mojofilter

As I mentioned before, I found a truly great reference to the Schooner Yacht America.  It is THE LOW BLACK SCHOONER YACHT AMERICA  1851-1945 by John Rousmaniere.
I would highly recommend this book to anyone building America as it has some detailed history, descriptions, paintings and even some photographs from her later years.
While you should buy the book yourself, I will point out some things I've learned here for the potential benefit of some folks who are in the middle of their America build.
While the Mamoli kit indicates three shroud lines to the mainmast (actually two to the step of the topmast and one to the top end of the topmast), none of the paintings of photographs show this.  Only two shrouds to the topmast step - nothing above that.  Nevertheless, I like the look of the topmast shroud so it stays. It is said that as designed, she had a gaff topsail over her mainsail but it was never built.  She only carried three sails; a boomed mainsail, a boomless foresail, and a single boomless jib.  The Mamoli kit has the gaff topsail rigging, and jib boom and its sail used at the beginning of the Isle of Wight race, which was "carried away" during the race.  In a refit in 1875 she was fitted with a top foremast and flew two gaff topsails. Her masts were designed to have "extreme rake".  2 3/4" per foot.  That's ~12.9 degrees. I don't know if that is off the keel or the waterline. I have seen drawings & paintings with more and less than that.  Evidently in 1885 she was stepped with masts forward of plumb(?!?) - The rope headstay was 10" in diameter!  That would scale to 3.85mm.  Evidently wire rope was not yet used (in 1851). Her large cockpit was 30' in circumference which is ~6.18' in diameter.  She was originally fitted with a long tiller but early photographs show her with a wheel. Her deck was 3" white oak (not teak like I always thought). Bulwarks were 13" high at the afterdeck step, and 20" high for the forward deck. The book is crammed with race history and Civil War history.  Pretty cheap too.

So I cut off the bowsprit rigging but have not gotten around to re-rigging with the Syren 1/8" blocks and line.  I would also like to replace all the Mamoli-supplied blocks with Syren blocks but this will be difficult.  The deck and handrail mounted blocks were wrapped and seized to the brass eyelets and then glued into little holes with CA glue. Re-wrapping the Syren blocks to the glued down pins will be a challenge.  I will get to it but summer seems to be getting in the way.  The other big distraction from this critical ship building job is the new wood shop in the back yard   12' x 24' with 10' ceilings.  Been waiting a long time for this.  One of the very first projects will be a walnut and glass case for America, that will sit on a dedicated display stand.  I saw somewhere on this site where a gentleman had made drawers in his stand where he placed the kit drawings and reference books for his model.
Speaking of reference books . . .

Also, looking at the blocks on the cap rails (I think they're for running rigging), they look crappy too.  These are from the Mamoli kit - before I discovered Syren's beautiful blocks.  They come off too.
Gonna have to stop this at some point or she'll be stripped to her scuppers
 
- Tim

So I attempted the lower bowsprit rigging - don't like it.
I used the plan's sizes for the blocks and line; 4mm blocks and .4mm stay lines and .25mm for the draw (?) lines.  Too big.  Scale size for the blocks would be about 10.4" long.  Plus the line seizing is ratty.
 

 
Now, there was a time, before I started seeing all of the fine work you folks do, that this would have been good enough.
The bar has been set higher.  Dang you guys!
I will tear it all off and redo using Syren's 1/8" blocks, and .3mm stay lines, and .2mm working lines.

For the coils, the rope was just soaked in 50/50 Elmer's and water.  Tried to get it as dry as possible with paper towels, then coiled on the pin.  Put plastic wrap on the deck underneath.  I've seen much better on this site.  Also they are unrealistically short - it would not cover the vertical rise of the gaff if brought down. 
The supplied rope is 24mm, 40mm, & 80mm, or so Mamoli says (no practical way to tell).  I got Syren rope but no direct size match.  I went with the next size up but really, it doesn't look like that much of a difference.  Probably because the Syren rope is much 'tighter' - less fuzz.  

So it's been a little slow going on the standing rigging but some progress.
 
This is where she lives when not being worked on.  It is so dusty next to the mesa - that and the dog hair . . .

