trippwj

You are a tad aggressive there, sir. You have not explained anything to me but rather argued why your view is correct. I am attempting to point out alternative explanations based on published works and theories which you disparage. I am fully aware of the use of bows and splines, for example, yet the shipwright would still need to define that arc. Just one example.

One consistent challenge in utilizing modern methods to reimagine old drawings is the urge to ignore the technological capabilities of the time. A modern CAD program and basic calculator bring levels of precision and accuracy unattainable to the contemporary worker. Using Baker as an example, a large part of his manuscript us concerned with finding the best proportions to allow the scaling of the midship mould from one tunnage vessel to another. The math was teduous - logarithms were not available until after Wells had assumed responsibility for the manuscript around 1600ish. Interpreting this drawing as somehow flawed ignores the history of the item and the intended use. It is a scale representation, but not a construction drawing. It was most likely not intended to be 100% accurate but rather illustrative of the process. I think the important question is whether using the modern tools, one can create the shape by replicating the radii of the arcs as described by Baker, then if these arcs can be adjusted using the rising and narrowing lines to derive other frames fore and aft. Lastly, what where the proportions used in this specific drawing to establish the radii? As I recall, in some instances they were not mathematical but geometric points, unlike the 1620 MS where tge radii were a mathematical derivation of some dimension.

Mark - By any chance do you have the source information on this document? I am searching on the site but haven't come up with ths one just yet. Many Thanks!

In the contemporary records it is generally Mathew with one "t"

What is the rough scale of the drawing? Is it possible that as a representative as opposed to true "scale" drawing the line of the wale lost fidelity due to the need to extend a greater distance to draw the line than was available on the wirk surface? If the intended arc was 263" actual scale of the drawing that would be some 22 feet to draw it accurately...

Teach me to do a quick search on my phone!

