thinking on gluing two pieces together and then sanding or planning it down to get that 3/8's thickness and just thought I would see what you all thought about that decision? 

[AnobiumPunctatum]

3/8''  = 9,5mm I think this is really thick for the bulkheads and the centerboards. 1/4'' = 6,35mm is looking ok for a model in 1/48 or 1/64. If you choose a smaller scale you can make the bulkheads thinner.

In which scale do yoou plan to build her?

I wisch you a lot of fun on your journey.

[James Flynn]

18 hours ago, AnobiumPunctatum said:

3/8''  = 9,5mm I think this is really thick for the bulkheads and the centerboards. 1/4'' = 6,35mm is looking ok for a model in 1/48 or 1/64. If you choose a smaller scale you can make the bulkheads thinner.

In which scale do yoou plan to build her?

I wisch you a lot of fun on your journey.

The plans printed in 1/48 scale I was thinking 1/4'' was the more acerate choice but the plans print everything at 3/8'' and everything I have been reading from others builds its looking like 3/8s is correct, but I still feel better about the 1/4'' thickness however I would hate to start get everything built up at 1/4'' and then find the flaw and be forced to half to start over. to do everything in 1/4 I would half to adjust all the plans and I'm thinking they have spent allot of time getting everything just the way it should and looking it all over they have done a great job putting these plans together. Still, I'm torn.     

[AnobiumPunctatum]

1/48 is a real nice scale. If you have the space at home for the finished model I would go with this scale.The original drawings in the RMG are in this scale.

 

I am a bit surprised. As far as I know the PDF's of the drawings are in 1/48 prepared. You should also have access to the POF drawings. They are a really good add on for a POB build and in 1/48.

If you need to scale a PDF you can simply change the scale by printing. The cross section was many years ago my first wooden try.

Edited November 17, 2024 by AnobiumPunctatum

[James Flynn]

57 minutes ago, AnobiumPunctatum said:

1/48 is a real nice scale. If you have the space at home for the finished model I would go with this scale.The original drawings in the RMG are in this scale.

 

I am a bit surprised. As far as I know the PDF's of the drawings are in 1/48 prepared. You should also have access to the POF drawings. They are a really good add on for a POB build and in 1/48.

If you need to scale a PDF you can simply change the scale by printing. The cross section was many years ago my first wooden try.

Yes, I did get the POF downloads as well and looking at them after both halves of the double frame are joined together the frame is still 3/8'' thick I'm wondering if I build in 1/4'' and move all the forward bulkheads from the center bulkhead to the forward edge line drown on the plans of the center board and the aft bulkheads to the back edge line drown on the plans would the build come out correct. I like the 1/48 scale and reducing the bulkheads in print would drop the scale down which I would rather not do.         

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Now I understand your problem. The double frames are only for a POF build. You need the files in folder "POB drawings". The frames are not visible and much more simplificated.

[James Flynn]

On 11/17/2024 at 3:50 AM, AnobiumPunctatum said:

Now I understand your problem. The double frames are only for a POF build. You need the files in folder "POB drawings". The frames are not visible and much more simplificated.

This is one frame from the POB set and one frame from the POF set of plans after printing 

[James Flynn]

The center board (Keel) is 5/16 and came out 34'' long so that looks right 

[AnobiumPunctatum]

If you like to use thinner bulkheads you have to rework the cutout in the centerboard. Forwards from middle bulkhead (0) you have to change the fore edge of the cutout and backwards the after edge.

Then everything should work again. What is the thickness of the centerboard? 

[James Flynn]

21 hours ago, AnobiumPunctatum said:

If you like to use thinner bulkheads you have to rework the cutout in the centerboard. Forwards from middle bulkhead (0) you have to change the fore edge of the cutout and backwards the after edge.

Then everything should work again. What is the thickness of the centerboard? 

Center board is  5/16ths

 

[James Flynn]

 

21 hours ago, AnobiumPunctatum said:

If you like to use thinner bulkheads you have to rework the cutout in the centerboard. Forwards from middle bulkhead (0) you have to change the fore edge of the cutout and backwards the after edge.

Then everything should work again. What is the thickness of the centerboard? 

What I'm really worried about is the bulkhead size did my print come out correct or is something bad wrong 

[AnobiumPunctatum]

If you print the parts of the model check on your program that the scale of the printout is 100% and not fitted to sid or something similiar. You can check the scale of each print out with the ruler shown on every PDF. It is given the length  of 10 feet in the scale 1/48. In metric scale it's exact 63.5mm. Don't worry about your thoughts. It's the beginning of a really long journey. For me the MSW project was also the start in scratch building.

