wq3296

Greetings Brett,

1. If wider sheet stock is not available, you could edge glue some strips together and cut the plank you need from it. Careful fitting and sanding should hide the glue joint.

2. The difficulties associated with edge bending in the construction of real ships were mitigated by spiling and carving required shapes from balks of solid wood - same methods modelers use. Spiling involves measuring and cutting a plank to a specific shape to fill in an odd shape between standard planks, keel, etc.

wq3296

Greetings Augie,

Thanks for the response. There are no absolutes in model building, so whatever works for you is all good. A forum like this allows folks to present different options to solving common problems. There is not necessarily a right way or a wrong way, so long as good result is achieved.

wq3296

Greetings Augie,

Note in my earlier response that I mentioned the fact that square stock bends easily. The reason is that in square stock there is virtually no edge bending to be done since the cross section is equal. Therefore the closer the stock gets to square the easier it is to bend - jig or no jig. Agreed? I noticed the stock you used started as 1/8"x 1/16" and you further tapered it bringing it even closer to square. I like the jig idea when doing multiple pieces that must be replicated. However, I would be interested to see how well it works on wider, shorter, stock.

wq3296

Greetings Ortho...

I generally agree with Allan and my apparent fellow Rhode Islander. It is not natural for wood strips to edge bend because the compression side bunches up and the tension side stretches and wants to pull apart. One solution is to cut small scores (or pie shapes) on the compression side so the compressed wood has a place to go. The scores should extend at least to the middle of the strip, through the neutral axis. If done carefully, this will work but the scores may show if the part is to be left unpainted. Another method I have used, particularly at the bow, is to laminate three or four square section strips of wood together since the square strips bend easily. I do this in place, one strip at a time until the the desired width is achieved.With sanding, the seems will all but disappear if the strips lay together tightly. You can use the same method almost anywhere. Keep in mind that the planking strips supplied with model kits can be out of scale so you could split them in half for an easier bend and still be correct scale wise, especially on a transom. However, it is easier to carve (spile) an oversize plank than to fight with edge bending. wq3296

Greetings Intar...

Yes I have seen that done. It seems to be a good idea because the blocks have good, sharp, corners and can stand up to clamping. I bet it works well. If the kids don't mind you can probably glue them in permanently so long as they don't conflict with anything else.

wq3296

Greetings Poppi,

I agree with Russ and S.Coleman. I think it is a waste of time and the results are by no means guaranteed. Plus, to Russ's point, the dowels could result in warping of the keel/former. Elsewhere on this forum, a guy built his keel and frames according to the plans that came with the model (Essex) , which called for dowels, and the keel warped. I use a simple build board with two wooden strips nailed to it to hold the keel for framing. Check the frames as you install them, making sure that they slide into the former with binding. Make sure they are square to the keel, level across the tops side to side, and spaced according to the drawings. Check your measurements multiple because she'll move on you even as the glue sets. Get your wales on, or a plank, as soon as the framing is done and you will be fine. I can't see spending hours installing supports between the frames - if you screw up you end up building in the problem you were trying to avoid.

wq3296

Greetings Gary,

Take a victory lap and an extra ration of grog for the plank job. For the bulwarks, go to the USS Constitution web site for answers to your questions on the color green. In general, dark and flat should be a starting point. I think the carriages were the same color. Connie is roughly from the same era as FA. Also, buff may be used for bulwarks/carriages.

I will try to get pictures up this weekend. My companionway and skylight are very similar to the pictures you have shown. However, the face of my companionway extends only about a foot or so forward of the cabin wall. Note that there is not much room between the cabin wall and the main mast, etc.

wq3296

Greetings Gary,

Nice job, really. What are you using for a finish? Based on the success of the first planking, you could come back with the walnut.

wq3296

Follow up to last post - references to down and up are in context to the hull being inverted.

wq3296

Greetings Gary,

I've been shoveling snow, so I haven't had a chance to get back. Nice progress and all looks well. Suggestion: The last two planks you installed have a short downward bend at their ends at the stern post. This probably wouldn't have been done in reality. If it is not too late, cut those planks loose at the bend, raise them up straight to where they want to be, and put a stealer in to fill the gap. This is a perfect application for a stealer: to avoid having to bend plank runs unnecessarily. Note that stealers are not supposed to be pointed at the small end. In reality, a pointed end could not have been fastened to anything, so the small end was squared off too. Of course, you will have to similarly notch the adjacent plank(s) to receive it. Keep up the good work.