 
The gaff rigging:

 

 

 

 
My attempt at rope on a belaying pin

 
So no more procrastinating - on to the bowsprit.
 
Incidentally, I ordered an excellent book on America called the Low Black Schooner: Yacht America 1851 1945 by John Rousmaniere. (ISBN 0-939510-04-9).
Lots of history, really good drawings, paintings, and even some early photographs.
No wonder so many different model interpretations - she went through many changes between the Isle of Wight and the civil war.
 
I am still up in the air about sails.  At the very least I will add some of the running rigging.
Getting close now. 

As I mentioned before, I found a truly great reference to the Schooner Yacht America.  It is THE LOW BLACK SCHOONER YACHT AMERICA  1851-1945 by John Rousmaniere.
I would highly recommend this book to anyone building America as it has some detailed history, descriptions, paintings and even some photographs from her later years.
While you should buy the book yourself, I will point out some things I've learned here for the potential benefit of some folks who are in the middle of their America build.
While the Mamoli kit indicates three shroud lines to the mainmast (actually two to the step of the topmast and one to the top end of the topmast), none of the paintings of photographs show this.  Only two shrouds to the topmast step - nothing above that.  Nevertheless, I like the look of the topmast shroud so it stays. It is said that as designed, she had a gaff topsail over her mainsail but it was never built.  She only carried three sails; a boomed mainsail, a boomless foresail, and a single boomless jib.  The Mamoli kit has the gaff topsail rigging, and jib boom and its sail used at the beginning of the Isle of Wight race, which was "carried away" during the race.  In a refit in 1875 she was fitted with a top foremast and flew two gaff topsails. Her masts were designed to have "extreme rake".  2 3/4" per foot.  That's ~12.9 degrees. I don't know if that is off the keel or the waterline. I have seen drawings & paintings with more and less than that.  Evidently in 1885 she was stepped with masts forward of plumb(?!?) - The rope headstay was 10" in diameter!  That would scale to 3.85mm.  Evidently wire rope was not yet used (in 1851). Her large cockpit was 30' in circumference which is ~6.18' in diameter.  She was originally fitted with a long tiller but early photographs show her with a wheel. Her deck was 3" white oak (not teak like I always thought). Bulwarks were 13" high at the afterdeck step, and 20" high for the forward deck. The book is crammed with race history and Civil War history.  Pretty cheap too.

As I mentioned before, I found a truly great reference to the Schooner Yacht America.  It is THE LOW BLACK SCHOONER YACHT AMERICA  1851-1945 by John Rousmaniere.
I would highly recommend this book to anyone building America as it has some detailed history, descriptions, paintings and even some photographs from her later years.
While you should buy the book yourself, I will point out some things I've learned here for the potential benefit of some folks who are in the middle of their America build.
While the Mamoli kit indicates three shroud lines to the mainmast (actually two to the step of the topmast and one to the top end of the topmast), none of the paintings of photographs show this.  Only two shrouds to the topmast step - nothing above that.  Nevertheless, I like the look of the topmast shroud so it stays. It is said that as designed, she had a gaff topsail over her mainsail but it was never built.  She only carried three sails; a boomed mainsail, a boomless foresail, and a single boomless jib.  The Mamoli kit has the gaff topsail rigging, and jib boom and its sail used at the beginning of the Isle of Wight race, which was "carried away" during the race.  In a refit in 1875 she was fitted with a top foremast and flew two gaff topsails. Her masts were designed to have "extreme rake".  2 3/4" per foot.  That's ~12.9 degrees. I don't know if that is off the keel or the waterline. I have seen drawings & paintings with more and less than that.  Evidently in 1885 she was stepped with masts forward of plumb(?!?) - The rope headstay was 10" in diameter!  That would scale to 3.85mm.  Evidently wire rope was not yet used (in 1851). Her large cockpit was 30' in circumference which is ~6.18' in diameter.  She was originally fitted with a long tiller but early photographs show her with a wheel. Her deck was 3" white oak (not teak like I always thought). Bulwarks were 13" high at the afterdeck step, and 20" high for the forward deck. The book is crammed with race history and Civil War history.  Pretty cheap too.