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-79839

There have been several mentions of available research literature and potentially relevant treatises contemporary to the Renaissance in northwest Europe. With appologies to some, following is a fairly lengthy set of resources (note there may be some duplication between the two lists - they are tagged for topic areas, and some or most fit multiple subjects). Again, this is a sample. I have not included my Naval Architecture and Shipbuilding collection, though some of these are in either or both of those subject collections. List the First is primarily related to the low countries, although some other regions may have snuck in. Adams, J., Holk, A.F. van and Maarleveld, T.J. (1990) Dredgers and archaeology: shipfinds from the Slufter. Alphen aan den Rijn (Archeologie onder water : onderzoeksrapport, 2). Available at: https://www.academia.edu/919874/Dredgers_and_Archaeology._Shipfinds_from_the_Slufter (Accessed: 13 May 2015). Bender, J. (2014) Dutch Warships in the Age of Sail, 1600-1714: Design, Construction, Careers, and Fates. Barnsley, SYorkshire: Naval Institute Press. Bruijn, J.R. (2017) The Dutch Navy of the Seventeenth and Eighteenth Centuries. Oxford: Liverpool University Press (Research in Maritime History, 45). Available at: http://liverpooluniversitypress.co.uk/books/isbn/9781786948908. van Duivenvoorde, W. van (2012) ‘Chapter 34: Use of Pine Sheathing on Dutch East India Company Ships’, in N. Günsenin (ed.) Between Continents: Proceedings of the twelfth International Symposium on Boat and Ship Archaeology, Istanbul 2009, ISBSA 12, pp. 241–251. Available at: https://www.academia.edu/2276273/Chapter_34_Use_of_Pine_Sheathing_on_Dutch_East_India_Company_Ships_in_N._G%C3%BCnsenin_ed._Between_Continents_Proceedings_of_the_twelfth_International_Symposium_on_Boat_and_Ship_Archaeology_Istanbul_2009_ISBSA_12_pp._241_251 (Accessed: 19 March 2015). van Duivenvoorde, W. van (2015) Dutch East India Company Shipbuilding: The Archaeological Study of Batavia and Other Seventeenth-Century VOC Ships. College Station: Texas A&M University Press. van Duivenvoorde, W. van (2017) ‘(2009). More Than Just Bits of Hull: Expensive oak, laminate construction, and goat hair: new insights on "Batavia"'s archaeological hull remains. Tijdschrift voor Zeegeschiedenis 28.2:59–68 and 72–73.’, Tijdschrift voor Zeegeschiedenis 28.2:59–68 and 72–73. [Preprint]. Available at: https://www.academia.edu/2280418/_2009_._More_Than_Just_Bits_of_Hull_Expensive_oak_laminate_construction_and_goat_hair_new_insights_on_Batavia_s_archaeological_hull_remains._Tijdschrift_voor_Zeegeschiedenis_28.2_59_68_and_72_73 (Accessed: 4 January 2017). Gardiner, R. and Unger, R.W. (eds) (1994) Cogs, caravels, and galleons: the sailing ship, 1000-1650. Annapolis, MD: Naval Institute Press (Conway’s history of the ship). Guy, R. (2012) First Spaces Of Colonialism: The Architecture Of Dutch East India Company Ships. PhD Dissertation. Cornell. Available at: https://ecommons.cornell.edu/handle/1813/29468 (Accessed: 15 August 2021). Hocker, F. (2013) ‘Review - Nicolaes Witsen and Shipbuilding in the Dutch Golden Age’, The Mariner’s Mirror, 99(3), pp. 359–361. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1080/00253359.2013.792595. Holk, A.F.L. van (2021) ‘Innovation, institutions and migration: transfer of technology in Dutch shipbuilding, 500-1700’, Archaeonautica. L’archéologie maritime et navale de la préhistoire à l’époque contemporaine, (21), pp. 33–40. Available at: https://doi.org/10.4000/archaeonautica.754. Hoving, A.J. (2012) Nicolaes Witsen and shipbuilding in the Dutch Golden Age. 1st ed. College Station: Texas A&M University Press (Ed Rachal Foundation nautical archaeology series). Hoving, A.J. (2014) 17th century Dutch merchant ships: text, photos and plans for the ship modeler. Florence, OR: SeaWatch Books. Available at: http://www.seawatchbooks.com/114003. Jaeger, W. (2001) Die niederländische Jacht im 17. Jahrhundert: eine technisch-historische Dokumentation. Bielefeld: Verlag für Regionalgeschichte. Jong, J. de (2010) Standvastigheid & verwachting : a historical and philosophical inquiry into standardization and innovation in design and production of the VOC retourschip during the 18th century. info:eu-repo/semantics/masterThesis. University of Twente. Available at: http://essay.utwente.nl/66547/ (Accessed: 24 April 2015). Koot, G.M. (2016) the Dutch Republic and Britain: The Making of a European World Economy: Home. Available at: http://www1.umassd.edu/euro/welcome.cfm (Accessed: 3 November 2016). Maarleveld, T.J. (2013) ‘Early Modern Merchant Ships, Nicolaes Witsen and a Dutch-Flush Index’, International Journal of Nautical Archaeology, 42(2), pp. 348–357. