Haze Gray

Hi CDW, As far as ready to 3D print boats....there are not many that I have found and only one or two interested me. If you search Thingverse for "calypso" that's a pretty good one - it's not designed for RC but can be modified to be. It's pretty well done, and there's some detail parts that will put any printer to the test for sure (crane winchs, etc. That's really what prompted me to start designing myself - the boats I really was looking for were simply not there!

Hello Thomas, I believe I was able to get a complete copy of all the files that were up on the Service Historique de la a Defense site ( I think!) yes there are a lot of copies around on the Internet including those at the "dreadnought project" website. As far as the Charles Martel goes - there's very little out there that I'm aware of, and the Russian site I listed is probably among the best I found. I even have another book in Russian that is about as good. If anyone has another reference please let me know. The French battleship Carnot I have found very little on (almost nothing) in the way of plans, much less than any of it's sister ships.

I've been 3D printing for awhile so I'm no stranger to longer print times. The first time I did a big part I did took 24 hours and I thought that there was no chance of it completing successfully, but it works and it did. I think the key part of 3D printing is that you spend your labor hours designing, and then you turn it over to the machine to actually produce - meanwhile you put in a day at work, have dinner, play with the kids, etc...

Yes, lots of things are changing - there are basically no more brick and mortar camera stores around in Seattle (maybe 2 I think) and the hobby stores are seem to be getting rarer as well. I think the "ready to run" and "ready to fly" aren't good competition to the video games which has huge $ behind it as an industry. Kids can learn to design and when they print something out they conceived themselves it does have much of the same satisfaction as when you construct something - you put some of yourself in there and once it's realized in the physical form there's the payoff.

I'm using eSun PLA+ which is pretty good for PLA, you just need to make sure (as with any PLA) you paint it as it can be sensitive to UV. ABS is another material I'm considering. For PLA, I've been using Jet Hot brand super glue, also the gorilla superglue is good. 18 days might seem like a lot but the machine does all the work at that point and right now I have the hull split into 9 segments so about 48 hours each. It is a 1/72 scale boat and so not exactly on the small end of the scale although I can print a 1/96 scale version of it in 10 days and use about 1/2 the material.

Actually, you can start with either one (keel or deck). On the USS Maine I started with the deck, and on the Charles Martel I started with the keel (mostly because there's 3 deck levels on the Charles Martel and I needed some time to get my head wrapped around how best to do that. My printer is just big enough to print the largest cross section of the Charles Martel model but it's pretty wide - the USS Brooklyn for instance is about 10% narrower but it is also about 10% longer. German ships from around the same period are definitely narrower but noticeably longer. With my current nozzle size and print settings a full hull for the USS Maine would take 18 days of continuous printing but I am getting pretty good results - I'll probably be testing a larger nozzle this weekend and see how fast I can print at an acceptable quality level.

Hi fnkershner, All really good questions - total length of the Charles Martel model in 1:72 is 1.6 meters or 5'3.6". I'm currently printing out the hull sections of the USS Maine that I am also working on (see here: https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/18130-uss-maine-by-haze-gray-172-scale-radio-plastic-3d-printed) I've printed hulls of different boats, usually I just glue them together but tabs can be good if they are done right - I do plan to add tabs to the USS Maine and the Charles Martel once I have figured out the best sections to slice the hull in. For the hull design I construct ribs as I'm 3d printing and want to control the thickness of the shell (see attached picture) and do use offset planes for each one and then loft. There's a lot of good videos on youtube for learning fusion 360 but not that many specific to boat hulls. I have not yet played around with the Deft Ship software that's also a common tool but I'm interested to try it in the near future.

Hi Hexnut, I'm running a Taz6 with a .4mm nozzle and .18 layer height.