Greetings Gary,

Really nice job. Your prep work has paid off. Looks good by anybody's standard, especially for a first timer.

wq3296

Greetings Wally,

As it turns out, I just finished the skylight - twice. The first attempt ended up being too big at 1 1/4"L, 5/8"W, 1/2"H. When I test fitted it, it seemed out of scale. The new version is 1"L, 1/2"W, 1/4"H. This size is right on in terms of scale and looks correct. I used a basswood block at 1" x 1/2" x 1/4". I then drew a line length wise along its center, and drew lines along each side 1/8" from the top edge. To form the sloped roof, sand from the center line down to the side lines. If you do this slowly and carefully, you can work the roof slopes in so that the gable ends are even on each end. Since I wanted natural wood finish, I clad the sides and gable ends with thin birch plywood. To form the light panels that fit on the roof slopes, I used thin strips of the birch to form a frame work for the four "glass" panels on each side. Before installing the frames on the slopes, I covered them with aluminum foil (dull side up) to simulate glass. It is easier to paint (or stain) the frames before installation to avoid messing up your "glass". I will be installing lengths of thin wire length wise over the panels which wood have been used to protect the glass. If you don't want to use the sloped roof, it would also be correct to have a flat roof. This is how did it, but I am sure there are many other methods and materials that may be used. I would suggest that you keep to the dimensions, since they seem to work. Note that in Gary's build log he has included pictures of another model that shows a skylight.

Relative to the companionway, start with a rectangular block of wood with finish dimensions as follows: 1 1/4"H, 5/8"W, 3/4"D. I started with a solid block and then veneered it with mahogany to arrive at the finished dimensions. With the block standing on end for clarity, draw a vertical line 3/4" high and 1/2" in from the aft end. By cutting along these lines, you will end up with a notch in the block that will fit over the forward end of the cabin roof and extend down to the main deck. The companionway as described is intended to be installed after the decks are planked, so you may have to tweak the dimensions slightly for a perfect fit. The all important door is about 1 1/16"H and 1/2"W. You could make the door out of thin material and glue to the forward end of the companion way. I rounded off the aft end of the top, but you could finish it off flat all the way across, too.

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Greetings Hans,

I built the Ajax by Euromodel and found the drawings and materials to be first rate, at least in my experience. The only problem with the Ajax kit was that Euromodel "created" history for it. There was an Ajax at Trafalgar, but it wasn't a frigate - it was a 74 gunner. I don't know why they would do this since there were all kinds of British frigates from that era. Beyond that, the kit materials and drawings were excellent. The drawings are detailed to the extreme, which allows for a very accurate model. However, while these details are very well drawn, the written instructions are minimal. I would say that if the Ajax is typical of Euromodel kits, and you don not have much experience, you should look elsewhere. I am familiar with Caldercraft, having watched their techs develop the Victory prototype on line. It seems that their kits use a lot of plywood which, in my opinion, is not as good as solid wood.

wq3296

Greetings Gary,

I understand and appreciate your method. However, from a practical point of view, you won't know if it was worth the effort until you start laying up the planks. No matter how you slice it and dice it, each and every plank will be different due to variables that you cannot foresee. You will need to "cut and try" each plank anyway, and if you take too much off as you mass produce the planks... I would feel more comfortable with your doing 2-3 planks at a time instead of 7-8, and then installing them to make sure all is well. Frankly, I do one plank at a time - measure, cut, measure again, try it, more fetteling, fit it.

With all that said, I am curious to see how it all comes out. If it works as slickly as you hope, my hat is off to you, and I will have learned something. I expect you will have good success based on your level of effort and attention to detail. It must have taken you some time to do the spread sheet and take all those measurements. Good work. wq3296

Greetings Wayne,

What you have there is plywood being plywood. Clamping, wetting, voodoo, etc. will not work unless you remove the stress in the tension side of the plywood. The usual methods can sometimes work with solid wood because the grain is consistent all the way through. However, plywood is made up of multiple layers - each with a different grain. What I am about to describe has worked for me: First, I would cut those tie rods loose between the affected frames. You don't have to take them out, just remove an 1/8" or so from the centers so the keel can move. Next, cut vertical scores into, or through if necessary, the outer plys of the keel on both sides of the bend. Then bend the keel as appropriate to remove the bend. While bending, you may actually crack the inner keel plys somewhat, but that is the only way you will remove the bend. When she's all nice and straight, glue some fish plates over the scores to restore stiffness. You may also need to loosen some of the frames in the area to make sure the keel can be bent enough to straighten it. You can use a hacksaw blade to do this work.

This will work - I can't see how you could possible fill the keel enough to eliminate the bend without screwing up the geometry of the hull in the affected area. wq3296

Greetings Gary,

Solid engineering approach to the problem. However, there are many variables that I think will conspire against you not having to use stealers or spiled planks. Note that stealers and spliling were (are) used to build wooden vessels and are quite typical so I wouldn't shy away from them. If done correctly, and in appropriate applications, they add interest to a good hull planking job. Some of these variables include: inconsistent plank width, inability to measure precisely when you are talking millimeters, planks will expand when soaked resulting in dimensional creep as you proceed with the planking, planks will change in size and not fit tightly as you bend them into place, and others. Since this ship hull has drag to it, as born out by your measurements, you will need to start tapering planks toward the bow almost immediately. Resist temptation to use only full width planks early on just because they seem to fit. You will find sooner or later that you won't have enough room to fit planks without having to severely taper some planks or cut them off resulting in pointed ends - this will look like hell. Taper each plank a little when the need becomes obvious and you can minimize stealers.