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1111/1095-9270.12022. Maarleveld, T.J. (2017) ‘The Aanloop Molengat site (Wadden Sea, the Netherlands) and Europe anno 1635.The historical interpretation of a strategic cargo.’, in J. Gawronski, A. van Holk, and J. Schokkenbroek (eds) Ships And Maritime Landscapes. Proceedings of the Thirteenth International Symposium on Boat and Ship Archaeology, Amsterdam 2012. Barkhuis, pp. 113–119. Available at: https://www.academia.edu/34251783/The_Aanloop_Molengat_site_Wadden_Sea_the_Netherlands_and_Europe_anno_1635_The_historical_interpretation_of_a_strategic_cargo (Accessed: 2 August 2022). O’Grada, C. and Kelly, M. (2014) Speed Under Sail, 1750-1850. SSRN Scholarly Paper. Rochester, NY: Social Science Research Network. Available at: http://papers.ssrn.com/abstract=2412955 (Accessed: 15 February 2015). Preston, R.A. (1950) ‘To Outsail the Dutch’, The Mariner’s Mirror, 36(4), pp. 322–336. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1080/00253359.1950.10657617. Rålamb, Å.C. (1691) Skeps Byggerij eller Adelig Öfnings Tionde Tom Stockholm 1691. Sjöhistoriska museet. Available at: http://www.bruzelius.info/Nautica/Shipbuilding/Ralamb(1691).html. Page images available at https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?search=Skeps+Byggerij&title=Special:MediaSearch&go=Go&type=image Reehorst, K.P. ter (1850) The mariner’s and merchant’s polyglot technical dictionary of upwards of five thousand nautical, steam, and ship-building terms, commercial and scientific, in ten different languages, ... with a precise explanatory key to the pronunciation of these languages, and a comparative table of the money, weights and measures of sea ports. London : Williams and Northgate ... Available at: http://archive.org/details/gri_33125012932121 (Accessed: 11 April 2015). Reinders, R. (1991) Carvel construction technique: skeleton-first, shell-first: fifth International Symposium on Boat and Ship Archaeology, Amsterdam 1988. Edited by P. Kees. Oxford: Oxbow Books (Oxbow monograph, 12). Available at: //catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/002647582. Roscam, H. (1603) Dutch ships ram galleys (Halve Maene overvaart een galei op 3 oktober 1602. Ook wel gezien als een afbeelding van de Slag bij Sluis van 26 mei 1603). Available at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scheepsstrijd_op_de_Zeeuwse_stromen,_slag_bij_Sluis_26_mei_1603.jpg (Accessed: 7 October 2016). Sewel, W. (1699) A compendious guide to the Low-Dutch language : containing the most necessary and essential grammar-rules ... Korte wegwyzer der nederduytsche taal ... Printed for the widdow of S. Swart. Available at: http://brbl-dl.library.yale.edu/vufind/Record/3558608. May be useful in translating some of the older treatises. Stevin, S. (1586) De Beghinselen des Waterwichts. Inde druckerye van Christoffel Plantijn, by Françoys van Raphelinghen. Available at: https://books.google.com/books?id=r288AAAAcAAJ. Unger, R.W. (1973) ‘Dutch Ship Design in the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries’, Viator, 4, pp. 387–412. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1484/J.VIATOR.2.301656. Unger, R.W. (1978) Dutch shipbuilding before 1800: ships and guilds. Assen: Van Gorcum (Aspects of economic history.2). Available at: http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000736872 (Accessed: 13 March 2015). Unger, R.W. (2011) ‘Dutch nautical sciences in the golden age: the portuguese influence’, E-journal of Portuguese History, 9(2), pp. 68–83. Verweij, J., Waldus, W. and Holk, A.F.L.V. (2012) ‘Continuity and change in Dutch shipbuilding’, Journal of Archaeology in the Low Countries, 4(1), pp. 65–93. Witsen, N. (1671a) Aeloude en hedendaegsche scheeps-bouw en bestier. t’ Amsterdam : By Casparus Commelijn, Broer en Jan Appelaer, Boeck-verkoopers. Available at: http://archive.org/details/gri_33125008247716 (Accessed: 9 March 2015). Witsen, N. (1671b) Nicolaas Witsen, Aaloude en hedendaagsche scheeps-bouw en bestier · dbnl. Available at: http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/wits008arch01_01/ (Accessed: 9 March 2015). Witsen, N.C. (1690) Architectura navalis et reginem nauticum. [Amsterdam, Graphic]. Available at: http://archive.org/details/bub_gb_XfA3AQAAMAAJ (Accessed: 24 November 2016). Yk (Ijk), C. van (1697) De nederlandsche scheeps-bouw-konst open gestelt : vertoonende naar wat regel, of evenredenheyd, in Nederland meest alle scheepen werden gebouwd : mitsgaders masten, zeylen, ankers, en touwen, enz. daar aan gepast : soo suit de schriften van ouder, als jonger bouw-meesters, als ook by eygen ondervindinge, tot nut van alle jonge bouw-meesters en knechten, als ook uitreeders en liefhebbers van scheepen. Available at: https://archive.org/details/gri_33125012921124 (Accessed: 11 April 2015). List the Second is a broader survey of academic research related to the design of vessels or the reconstruction of wrecks. Adams, J. and Rönnby, J. (eds) (2013a) Interpreting shipwrecks: maritime archaeological approaches. Southampton: Highfield Press (Southampton Archaeology Monographs New Series, 4). Available at: https://www.academia.edu/31175211/Adams_J_and_R%C3%B6nnby_J_ed_Interpreting_Shipwrecks_Maritime_Archaeological_Approaches. Adams, J. and Rönnby, J. (2013b) ‘One of his Majesty’s “Beste Kraffwells”: the wreck of an early carvel-built ship at Franska Stenarna, Sweden’, International Journal of Nautical Archaeology, 42(1), pp. 103–117. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1095-9270.2012.00355.x. Adams, J.R. (2013) A Maritime Archaeology of Ships: Innovation and Social Change in Late Medieval and Early Modern Europe. 2nd Revised ed. edition. Oxford, UK ; Oakville, CT: Oxbow Books. Alexiou, K. (2011) Two 16th century ships: their hull form and performance. Master’s Thesis. Maritime Archaeology Programme. Maritime Archaeology Programme University of Southern Denmark. Available at: http://www.maritimearchaeology.dk/downloads/MA%20Thesis_Alexiou.pdf (Accessed: 2 April 2015). Anderson, R.C. (1934) ‘The Bursledon Ship’, The Mariner’s Mirror, 20(2), pp. 158–170. 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(eds) (2006) Connected by the sea: proceedings of the Tenth International Symposium on Boat and Ship Archaeology, Roskilde 2003. International Symposium on Boat and Ship Archaeology, Oxford: Oxbow. Available at: https://books.google.com/books?id=kLzNDQAAQBAJ. Bondioli, M. (2003a) ‘The Arsenal of Venice and the Art of Building Ships’, in C. Beltrame (ed.) Boats, Ships and Shipyards. Atti del IX International Symposium on Boat and Ship Archaeology. Oxford: Oxbow, pp. 10–13. Available at: https://www.academia.edu/37935615/BONDIOLI_Mauro_The_Arsenal_of_Venice_and_the_Art_of_Building_Ships (Accessed: 14 July 2019). Bondioli, M. (2003b) ‘The Art of Designing and Building Venetian Galleys from the 15th to the 16th Century’, in Boats, Ships and Shipyards. Atti del IX International Symposium on Boat and Ship Archaeology. Oxford: Oxbow, pp. 222–227. 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College Station: Texas A&M University Press (Ed Rachal Foundation nautical archaeology series), pp. 25-. Available at: https://www.academia.edu/20268228/Principles_and_Methods_of_Construction_in_Ancient_Naval_Architecture_full_version_replacing_and_cancelling_the_previous_one_. Riess, W. (1987) The Ronson ship: The study of an eighteenth-century merchantman excavated in Manhattan, New York in 1982. PhD Dissertation. University of New Hampshire. Available at: https://scholars.unh.edu/dissertation/1527. Rose, S. (2011) ‘Digs and Documents: Gaps in our knowledge of medieval shipping’, The Mariner’s Mirror, 97(1), pp. 63–76. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1080/00253359.2011.10709032. Steffy, J.R. (1975) ‘Nautical Archeology: Construction Techniques of Ancient Ships’, Naval Engineers Journal, 87(5), pp. 85–91. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1559-3584.1975.tb03773.x. Steffy, R. (1995) ‘Ancient Scantlings: The Projection and Control of Ancient Hull Shapes’, in H. Tzalas (ed.) Tropis III (Proceedings of the 3rd International Symposium on Ship Construction in Antiquity). Hellenic Institute for the Preservation of Nautical Tradition, pp. 417–428. Available at: https://www.academia.edu/12867722/1995._Ancient_Scantlings_The_Projection_and_Control_of_Ancient_Hull_Shapes._Tropis_III_Proceedings_of_the_3rd_International_Symposium_on_Ship_Construction_in_Antiquity_H._Tzalas_ed._Athens_417-428 (Accessed: 4 January 2017). Steffy, R. (2001) ‘The development of Ancient and Medieval Shipbuilding Techniques’, in Proceedings. International Symposium on Archaeology of Medieval and Modern Ships, pp. 49–62. Available at: http://www.patrimoniocultural.pt/media/uploads/trabalhosdearqueologia/18/. Unger, R.W. (1973) ‘Dutch Ship Design in the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries’, Viator, 4, pp. 387–412. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1484/J.VIATOR.2.301656. Unger, R.W. (2011) ‘Dutch nautical sciences in the golden age: the portuguese influence’, E-journal of Portuguese History, 9(2), pp. 68–83. Unger, R.W. (2018) ‘Shipbuilding, Knowledge, Technology And Heritage Portuguese Shipbuilding & Low Countries : Practices. Iberian Influences In The Dutch Golden Age’, in A. Polónia and F.C. Domingues (eds) Shipbuilding. Knowledge and Heritage. CITCEM, pp. 159–176. Available at: https://ler.letras.up.pt/site/default.aspx?qry=id024id1648&sum=sim (Accessed: 26 October 2022). Verweij, J., Waldus, W. and Holk, A.F.L.V. (2012) ‘Continuity and change in Dutch shipbuilding’, Journal of Archaeology in the Low Countries, 4(1), pp. 65–93. Zwick, D. (2014) ‘Conceptual Evolution in Ancient Shipbuilding: An Attempt to Reinvigorate a Shunned Theoretical Framework’, in J. Adams and J. Rönnby (eds) Interpreting Shipwrecks — Maritime Archaeological Approaches, pp. 46–71. Available at: https://www.academia.edu/6640960/Conceptual_Evolution_in_Ancient_Shipbuilding_An_Attempt_to_Reinvigorate_a_Shunned_Theoretical_Framework (Accessed: 8 March 2015).