I worked a little bit on the transom after work yesturday which reminded me that I should post a little bit about both the Charles Martel and using Fusion 360 to design and also 3d Printing boats. Fusion 360: First off, once you have the design reference you need and enough photographs (which can take a long time to find as I'm sure many of you know already) once you start sketching the boat in Fusion 360 the hardest parts to get right are the bow and the transom. The method I use to turn ribs into hulls involves the use of "lofting" function in Fusion 360. It works pretty well in that you select two faces of a sketch and it creates a solid body between the two sketches *unless* the two sketches are at right angles to each other. This means you have to get creative and sometimes it takes multiple attempts to get the program to loft and then you need to go back in and adjust the sketches to get the right shape. With the Charles Martel, I ran into an even tougher problem - the transom is rounded on the sides and on the top which doubles the effort and experimentation to get it right. I just got it right but I think it was more like "luck was on my side". I struggled for awhile only getting close and not being able to fully close the surfaces until I tried something a little different and it worked and I was able to take that and use if for the rest of the problem areas. Charles Martel: For those that want to read more about the Charles Martel follow this link - it's a translation of a Russian book that covers the the Martel and her four sister ships: Carnot, Jauréguiberry, Bouvet, and Masséna. https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fmilitary.wikireading.ru%2F35527 These 5 ships were called "sample ships" the design parameters were all the same in terms of high level performance, armor, and armament direction, so built to a broadly similar design, but different enough to be considered unique vessels.....however there were 4 different designers (one designed two, the rest each had their own designer). The design experiment of these ships was primarily the non-centerline armament arrangement. Subsequent ships produced later reverted back to the centerline type arrangement for the main armament. The Russian book above I linked to was somewhat critical of the design approach as most of the armor was concentrated along the waterline while most of the upper structure was thin metal that would leave the crew exposed. This exposure was probably not significant when the designs were initially conceived as armor piercing rounds would pass right through and only cause damage to what was directly in the path of the shell. However by the time these ships were launched the advent of powerful, effective, and reliable high explosive shells was descending on naval warfare and the absence of adequate protection above the waterline along with minimal watertight compartments meant these ships, including the Charles Martel, would not have a significant role in WW1.

Well, now that the kids are old enough to mind themselves to and from the bus stop I did mention to my wife how easy it would be to keep a few machines printing continuously during the day - maybe that could be a home business for her. Well, she immediately fired up the computer and started typing her resume! I took that as a signal she was not on board with the idea.

Hello All, As I'm in the downward section of the designing and printing the USS Maine, I couldn't help but start on the French Battleship Charles Martel. I think it's a beautiful boat and comes from an interesting time. I'm fascinated by the tumble home designs and the Charles Martel has that in spades! You can read more about the Charles Martel on Wikipedia here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_battleship_Charles_Martel Will write more later but for now, here's a shot of the hull in work. there's not a lot of definition in the pronounced armor belt ...yet, but there will be!

Hi Folks, One last picture - more of the hull done. I'll be switching over to the Scratch-build section from here on out, but after the Charles Martel I'll be doing the USS Kathadin (a ram boat!) and then will return here and let you all know if I'm doing the Carnot.... or not.. (I'm too funny). I'm so glad I found a group that can appreciate the pre-dreadnaughts!

Well got a good part out, saw a few things to change (move the slice point & put in the rear firing ports & the ports for the stern lines). There was a lot of support to remove (extra plastic material deposited to support overhangs) but I’m actually pretty pleased with how the portholes turned out. I added the rudder I printed out previously in one of the pics - fits perfectly. When you print parts that need to interface you have to establish what tolerance your printer can hold reliably. For some interfaces I can go down to 0.05 mm but I usually stick with 0.1mm.

Yes, I’m certainly in agreement, there’s nothing out there to suggest one was ever loaded on the Maine. In the photo of the main entering the harbor they are absent clearly. I am am currently printing the stern of the main, should be done around 7pm tonight!