If you have not much experience I can recommend the cross section as a really  good entry point. It hase the same scale as the full hull build but is much less complicated.

[James Flynn]

On 11/23/2024 at 1:08 AM, AnobiumPunctatum said:

If you print the parts of the model check on your program that the scale of the printout is 100% and not fitted to sid or something similiar. You can check the scale of each print out with the ruler shown on every PDF. It is given the length  of 10 feet in the scale 1/48. In metric scale it's exact 63.5mm. Don't worry about your thoughts. It's the beginning of a really long journey. For me the MSW project was also the start in scratch building.

If you have not much experience I can recommend the cross section as a really  good entry point. It hase the same scale as the full hull build but is much less complicated.

Ok I'm pretty sure I understand everything you are telling me; I would like to say Thank you for taking time to chat with me about my build it means allot I'm thinking everything is in good shape the way it printed its just my lack of understanding with all this. I have build a few boats and from plans much like these but all of those had all the work done all I had to do was cut and glue  with this there's allot of things to consider and I just want to try my best to get things as correct as posable in the beginning foundation of the build in an attempt to avoid future problem's as I get deeper into the ship. Origenaley in the beginning I was thinking 3/8 might be too big to build my frames out of but I went and got a piece of 1/4 and cut it out and the uprights look to small, and flimsy was wondering would you recommend I use 1/4 or the 3/8'' stock?

[James Flynn]

On 11/23/2024 at 1:08 AM, AnobiumPunctatum said:

If you print the parts of the model check on your program that the scale of the printout is 100% and not fitted to sid or something similiar. You can check the scale of each print out with the ruler shown on every PDF. It is given the length  of 10 feet in the scale 1/48. In metric scale it's exact 63.5mm. Don't worry about your thoughts. It's the beginning of a really long journey. For me the MSW project was also the start in scratch building.

If you have not much experience I can recommend the cross section as a really  good entry point. It hase the same scale as the full hull build but is much less complicated.

Also, another question I have when I printed the plans, I ended up with what looks like 4 decks, and I was thinking there is supposed to only be 3 I got plans of the Quarter deck fore castle deck which in my thinking is the top exposed deck, then the gun deck, and then the lower deck but I also got one called the for and after platforms which shows the sail room carpenters store room, Gunnards store room< Boatswains store room, slop room,- - - - 

 

Is this the verry bottom of the ship which only becomes relevant with the POF construction or is all this how the lower deck is laid out?   

[James Flynn]

On 11/23/2024 at 1:08 AM, AnobiumPunctatum said:

If you print the parts of the model check on your program that the scale of the printout is 100% and not fitted to sid or something similiar. You can check the scale of each print out with the ruler shown on every PDF. It is given the length  of 10 feet in the scale 1/48. In metric scale it's exact 63.5mm. Don't worry about your thoughts. It's the beginning of a really long journey. For me the MSW project was also the start in scratch building.

If you have not much experience I can recommend the cross section as a really  good entry point. It hase the same scale as the full hull build but is much less complicated.

Wow I'm looking at all these plans there are so many of these prints I have no idea what they are or where they go Might be calling on you if that's ok. All the window pieces and keel and fore deadwood pieces it's all mixed up in the way they put them in order and some of which I'm not sure were or what it is. Understand I will do my due diligence and try looking as much up as I can find before asking for help. Again, I thank you   

[AnobiumPunctatum]

I am not sure, but the first deck you need is the lower deck (orlop). More important is the gundeck which is midships fully visible.

For the keel you can use the keel drawing. There are some detail drawings which should help to cut out the parts. Have a look to the different build logs in the forum. I think they are really helpful, to find your way in the project.

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Have a look in the log of Jorge. He describes especially the start of his project really detailed.

[James Flynn]

20 hours ago, AnobiumPunctatum said:

Have a look in the log of Jorge. He describes especially the start of his project really detailed.

I have been following Jorge's build with a magnifying glass looking over every pic. and yes, it is a great build log verry helpful and has answered many of my questions but still I have questions for example in this pic over on the far-right side is shown a side view of this bulkhead and at the top it shows two notches cut out my question is are those notches on the outside of the ship or the inside? And If I lay the bulkhead flat down on my table face up are the notch's face up or face down but if that were the case that would make beams run across the deck from one side to the other on both the gun deck and the top deck so that can't be right.     

