ClipperFan

"Stag Hound" by John Scott, The Sportsman's Repository 1845. Another good source for a naturally realistic Stag Hound figurehead. The more I look at the dogs, they're sort of like scruffy looking greyhounds. 😉

@rwiederrich Rob, I seem to find where Duncan McLean is vague is on his sparse description of ornamental embellishment. When it comes to construction details, I find him to be much more precise and specific. Interpreting his words is where I feel other modelers have strayed from historic accuracy. We have precious little as is to describe a stairway entrance other than this one line: "The deck itself is 44 feet long, and in its front, amidships, is a small square house or portico, to the entrance of the cabins." I feel like adhering to this even somewhat vague description honors documented accuracy. What's left up to conjecture, is size and placement. Chappelle's choice in 1967 was to sink the house halfway into the poop deck and have an apparent height of 6 feet. That would probably mean a 5 foot doorway, since the bottom lintel's elevated and the top needs some space too. I can see a 7 foot or maybe 6 & 1/2 foot height. Then again, why not make the portico flush mounted, with a front facing sliding door? That gives much more clearance. Either way, it still makes sense to have some sort of safety rail, since at minimum it's preventing a 6 foot fall injury. I'll post more revised concepts to see what makes most sense.

@Jared rereading your description, I recognized my mistake. What read to me as brass was actually basswood. For future reference, is it possible to save yourself an extra step by considering thickness that paint adds? Just a thought.

@rwiederrich Rob, making doors 28" like you suggest, what overall reduced size should the portico be, maybe 7'? Chappelle's deck illustration shows a much lower height than the 8' choice of mine. I still think for safety's sake, that a rail of some sort should be in place. I'm going to redo the illustration using 7' square to see how much of a difference it makes. Let me know which you believe makes most sense.

@Jared thanks for sharing your spiderband construction process with us. Nobody would have known you incorporated brass reinforcement had you not told us.

Rob, In keeping with the rear coach house front fascia on Glory of the Seas I figured a 30" door was most sensible. As far as I can tell, that's how the actual section of the door is. The rest is cladding around the door.

To give a sense of how challenging making transcripts can be, here are a few screenshots of Henry Hall's "Notebooks for Shipbuilding in the United States 1881-1883, Volume II, Models and Measurements" exhaustively detailed handwritten notes, March 24, 1883, New York. This is just a sample set of pages enumerating all scantlings of every one of Donald McKay's clipper ships, including Stag Hound. Incidentally, I scoured all notes regarding Stag Hound, there's no mention at all of the lower keel being 39 inches. You're welcome, by the way. This comes courtesy of Scott Bradner's excellent sobco.com site. For those who really want to see this entire pdf file, here's the link: http://www.sobco.com/ship_model/fc/files/Hall-Models_and_Measurements-1883.pdf Note: on a cell phone, hold your finger to open a new tab. On laptop, right click to open in a new tab, which should launch the pdf. Then click "open" to view or "download" to save it.

For anyone who's curious, here's a series of actual Staghounds. They aren't a registered AKC Breed but essentially what I've read is that it's a cross between Scottish Deerhounds (often called Staghounds in Scotland) and Greyhounds. You can see from the trainer struggling to hold 2 of these powerful canines back that they can really run. The painting shows a hound chasing a stag, which is very similar to the figurehead's pose as described: "a carved and gilded staghound represented panting in the chase."

@rwiederrich so I will just leave well enough alone and not confuse Vlad with this little off the path trek to nowhere ...

@druxey Using a 39" outer keel plus a 16" inner results in 55" total, pushing the height of all her masts up 9". Meanwhile to stay at 46" as described in more than one place, with the outer keel being 39" forces inner down to 7" which is impossibly thin. I honestly believe others weren't paying as careful attention, so a transcript recording error occurred which nobody bothered to fact check.

@rwiederrich my vote is to leave the keel at 30 inches. A 16 inch upper keel is far more substantial than 7.

Bill What compunds the tragic nature of this, to me at least bone-headed decision to take on a monster hurricane (reported strengthening and expanding on all weather stations), is that they could have easily sailed a short distance up the Hudson river and put into a safe harbor there. A place they had relied on before. They would have lost a day's sailing time. Then again a great, great niece of original mutineer Fletcher Christian wouldn't have lost her life too...