Peter - just re-read your last post, and remembering that the stern was quite ambiguous in the plans.  I too have seen many variations on the look of the stern.  Everything from a very flat slab, to a jutting break line below the hand rail around the stern.  (sorry for my lack of nautical terminology).  In many cases, it looks like to see the eagle carving on the stern, you would have to be directly under it - well almost.
Anyway, looking forward to seeing your interpretation!
Keep up the good work!
 
- Tim

Hi Peter -
 
Very nice job!  Curious about the walnut stem/stern?  IMHO, the more care you take with the Mamoli bulkheads, the easier the planking will be.  Looking forward to your progress.
 
- Tim

Very nice start Peter.  Both Hamilton and I are currently building the Mamoli kit.  Hamilton has done an outstanding job on his hull - You might want to take a look.
I think the little wooden 'copper' plates supplied with the kit are an interesting concept, and I've seen it done well, but I think the real copper plates are very much nicer.
I look forward to following your log.
 
- Tim

So I attempted the lower bowsprit rigging - don't like it.
I used the plan's sizes for the blocks and line; 4mm blocks and .4mm stay lines and .25mm for the draw (?) lines.  Too big.  Scale size for the blocks would be about 10.4" long.  Plus the line seizing is ratty.
 

 
Now, there was a time, before I started seeing all of the fine work you folks do, that this would have been good enough.
The bar has been set higher.  Dang you guys!
I will tear it all off and redo using Syren's 1/8" blocks, and .3mm stay lines, and .2mm working lines.

So it's been a little slow going on the standing rigging but some progress.
 
This is where she lives when not being worked on.  It is so dusty next to the mesa - that and the dog hair . . .

 
The gaff rigging:

 

 

 

 
My attempt at rope on a belaying pin

 
So no more procrastinating - on to the bowsprit.
 
Incidentally, I ordered an excellent book on America called the Low Black Schooner: Yacht America 1851 1945 by John Rousmaniere. (ISBN 0-939510-04-9).
Lots of history, really good drawings, paintings, and even some early photographs.
No wonder so many different model interpretations - she went through many changes between the Isle of Wight and the civil war.
 
I am still up in the air about sails.  At the very least I will add some of the running rigging.
Getting close now. 

Very nice!!
Golf?  "A nice walk, wasted"
Can't wait to see the copper go on.

Also, looking at the blocks on the cap rails (I think they're for running rigging), they look crappy too.  These are from the Mamoli kit - before I discovered Syren's beautiful blocks.  They come off too.
Gonna have to stop this at some point or she'll be stripped to her scuppers
 
- Tim

So I attempted the lower bowsprit rigging - don't like it.
I used the plan's sizes for the blocks and line; 4mm blocks and .4mm stay lines and .25mm for the draw (?) lines.  Too big.  Scale size for the blocks would be about 10.4" long.  Plus the line seizing is ratty.
 

 
Now, there was a time, before I started seeing all of the fine work you folks do, that this would have been good enough.
The bar has been set higher.  Dang you guys!
I will tear it all off and redo using Syren's 1/8" blocks, and .3mm stay lines, and .2mm working lines.

For the coils, the rope was just soaked in 50/50 Elmer's and water.  Tried to get it as dry as possible with paper towels, then coiled on the pin.  Put plastic wrap on the deck underneath.  I've seen much better on this site.  Also they are unrealistically short - it would not cover the vertical rise of the gaff if brought down. 
The supplied rope is 24mm, 40mm, & 80mm, or so Mamoli says (no practical way to tell).  I got Syren rope but no direct size match.  I went with the next size up but really, it doesn't look like that much of a difference.  Probably because the Syren rope is much 'tighter' - less fuzz.  

So it's been a little slow going on the standing rigging but some progress.
 
This is where she lives when not being worked on.  It is so dusty next to the mesa - that and the dog hair . . .

 
The gaff rigging:

 

 

 

 
My attempt at rope on a belaying pin

 
So no more procrastinating - on to the bowsprit.
 
Incidentally, I ordered an excellent book on America called the Low Black Schooner: Yacht America 1851 1945 by John Rousmaniere. (ISBN 0-939510-04-9).
Lots of history, really good drawings, paintings, and even some early photographs.
No wonder so many different model interpretations - she went through many changes between the Isle of Wight and the civil war.
 