While this specific set of questions is worthy of discussion, your diatribe attacking Ab Hoving is lacking substance. His credentials are strong, with many published academic works in addition to his books. 29 years restoring museum models would involve broad familiarity with archival material. While you may disagree with his conclusions, that does not make them wrong. Could you build a boat based on Witsen? Yes, with some assumptions regarding missing or strange information. Does his treatise meet modern standards? Heck no - he could use a good editor!

One must understand the era during which these treatises were prepared before passing judgement on the source. Witsen was documenting in a written form what was primarily institutional knowledge among the shipwrights of the time. Not so different from the Newton manuscript or, for that matter, the many 18th century works such as Steel or the various encyclopedia entries. Citing of references is a much more modern concept. Is Michael of Rhodes any less credible for not citing the more ancient sources?

The Livro Primeiro de Arquitectura Naval (First Book of Naval Architecture) has been dated between 1608 and 1615, and is generally considered to have been written around 1600 by João Baptista Lavanha, the Chief Engineer and Chief Cosmographer of the kingdom of Portugal at that time. It is the theoretical work of a scholar, and not a practical text of a shipwright. It deals only with one type of vessel: the four decked nau for the India Route. It is clearly more modern than Oliveira’s Liuro da Fabrica das Naus, basing the construction of hulls on paper drawings. Nevertheless, Lavanha calls for the need to pre-design a central portion of the hull, although only for five frames forward and abaft the midship section. The importance of this treatise lies in its accurate description of construction techniques, and in its detailed illustrations. It is incomplete, ending abruptly in the beginning of a description of the drawing of plans. Both Lavanha's and Oliveira's works are availble from the Academia de Marinha, the cultural agency of the Portuguese Navy under the Chief of Naval Staff. Its purpose is to promote and to publish artistic, literary, historical, and scientific studies relating to the sea and maritime activities. For those that are able to read Portuguese, there are a number of other items also posted. I thought these two early manuscripts may be of interest. While Lavanha has been translated, Oliveira has not. Some sections of Oliveira have been transcribed while others are facsimile of the original handwritten treatise. Lavanha, J.B. (1610) ‘Livro Primeiro da Architectura Naval (First Book of Naval Architecture)’. Translated by R. A. Barker. Available at: https://academia.marinha.pt/pt/edicoes/Paginas/Reedições.aspx (Published by the Academia de Marinha, Lisbon, 1996, as a facsimile, transcript and translation; and including the 1965 commentary by Dr João da Gama Pimentel Barata, revised and updated from his notes on a draft translation in 1986; together with further annotation by the translator). (Accessed: 2 November 2022). Oliveira, F. (1580) ‘Livro da Fabrica das Naus’. Available at: https://academia.marinha.pt/pt/edicoes/Paginas/Reedições.aspx (Published by the Academia de Marinha, Lisbon, 1991, as a facsimile, partial transcript). (Accessed: 2 November 2022). Original images available at https://purl.pt/6744 where a 719MB PDF may also be downloaded. Barkers on-line translation of Lavanha (same as in the book) can be found on his website here (he has several very nice items there, including what appears to be a partial translation of Oliveira here....)