@rwiederrich Rob, In all fairness to Vlad, I have to let him know the keel was reported as being 39 inches clear of the garboards and not 30. Then again, how Cornelius got that off doesn't make sense. Of course, if the total combined depth of the keel still totals 46 inches, that drops an upper section from 16 down to a mere 7 inches, which also defies credulity. Is it possible that hand-written recorded 30 inches was simply misread as 39? That seems more believable.

@rwiederrich Rob, Muntz filed his British and US patent for his metal on October 22, 1832 (the US patent was one of 1,000s lost in a US patent office on December 15, 1836 fire. Still it had been previously reported a year later, in "The Journal of the Franklin Institute, vol 12, 1833") and the British patent survives today. Both patents were filed 18 years prior to launch of Stag Hound. To me it's impossible to think Donald McKay, on the cutting edge of maritime design even for his highly popular packet ships, wasn't aware of this revolutionary development. And to believe McKay (a frugal Scottsman too) would have still employed more costly, inferior copper decades later, when far superior Muntz metal, at a cost of two-thirds less was widely available just doesn't make any sense at all. Meanwhile, technically muntz "yellow metal" is still copper, as it's roughly 60% copper, 40% zinc with other iron alloys. My view, based on this historic research is that the "copper" McLean referred to was in reality Muntz metal which was simply, lazily referred to as copper instead.

@rwiederrich Rob, my last statement was to let you know that I fully respect that you're the person building your replica. I just re-read the McLean article in full and apparently I'm missing your reference, because I couldn't find a single reference to any cladding, copper or otherwise. But I did discover something that I apparently missed before. Her keel, clear of the garboards was 39 inches not 30 inches as described by Donald's son Cornelius. Then again, Cornelius also said her strakes were 4 inches when the McLean description repeatedly said 4 & 1/2 inches. But back to the discussion of copper vs Muntz metal. I discovered how Enoch Train learned about Donald McKay. In early 1844 on a visit to England, to make arrangements for his new Transatlantic Packet line, Mr Train happened to meet Dennis Condry. He was the owner of the Delia Walker, of Newburyport. The ship happened to be built under supervision of... a young Donald McKay. Condry was so impressed with McKay's work that he urged Train to see McKay first, before any other ship Builder to construct his brand new line of packet ships. When he returned from his trip to England, Enoch followed the advice of Mr Condry. According to Captain Arthur Clark "it was the swift contact of flint and steel." Less than an hour later, Enoch Train placed an order with Donald McKay for a brand new 620-ton packet ship, named Joshua Bates. Mr Train was so delighted with this inaugarul packet ship that he convinced Mr McKay to open up his own shipyard in East Boston which Mr Train offered to finance. Ultimately, Donald McKay built packet ships for Enoch Train's White Diamond Line. Here's why, after reading about this history, I'm convinced that all of those ships would have all been clad in Muntz metal, not copper. Think critically about it. By the time Muntz metal was introduced as an alternative to copper, it was 8 years earlier in 1836. According to the history of Muntz metal there as widespread adaptation in England. In a few short years it went from 50 to 100 to 200 to 400 vessels. Meanwhile British Admiralty made a bold decision to strip all of its vessels copper cladding and replace it with Muntz metal. With it being less costly and far more corrosion resistant, why would Enoch Train, taking on a high risk venture of establishing a brand new Transatlantic Packet line not select the less expensive, more effective yellow metal "copper" lining? To me, it defies logic. Now think about the extreme clipper Stag Hound Donald McKay's premiere entry into the highly competitive world of fast sailing merchant vessels. We know he intentionally made a statement by designing and constructing the largest merchant ship in the world. It was established fact by 1850 ships clad in yellow metal actually sailed faster than those with the old copper. Why wouldn't McKay use the best and proven fastest?

@Snug Harbor Johnny very solid research with some disturbing end results. It also emphasizes the remarkable longevity of McKay's last, longest lived clipper ship Glory of the Seas launched in 1869, yet still afloat in 1923... 54 years later. Pity her last owners didn't maintain her yellow sheathing or she might still be with us today. As fate would have it, the committee formed to recue her decided due to dry rot that she wouldn't be seaworthy enough to make the journey around Cape Horn. At least her magnificent figurehead was saved before she became a funeral pyre.