I am still up in the air about sails.  At the very least I will add some of the running rigging.
Getting close now. 

Hi Hamilton -
I haven't posted here in a while but I was looking at rfolsom's Cutty Sark build and he was attaching the chain plates for the lower dead-eyes.
Now that your cap rails are on, you will probably be doing chain plates soon.  I am reminded that the Mamoli plans said nothing about slanting the chain plates (in the text anyway), which sit quite a bit aft of the mast centers, forward toward the mast step (in the case of the mainmast).  I put mine in nearly straight up and down, and ended up bending the upper portion of the chain plates forward (broke two of them in the process ).  The drawing shows them slanting forward but through haste and inexperience I missed it.
Anyway, the moral of this story is that the chain plates are very brittle - you'll have to be forming them around the little bump out (insert nautical term here) - very dicey.
 
You (and several others) have convinced me that when I do the copper plating on my next build, I will leave the copper raw and let it patina on its own.
It looks very nice now, and the natural aging process will be much better.
Can't wait to see what's next!
 
- Tim

So I attempted the lower bowsprit rigging - don't like it.
I used the plan's sizes for the blocks and line; 4mm blocks and .4mm stay lines and .25mm for the draw (?) lines.  Too big.  Scale size for the blocks would be about 10.4" long.  Plus the line seizing is ratty.
 

 
Now, there was a time, before I started seeing all of the fine work you folks do, that this would have been good enough.
The bar has been set higher.  Dang you guys!
I will tear it all off and redo using Syren's 1/8" blocks, and .3mm stay lines, and .2mm working lines.

So I attempted the lower bowsprit rigging - don't like it.
I used the plan's sizes for the blocks and line; 4mm blocks and .4mm stay lines and .25mm for the draw (?) lines.  Too big.  Scale size for the blocks would be about 10.4" long.  Plus the line seizing is ratty.
 

 
Now, there was a time, before I started seeing all of the fine work you folks do, that this would have been good enough.
The bar has been set higher.  Dang you guys!
I will tear it all off and redo using Syren's 1/8" blocks, and .3mm stay lines, and .2mm working lines.

Also, looking at the blocks on the cap rails (I think they're for running rigging), they look crappy too.  These are from the Mamoli kit - before I discovered Syren's beautiful blocks.  They come off too.
Gonna have to stop this at some point or she'll be stripped to her scuppers
 
- Tim

So I attempted the lower bowsprit rigging - don't like it.
I used the plan's sizes for the blocks and line; 4mm blocks and .4mm stay lines and .25mm for the draw (?) lines.  Too big.  Scale size for the blocks would be about 10.4" long.  Plus the line seizing is ratty.
 

 
Now, there was a time, before I started seeing all of the fine work you folks do, that this would have been good enough.
The bar has been set higher.  Dang you guys!
I will tear it all off and redo using Syren's 1/8" blocks, and .3mm stay lines, and .2mm working lines.

Hi Hamilton -
I haven't posted here in a while but I was looking at rfolsom's Cutty Sark build and he was attaching the chain plates for the lower dead-eyes.
Now that your cap rails are on, you will probably be doing chain plates soon.  I am reminded that the Mamoli plans said nothing about slanting the chain plates (in the text anyway), which sit quite a bit aft of the mast centers, forward toward the mast step (in the case of the mainmast).  I put mine in nearly straight up and down, and ended up bending the upper portion of the chain plates forward (broke two of them in the process ).  The drawing shows them slanting forward but through haste and inexperience I missed it.
Anyway, the moral of this story is that the chain plates are very brittle - you'll have to be forming them around the little bump out (insert nautical term here) - very dicey.
 
You (and several others) have convinced me that when I do the copper plating on my next build, I will leave the copper raw and let it patina on its own.
It looks very nice now, and the natural aging process will be much better.
Can't wait to see what's next!
 
- Tim

Hello Hamilton -
Looks like you've already started the plates.
I've edited my very first post to show what the copper plates looked like before I put the patina on.  The tape with the pounced rivets and embossed plate lines are three plates high (except where they are tapered in). I added them to my post rather than clutter up your post.  Take a look if you want.
At scale I guess it does look a bit overbearing - not nearly as extreme looking after the (heavy) patina though.
 
- Tim