Swan Class Masts and Spars versus Mermaid Class

[SaturnV]

Other than size, would the overall construction methods of the masts, platforms, crosstrees, and spars be the same for these two classes of ships? They are both considered 6th rate ships but differ in size and cannon quantities as well as other items.

 

Thanks ahead of time for any answers provided to this question.

 

Richard

[druxey]

Short answer: yes. The sizes of the sparring and rigging will be found in Steel's Rigging and Seamanship. Mermaid was a 32 gun frigate of the Daedalus/Active class and was considered a fifth rate, not sixth.

[SaturnV]

Mermaid class versus Mermaid the ship. I will be building the Triton with full masts but only have plans for a Swan class of ship. I am wondering if these Sawn class mast drawings would be accurate on my Triton. The TFFM books claim the information is good for all 6th rate ships. I will, of course, be using the dimenshions supplied by the MSW Triton build forum topic.

 

Richard

[druxey]

I'm still a little confused: there was the Mermaid class of 1760, 28 guns, lead vessel launched 1761, and the Mermaid class of 1748, 24 guns, lead vessel launched in 1749. For both classes the lead vessels were named Mermaid! Both were sixth rates. Which of these are you referring to?

[trippwj]

I'm still a little confused: there was the Mermaid class of 1760, 28 guns, lead vessel launched 1761, and the Mermaid class of 1748, 24 guns, lead vessel launched in 1749. For both classes the lead vessels were named Mermaid! Both were sixth rates. Which of these are you referring to?

Of course, there were frigates with the name Triton built in the 1769 Mermaid class (Triton launched in 1773), as well as a 24 gun sixth rate launched in 1745, and a later fifth rate launched in 1796. 

 

You may want to take a look at the thread here for some more details

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/1270-hms-triton-history-background-request/

 

As far as the mast construction, it may well vary quite a bit.  I am not familiar enough with the differences between the sloop (Swan class) and sixth rate (Mermaid class) but the length difference (about a 30 foot difference for the gundeck length, and almost 24 feet on keel), along with the beam (about a 6' 8" difference), the Mermaid class would have a larger rigging, which may result in the need for a made mast as opposed to a stick mast.

[SaturnV]

I guess I am refering to sixth rate vessels in general of the period for my MSW build of the Triton and how it compares to the Swan class books - The Fully Framed Model. I have all 4 books now and the 4th book has plans for the masts and spars. I also have the dimensions of all of the masts and spars as provided by MSW for the Triton model. So, using the dimensions given for the MSW Triton build and the layout of knees, platforms and cross trees as shown in the TFFM book series do I have the correct information to build masts for my Triton that would be historically accurate for the Triton of 1773?

I also have the Pandora and the Diana books to do a little cross referencing and to make educated guesses as to what I am going to be building but checking with the knowledgable folks here on the forum I was hoping to get my guesses substantiated.

In the end, if no one can confirm or deny my guesses then anything I do will be as accurate as I could possibly get as I have exhausted all of my known information sources.

 

Thanks to everyone who has responded. I really appreciate the input.

 

Richard

[druxey]

In 1773 the mizen yard was still commonly in use, rather than the gaff. Regardless, masting and sparring was proportional to the ship, based on the formula:

 

(Length on lower deck + extreme breadth)   = Length of main mast

                            2

 

from which all the other proportions will derive.

[SaturnV]

Wayne I think you are correct as one is a sloop and the other a frigate. I've been searching the internet for a couple of months to find some drawings that would be closer to my models type and year but have come up empty. I opened this topic out of desperation....

 

Thank you for the formula Druxey. I will keep that for future reference.

 

Richard

[michaelpsutton2]

One potential difference between the spars of Swan's and Mermaids might be wouldings on the lower masts. I am not really sure how big a vessel had to be in order for wouldings to be used.

[druxey]

Wooldings were pretty standard, Michael. However, the number of them changed over time.

[trippwj]

One other resource you may want to check is the thesis by Peter Flynn - H.M.S. Pallas: historical reconstruction of an 18th-century Royal Navy frigate (2006) at Texas A&M - https://repository.tamu.edu/handle/1969.1/3765

 

While the Pallas was of a slightly earlier class (1757 - Venus class, 36 gun 5th rate) than the Triton (1773 - Mermaid class, 28 gun 6th rate) , the dimensions are fairly close, and there is quite a bit of detail in his thesis, which may be a bit more relevant than the 16 gun Swan class data.

 

Dimensions listed for Pallas (1757) then for Triton (1773)

Length:           

(gundeck)  128 ft 4 in (39.12 m)           124 ft 1 in (37.82 m)

(keel)         106 ft 4 in (32.41 m)           103 ft 4.625 in (31.51188 m)

Beam:          35 ft 10.75 in (10.94 m)      33 ft 7 in (10.24 m)

Tonnage:    728 73/94 (bm)                  620 21/94 (bm) 

 

Hope this helps a little!

[SaturnV]

Wayne,

I actually have that document but did not read it yet. I had to register on the website to get it and now they keep spaming me with newsletters and stuff. Kind of funny. I guess I need to get more into that document to see whats in it. Thanks for the tip.

 

Richard