@rwiederrich Is that pre-restoration Cutty Sark? When I read about your decision to portray a copper sheathed Stag Hound and not one using Muntz metal, it made me think. Muntz metal was invented in 1836, 14 practically 15 years before McKay launched his inaugural clipper ship. In England, popularity for this revolutionary "yellow metal" often referred to as coppering spread like wildfire. It was more effective and cheaper than copper. Meanwhile, prior to building his clipper ships, Donald McKay was deeply involved in the Transatlantic packet ship trade supplying Enoch Train with 5 ships from 1845-1849. Large vessels which regularly sailed from Boston to London. I find it hard to believe that Donald McKay who always seemed to be on the cutting edge of marine design, wouldn't have become aware of this exciting new cladding, which would have been introduced almost a decade earlier. Regardless, it's your model, your choice. I'm just giving you my observations.

Bill, Tragically, the HMS Bounty film replica foundered during the monster hurricane Sandy. Apparently, her captain forgot how the original ship which his vessel was an authentic reinterpretation of. didn't fare that well fighting the massive waves of Cape Horn.

One more favorite of mine: "Clipper Stag Hound" original oil by Charles Lundgren, done for the collectible plate series "The Golden Age of Sail." From the detail, it's obvious that as evocative and beautiful as this painting is, the stag hound figure awkwardly projects from the prow and looks more like a bulldog. In addition, there's no navel hoods or cutwater, nor a central portico that can be seen and in fact the mizzen mast appears to be mounted on the poop deck. Still, I love the painting and somewhere in storage I have this collectible along with the entire series....

Rob, I'm unsure if you already shared this powerful piece or not "Angry Seas, US Clipper Stag Hound" - 1990 James Brereton

Rob, All masts rake equally. If Chappelle's illustration is off, either the photo is off or he made a mistake.

@rwiederrich @Vladimir_Wairoa @Luis Felipe I rechecked Stag Hound mizzenmast diameter and realized that a 30 inch diameter I was working with was incorrect. It's actually 26 inches. That mere 4 inches gives more clearance to the rear portico conceptual rail. Here's my revised sketch, done at 1:48th scale. At least I believe that's the correct scale for 1/4th inch =:1 foot. I used a door design taken directly from one removed from Glory of the Seas.

@Luis Felipe welcome aboard! Thank you for the beautiful Stag Hound artwork. I recognize the first and last pieces as those by Cape Cod artist Frank Vining Smith. This is going to be a wonderful project, which is already proceeding quite rapidly. Rob can't wait to start making wood chips fly. Meanwhile Vladimir has been struggling to reconcile the Crothers body plan in order to create computer generated bulkheads. He will most likely do 2 sets at 1:96th & 1:72nd scale once ready. I love the plans you're already drafting. To help you avoid "reinventing the wheel" by revisiting work we've already done there's some items I want to make you familiar with. First our #1 most reliable source for the sheer profile of Stag Hound has been decided. It's the 1:48 scale, 4 feet, 8 & 1/2 inches half hull model crafted by Donald McKay's own son, Cornelius in 1850. He describes in his letter to Captain Arthur H Clark how he literally had access to lofting lines of the actual ship as she was being built. There is no more reliably documented resource. Unfortunately there's no body plan yet found by him, although he says in his letter such a drawing exists. Vladimir overlayed the McKay bow profile onto my reconstructed bow based on the 1881 Henry Hall lines, which were directly downloaded from Google books, so there's no distortion. The other solidly reliable resource is the December 21, 1850 Boston Daily Atlas article written by Duncan McLean. Since Stag Hound was Donald McKay's premier, inaugural extreme clipper and the largest merchant vessel of her type in the world, more specific details than usual were supplied. One such pithy fact is that the center of the mizzenmast was actually 2 feet further away from the fore of the poop deck. It's due to a glossed-over fact that the sternpost had a rake of 2 feet aft! So instead of 5 feet it's actually 7 feet away. Now there's enough room to fit an 8 foot square portico, recessed 4 feet. Here's a link to this fascinating article: http://www.bruzelius.info/Nautica/News/BDA/BDA(1850-12-21).html I look forward to your contributions. I'm still blown away by your fabulous scratch-built tea clipper Sir Lancelot.