I heartily recommend the book "Those Vulgar Tubes" for a tour of the various designs. Did they always use them? Probably not always, but who knows?

The two pieces may or may not be related. The Mary Rose (1509) exhibits some unique components of the frames that seem to not represent the Mediterranean skeleton- first construction. Barker has some interesting, and well documented, analysis concerning design methods, as do Steffy and Unger which acknowledge the similarity between northern shipbuilding and Mediterranean, but also note the important differences. Being able to utilize mathematical and graphic methods to fit curves onto sections derived through other design systems is interesting, but coincidence does not equate to causality. I think there are some intriquing aspects to what you are doing, however discounting the work of previous researchers, some with hands-on experience with vessels such as the Mary Rose, presents challenges. The question becomes one of cart and horse, whether the design methods known to be in use at the time period in question or the building systems were the determinant of shape, since drawings were not known to be used.

The detail on the midship mould addressing folio 35 that are more complete. I would love to see either a complete transcription or digital version of the full manuscript. Adams notes that after the early highly decorated folios the remainder reads more like a guide for an apprentice - more technical and mathematical. The later sections (probably added by Wells) incorporate logarithms, dating those parts as post 1610 or so.

Sources in my post.

Affirmative. The difference between the early folios in Fragments and the later folios is dramatic. Early folios (including the folio 19 image) are elaborate and watercolored. The later folios are much more technical. See Adams (2013) page 145 as a quick summary, references Barker (1986). Barker has perhaps the most in depth information available on the manuscript that has been published. I have a copy of the full Barker "Fragments" including the footnotes and drawings, but unfortunately neglected to note where I found it! As I recall, I had to take snapshots of each page and paste into a Word document in order to obtain a digital version. In Appendix 2, Adams provides both the transcription from Folio 35 (the midship mould) as well as a somewhat easier to understand modern elaboration. If you are working from Folio 19 (the three moulds superimposed on the sheer draught) the narrative there is greatly simplified. Adams, J. R. 2013. A Maritime Archaeology of Ships: Innovation and Social Change in Late Medieval and Early Modern Europe. 2nd Revised ed. edition. Oxford, UK ; Oakville, CT: Oxbow Books. Barker, Richard. 1986. “Fragments From The Pepysian Library.” Revista Da Universidade de Coimbra XXXII: 161–78. http://home.clara.net/rabarker/Fragments83txt.htm Also see: McGowan, Alan Patrick. 1981. Tiller and Whipstaff: The Development of the Sailing Ship, 1400-1700. H.M. Stationery Office. The figure below is excerpted from Barker.

No random guesswork concerning the methods. The details are in the text. The elaborate draught is thought to illustrate for the Queen the general design concept rather than define the process. This wasn't a builders draught as such but in some ways analogous to the "Admiralty model" of s slightly later period.

In Adams' (2013) book he provides a detailed analysis, including reconstructing the lines from Baker, Wells, and Deane for the midship mould. These moulds all have a common characteristic of no deadrise for the flat of the floor (midship mould) - only once the floor sweep is drawn is there any rise. This is most apparent in folio 35 of Baker's Fragments. Also of note is the caveat (often overlooked) that the construction method was not frame built, but rather whole moulding or some variant there of, where the keel and posts were erected, then a few frames installed. The shape was found by ribbands and then initial strakes installed. (Well, paraphrasing greatly that's the process). The importance is that the shipwright did not care too much about the other frames - they were just adjustments to the midship mould based on rising and narrowing lines and measurements of the build in progress! Back to Adams for a moment, he used the proportions and ratios &c. from Fragments to recreate the hull of the wreck Sea Venture as a 3d model. Preliminary results indicate a very stable vessel. His book is well worth the read as one of the most recent syntheses of the topic.