 

What exactly is a gun port lintel Notch? And how is it used.

 

WOW I never realized just how much I didn't know about ship building. There is so much I need to learn and even though it's taking me forever to get cutting I'm having a great time with the challenge of it all. I can't white to see the progress of this thing coming together on my bench top.  

[James Flynn]

8 minutes ago, James Flynn said:

I have been following Jorge's build with a magnifying glass looking over every pic. and yes, it is a great build log verry helpful and has answered many of my questions but still I have questions for example in this pic over on the far-right side is shown a side view of this bulkhead and at the top it shows two notches cut out my question is are those notches on the outside of the ship or the inside? And If I lay the bulkhead flat down on my table face up are the notch's face up or face down but if that were the case that would make beams run across the deck from one side to the other on both the gun deck and the top deck so that can't be right.     

 

What exactly is a gun port lintel Notch? And how is it used.

 

WOW I never realized just how much I didn't know about ship building. There is so much I need to learn and even though it's taking me forever to get cutting I'm having a great time with the challenge of it all. I can't white to see the progress of this thing coming together on my bench top.  

To be clear I do understand the gun port is the door the gun shoot's through

[James Flynn]

On 11/25/2024 at 2:52 PM, AnobiumPunctatum said:

Have a look in the log of Jorge. He describes especially the start of his project really detailed.

Looking more carfuly I think I can see how it works it looks like the gun port lintal go between the ribs from inside the hull not from outside but some of the notches are on the opposite side in the plans that's why I'm confused well hopefully it will all come together during assembly 

[James Flynn]

Almost ready to start my assembly 

[AnobiumPunctatum]

It's looking really good. Let a little bit more meet on the outside of the frames. This makes it easier to fair the hull after installing all frames.

Edited December 1, 2024 by AnobiumPunctatum

[James Flynn]

17 hours ago, AnobiumPunctatum said:

It's looking really good. Let a little bit more meet on the outside of the frames. This makes it easier to fair the hull after installing all frames.

Thank you for your comments and yes, I can see exactly what you're talking about, now that I have all the frames cut and sanded and on the center board, I hope not to half to redo all that work. I'm hoping to fair just enough to give me meat enough to glue the planking on. Fingers crossed   

[James Flynn]

[James Flynn]

I made the front stem piece and the keel buy the POF plans but I couldn't get the fit without modifying them and after making them twice with the same results I decided I would build them off the POB plan and out of one solid piece also I wanted to build them out of oak with hopes of keeping the finish product looking true to form and I didn't really like the look of the birch anyway. 

Edited December 9, 2024 by James Flynn

[AnobiumPunctatum]

You should better use pear, cherry or boxwood for visible parts. Oak has a much to big grain for the small model.

[James Flynn]

15 hours ago, AnobiumPunctatum said:

You should better use pear, cherry or boxwood for visible parts. Oak has a much to big grain for the small model.

Just so I can understand your thinking how would the larger grain structure of the oak harm the finish product?  

[vossiewulf]

4 minutes ago, James Flynn said:

Just so I can understand your thinking how would the larger grain structure of the oak harm the finish product?  

The large grain of oak is not appropriate for small ships, using oak for small scales results in ships that look like toys. Wooden ship modeling wood has always been as fine-grained as possible while holding good detail and being reasonably workable. The traditional wood used on contemporary models was European boxwood, a very fine-grained wood. It's hard to get and therefore expensive, so most modelers have turned to other fine-grain woods like pear, Castillo boxwood, cherry, or yellow cedar.

[James Flynn]

10 minutes ago, vossiewulf said:

The large grain of oak is not appropriate for small ships, using oak for small scales results in ships that look like toys. Wooden ship modeling wood has always been as fine-grained as possible while holding good detail and being reasonably workable. The traditional wood used on contemporary models was European boxwood, a very fine-grained wood. It's hard to get and therefore expensive, so most modelers have turned to other fine-grain woods like pear, Castillo boxwood, cherry, or yellow cedar.

Good to know thank you for your comment curious out of the 5 you mentioned which would stain out with the best look? I'm only planning to paint the black stripe down the side I'm wanting the rest to take a stain look.   

[AnobiumPunctatum]

I think it depends on your personal taste. I have looked at all the woods mentioned. Since I paint my models, I finally decided on boxwood and holly. With natural wood models, the combination of pear and boxwood also works very well. It's best to get some samples and then decide what you like best.