Hi Dan, I most of those pictures also, and I love it when I find a good crisp large format film photo that's been digitized (some from the library of congress are over 100mb!). I'm definitely trying to get things right but (confession time) I'm totally new to fusion 360 so limited skill set - and most of the "plans" out there on the internet for the USS Main, while good when compared to photos are also clear that they are "general arrangements" and deviate from the "as built". I do plan to go back in the future and turn some iterations to get as accurate as possible - As for the Torpedo Boat being on the USS Maine (or not), is actually an interesting topic to me - I have not yet found any photos with the torpedo boat mounted. I've seen websites that mention the Main was not equipped, the second boat was not completed, the first just became a training boat and "most likely ended as scrap". I've not seen any primary source of merit mention the fate of the torpedo boats.....except one. I actually posted that a few days ago up in the thread but the end got cut off so attaching the relevant portion to this post. The Scientific American journal says it was destroyed along with the Maine! (key ominous music) (please don your aluminum foil hats!) Perhaps the little torpedo boat that was built was loaded up on the Maine just prior to the departure to Cuba.... and just maybe it was launched far off from the harbor as an insurance policy - if the Maine came under attack at night the torpedo boat would make for the harbor to try and attack the aggressor (large cruisers and battleships were easy prey for such a torpedo boat - especially in a harbor at night before "torpedo nets" were adopted). Possible that a small torpedo boat which can turn off it's boilers and run slow and silent into the port under remainder steam and pressure and either a) execute a hidden agenda to to torpedo a Spanish ship but mistake the Maine for it's target, or b.) slipped into the port in darkness with plans to be hoisted back on board when a lever, thought to be the one to discharge the air that would launch the torpedo , was in the utterly necessary and lightless stealth of darkness mistakenly the lever that actually launched the torpedo. ha! gets you thinking! Actually the whole reason I'm building these two torp boats is because, at 1/72 scale, they are just big enough for light weight RC gear and propulsion and I hope to be able to launch and recover them!

(message meant for AL actaully...) 3D printing is simple technology in that it lays down a layer of plastic type material at a thickness you specify. There's tweaking that needs to be done but once that's completed you can get reliable prints again and again. poor video but this camera is attached to the bed of my printer and shows the vertical build-up of a part (shroud the turrent spins inside). https://www.youtube.com/embed/baGSAz0jqbQ

Hi Roger, the magazine Marine Modeling International Nov 2013 issue (page 44) had a nice write up of the guy that made the plans (Rene Lefarve or something like that) and a 1/12.5 running steam boat model of the boat. The plans Rene made were available at some point - I was able to find a usable set. I've actually found a pic or two in the US national archives also. Attached a picture of the first torpedo boat that was produced for the USS Maine (as published in the Scientific American Navy boat Special Edition) that Google digitized - I think it was from about the time period of the USS Maine so 1898 or so.

Hello all, Things are moving along quite well in the design and build of the USS Maine. I've been concentrating on the hull and the control mechanisms and preparations for running in the water. I'm just about ready to start printing the hull - but have started with the turrents. Speaking of turrets here's a shot of the internals of the hull showing the servo pockets and a pulley on the turret support that will be used for rotation (along with mock ups of the propulsion and some exterior shots + a pic of a printed turret!

Talos - thank you! - I may (as in probably will) get that book - I did find a russian book that included hull lines for the Martel and had copies of most of the french ministry of defense drawings for carnot, messena, and Bouvet (which I already had) - I started lofting up the hull (see attached pic) I think photographs will be most of what I can use for reference since there's so few drawings of the Martel I've already started on the Charles Martel as I'm about 80% done with the USS Maine (basically print out, fix tolerences, add some details, and then reprint a final model). Basically I couldn't hold off starting the Martel, it is sooo cool! The Messina will come next or maybe the USS Katahdin So many boats I want to do, so little time!

Hello all, I’ve finally tracked down most of the plans I’ve been looking for- I even found some good (enough) drawings for the Charles Martel though im still having more challenges finding hull lines for the Carnot ( even Russian sources dont seem to have them). I’m getting ready to start printing the USS Main hull which will take about a week or so and in the meanwhile I can start on the Charles Martel hull in fusion 360. When I saw this pic of the Charles Martel I was instantly hook on the boat!

So, I apologize about resurrecting this thread from 3 years ago - the Massena and Carnot are two ships that got me hooked on everything that is pre-dreadnaught! Anyways, I’m currently designing the USS Maine in fusion 3D for 3D printing at 1/72 and would like to do the same for the Carnot and Messena, I’ve collected quite a bit of photos and some drawings but haven’t located design details for the hulls. I’d rather not eye-ball things so if anyone knows where I could get that information that would be wonderful! many thanks - Haze Gray

Hello all, I’d like to share a project I’ve been working on for the past month. I chose to start with the USS Maine in 1/72 scale but in truth I’m captivated by just about any pre-dreadnaught design especially some of the tumblehome hulls like the USS Brooklyn and the French Massena, Carnot, etc. Most of the work accomplished thus far has been in the cad program (fusion 360) but I’m just about to start printing parts as I move through and complete the design. I am including the torpedo boats that were meant for the Maine, and hope to eventually figure out a way to launch them while underway.