Here is an interesting figure from Olaberria, Juan Pablo. 2018. “Ship Design-Knowledge in Early Modern Europe: Royal Yachts and the Shared Knowledge of Ship-Designers and Common Shipwrights.” Doctor of Philosophy, University of Southampton. https://www.academia.edu/36363637/Ship_design-knowledge_in_early_modern_Europe_Royal_yachts_and_the_shared_knowledge_of_ship-designers_and_common_shipwrights One of Barker's analyses can be found here - also extensive discussion of Sutherland. Barker, Richard. 2001. “Whole-Moulding: A Preliminary Study of Early English and Other Sources.” In Shipbuilding Practice and Ship Design Methods from the Renaissance to the 18th Century: A Workshop Report, edited by H Nowacki and Matteo Valleriani, Preprint 245, 33–65. [Berlin]: Max-Planck-Institut für Wissenschaftsgeschichte. https://www.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/Preprints/P245.PDF. Also see Barker, Richard. 1988. “‘Many May Peruse Us’: Ribbands, Moulds and Models in the Dockyards.” Revista Da Universidade de Coimbra XXXIV: 539–59. Sergio Bellabarba offers an interesting theory concerning early ship design. Bellabarba, Sergio. 1996. “The Origins of the Ancient Methods of Designing Hulls: A Hypothesis.” The Mariner’s Mirror 82 (3): 259–68. https://doi.org/10.1080/00253359.1996.10656602. There are also works by Steffy, Hock, Reith, and Castro that you may find useful.

See Barker, Olabierra, Bellarba, Ferriero...

Take a look at some of the works by Richard Barker for some detailed analysis of Baker. Also see the PhD thesis by Olabierra (spp?) for at least one geometric analysis of Baker.

Yeah, I feel kind of silly now - I see it listed in the References of your MM article. oops!

Druxey - I confess up front to not have the breadth of familiarity that you do concerning the designing of hulls. I noted your comment about Pett and, as I sometimes do, I wandered down a rabbett hole (see what I did there??Rabbett???) and came across a small piece, originally dated 1662, entitled Cono-Cuneus, or, The Shipwright’s Circular Wedge in a letter to the honourable Sir Robert Moray. Since included in Wallis' 1685 A treatise of algebra, both historical and practical The transcribed text of Cono-cuneus may be found here (without figures) Wallis, John. Letter. 1662. “Cono-Cuneus, or, The Shipwright’s Circular Wedge That Is, a Body Resembling in Part a Conus, in Part a Cuneus, Geometrically Considered,” April 7, 1662. http://name.umdl.umich.edu/A67375.0001.001. European Cultural Heritage Online (ECHO) has an on-line version of Treatise of Algebra, including cono-cuneus (with figures) which can be found here (cono-cuneus begins on page 402): Wallis, John. 1685. A Treatise of Algebra, Both Historical and Practical : Shewing the Original, Progress, and Advancement Thereof, from Time to Time, and by What Steps It Hath Attained to the Heighth at Which Now It Is ; with Some Additional Treatises. https://echo.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/ECHOdocuView?url=/permanent/library/H3GRV5AU/pageimg&start=421&viewMode=index&pn=430&mode=imagepath. If you desire PDF (I know I do - makes the search and selective printing much easier) then that can be found here (note cono-cuneus starts on page 414, with the figures preceding the text. . Wallis, John. 1685. A Proposal about Printing a Treatise of Algebra, Historical and Practical: Written by Dr. John Wallis. Richard Davis. https://books.google.com/books?id=TXpmAAAAcAAJ. I am not sure if there is direct applicability to the lower form of the hull, but his figures would seem to indicate tha is true.