For what it's worth, I would start the planking at the main wale and continue all the way to the keel.  

wq3296

Greetings Gary,

You can't go wrong with the basswood - particularly as this will be your first time with POB. The walnut can be challenging as you found out. Your work looks very good. I am taking a different approach to construction, and will focus on the deck and aft cabin. As you have indicated, seven windows in the transom appear to be too much, and I doubt the original ship was built that way simply due to structural considerations. I will use five of the seven supplied with the kit. I will use the other two for the quarter deck cabin bulkhead, on either side of the companionway. They scale correctly and seem appropriate. Time for grog.

wq3296

Greetings Gary,

Yes, if you soak and heat the walnut, it is pliable enough for planking in tight areas. It also finishes better than the basswood (no fuzz). I like your approach of doing test runs before actually building. Note that you can use slivers of the walnut to fill in any gaps that may occur, or even wood filler. Another technique is to fill gaps with a mixture of wood glue and dust from sanding the walnut surrounding the area to be filled. I have seen this method used to fill small imperfections in gun stocks, too. The main concern is to MAKE SURE your frames are very well faired so that the planks will fit tightly to each other. Spend much time fairing and check often with a batten. If worse comes to worst, you can always paint the hull. By the way, you can use green or buff to paint the inboard bulwarks if you want a different, yet period correct, look. See recent posts under general discussion.

wq3296

Eggcellent,

Thanks Wayne. Your response makes perfect sense. I believe I will use the buff, with red cannon carriages.

I see you are from Maine. I am here in coastal RI. Snow has turned to rain. I guess it is headed your way. Good day to work from home.

Thanks for your timely and erudite response.

wq3296

Greetings,

Typically, I have used bulwark red on my naval ship models, American and British. However, for the project I now have underway (Fair American) I am thinking of using flat dark green or buff. The USS Constitution has green bulwarks. Are there other period correct colors that could be used? I have nothing against the red, and it is absolutely correct, but I doubt red was the only color used.

Thanks for any input you all may have on this subject.

wq3296

Greetings Ken,

I checked the plans and instructions and saw no direct reference to double planking. All of the details show single planking. However, I can see how you could draw this conclusion since there are 36 walnut planks and 36 1/16" basswood planks. You could single plank with the 1/32" walnut, but there will be little room for error in terms of hull shape. On the other, If you double plank with the walnut over the basswood, you end up with 4 1/2" scale hull thickness, which could be a little on the heavy side.

I think the holly will look fine below the wale, especially if you are trying to model the original. What plank thickness are you using? I am going with the walnut.

wq3296

Greetings Gary,

After looking at the walnut supplied with the kit, it appears to be quite good and should finish up nicely. I have rifles with oiled walnut stocks and they look spectacular. The walnut may be more difficult to deal with than basswood, so you should consider this as you make your decision. However, I think you should give it a go because you will be pleased with the results. If not, paint it. Don't get caught up with what others have done - from what I have read about MS's FA, they based this model on the original which, arguably, is pretty rough.

Greetings Gary,

As I see it you have two options: 1. buy more basswood; 2. use the walnut. I believe the intent of the drawings and instructions is that the walnut should be used for all exterior hull planking. It seems that the parts list uses some generic wording which could lead you to believe that the basswood is to be used for all exterior hull planking. The parts list shows a sufficient number of walnut strips to plank the entire hull. I will be using these to plank my hull. The wales and black strakes are basswood because these planks are usually painted. The walnut gives you the option to paint the hull, or not. I expect many builders will prefer a nicely finished natural walnut look to a painted hull. On the other hand, you could buy some extra basswood strips from MD or a local hobby store. I think the walnut is a big plus.

wq3296

Greetings Tim,

Seeing your Elco in progress brings back memories of when I built mine several years ago. I resisted making her another reproduction of PT 109. As you probably know, there is a wealth of information about PT boats on the 'net. One site listed all the PTs by number and how they ended up. I choose PT 164 which, of course, was an 80' Elco. She was sunk at Rendova by the Japanese Navy on Aug. 1, 1943 - approx. 11 months after her keel was laid.

I just finished the BlueJacket 1941 17' Chris Craft. I think BlueJacket makes outstanding kits. I've also built their Jefferson Davis revenue cutter and Charles P. Notman 4 masted schooner.

wq3296

Greetings Gary/Ken,

I have Howard I. Chapelle's book The History of American Sailing Ships, which shows multiple options for access to the officer's cabin under the quarter deck. Ken, good news for you. Since you already have the cabin bulkhead built, you could build a simple hatch, say 3'x3',to simulate an access hatch. I would locate the hatch on the deck centerline about a foot back from the bulkhead. There would have been an angled set of steps from the hatch to the deck below. I would show the hatch with a cover on it (to avoid having to detail steps) and put four stanchions around it with a rope on three sides to show what the hatch is for. This is period correct and apparently was quite common. You could modify your door to look like a window.

There is a drawing in the book of the Armed Schooner Berbice, 1780, built in the West Indies for the Royal Navy, thought to be American built. Chapelle's drawing shows a companion way centered on the quarter deck with a door approx. 4' high with a top sloping downward from the door toward the stern.

I hope this helps.

wq3296