Here is the link to the Brown University manuscript: https://bruknow.library.brown.edu/permalink/01BU_INST/9mvq88/alma991016540869706966

This has been a most interesting discussion. I do not have the skills to try and replicate the drawings digitally, but have an interest in how these hull forms evolved. Let me offer another couple of references which may (or may not) be of interest to the conversation. Let me introduce David Balfour. According to Bellamy, " One of Christian IV’s principal shipwrights was David Balfour (1574–1634). He was born in St Andrews, Scotland, and we know that he travelled abroad to study mathematics. The first reference to him in Denmark occurs in 1597 when he was awarded contracts to build two galleys. They must have been well received as in 1599 he got his first contract to build a large warship." Why Balfour? Well, there are some archival records of his design process, as well as extant drawings/plans. Below are a couple of images from Bellamy (2006) Source: Bellamy, Martin. 2006. “David Balfour and Early Modern Danish Ship Design.” The Mariner’s Mirror 92 (1): 5–22. https://doi.org/10.1080/00253359.2006.10656978. So we see some use of the design drawing contemporary to the "Newton" manuscript. Of interest for the 17th Century as well may be the 1620-ish Treatise on Shipbuilding as transcribed and annotated by Salisbury in 1958. While this treatise moves us a bit later than the Balfour works, we are still quite a bit behind the era of Sutherland. Here, then, are three more which are available for review. Obviously Deane's Doctrine is the more famous, with a very nice book published by Brian Lavery. THe other two, however, have not been transcribed but may contain some interesting tid bits. Salisbury, William, and R. C Anderson, eds. 1958. A Treatise on Shipbuilding: And a Treatise on Rigging, Written about 1620-1625. Occasional Publication, No. 6. London: Society for Nautical Research. While this treatise moves us a bit later than the Balfour works, we are still quite a bit behind the era of Sutherland. Here, then, are three more which are available for review. Obviously Deane's Doctrine is the more famous, with a very nice book published by Brian Lavery. THe other two, however, have not been transcribed but may contain some interesting tid bits. Battine, Edward. 1685. The Method of Building, Rigging, Apparelling, & Furnishing His Majesties Ships of Warr, According to Their Rates. https://collections.library.yale.edu/catalog/17268860. Bushnell, Edmund. 1678. The Complete Ship-Wright. Plainly ... Teaching the Proportion Used by Experienced Ship-Wrights ... To Which Are Added, Certain Propositions in Geometry ... Also, a Way of Rowing of Ships by Heaving at the Capstane ... The Fourth Edition, Etc. 4th ed. R. W. for William Fisher. https://books.google.com/books?id=kWpnAAAAcAAJ. Deane, Sir Anthony. 1670. “Anthony Deane’s Doctrine of Naval Architecture and Tables of Inventions Etc. - National Maritime Museum.” 1670. http://collections.rmg.co.uk/archive/objects/471544.html. One other set of papers I have not had the opportunity to delve into are those by Thomas Harriott (Manuscript on Shipbuilding and Rigging ca. 1608-1610) Pepper, Jon V. 1981. “Harriot’s Manuscript on Shipbuilding and Rigging (ca. 1608‐1610).” In Five Hundred Years of Nautical Science 1400-1900, edited by Derek Howse, 204–16. National Maritime Museum. https://www.academia.edu/11773314/_III_PEPPER_Jon_V._Harriots_manuscript_on_shipbuilding_and_rigging_ca._1608_1610_. Pepper provides this recreation of lines from Harriot. Website for the collections is “The Manuscripts of Thomas Harriot (1560–1621).” 2012. Digital Edition of Thomas Harriot’s Manuscripts. 2012. http://echo.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/content/scientific_revolution/harriot. Also see: Stedall, Jacqueline. 2013. “Notes Made by Thomas Harriot (1560–1621) on Ships and Shipbuilding.” The Mariner’s Mirror 99 (3): 325–27. https://doi.org/10.1080/00253359.2013.815995. At any rate, one final modern study that may be of interest would be the following: Kenchington, Trevor John. 1993. “The Structures of English Wooden Ships: William Sutherland’s Ship, circa 1710.” The Northern Mariner 3 (1): 1–43. Enjoy! Hope some of this is useful in your efforts.