ClipperFan

@hof00 Harry, Exactly what items are you referring to when you say visible deck bulwark stanchions? Are you asking about turned rail stanchions which support the guardrail that surrounds the poop deck?

deer @hof00 Harry, I found those dimensions listed for Donald McKay's final medium clipper Glory of the Seas. This page from Jan-Feb Seaways Ships of Scale describes frame sizes and the spacing between them. Attached too is the 'tween deck photo described to you earlier. I hope this is the information you were looking for. I realize this isn't specific to Flying Cloud but it's the same clipper ship designer and it's logical to think such components were kept similar for basic construction. "The floor timbers are sided 15 inches and moulded 20 inches on the keel with 28 inches space-of frames from center to center, and as the frames ascend, they vary from 12 inches by 14 inches to 8 inches by 11 inches, and the bulwark stanchions at the plank-sheer are sided 11 inches and moulded 8 inches."

@hof00 Harry, There are no known photos of Flying Cloud. I couldn't find any specific dimensions for her bulwarks either. However, Michael Mjelde's first book Glory of the Seas includes a Duncan McLean, Boston Daily Atlas article in an appendix. Very specific dimensions of her bulwark stanchions, varying width, depth and distance between each are included. We shared it in the Glory of the Seas build log by @rwiederrich When we get a chance, either Rob or I will share those specifics here. In addition, there's a photo of the ship's 'tween decks. Inside her outer skin (bulkheads) are fascinating criss-cross structural reinforcements. Dead center of the X formed are additional horizontal stringers which run the entire length of the ship. Essentially this creates an engineering six-point latticework to strengthen the entire vessel. No such description of these structural members being installed in Flying Cloud exists. However, due to her great length (she was the world's largest merchant vessel at her launch) it makes total sense that these would have been included. Again, it reminds me of the fact that McKay jealously guarded his nautical secrets. When I get a chance, I'll share it too with you.

@rwiederrich Rob, Knowing how challenging it was for you to replicate those naval hoods for your Glory of the Seas model, it might just be others hadn't figured out exactly how the McKay shipyard manufactured them. Think about the complex twisting curvatures involved. It would take some engineering precision to accomplish that. Most likely other contemporary ship builders either didn't see the advantage to this inventive nautical design or they couldn't figure out how to construct it. I know this for a fact, I have never seen anything like it on any other ship and I have perused literally 100s of rare clipper ship photos. Clearly Donald McKay himself jealously guarded this feature, as an ultra rare sketch of his Australian Black Ball clipper Lightning sketched in his own hand has a mysterious 10 foot blank space at the bow right were the cutwater and those hoods would normally appear! Ironically, this American Heritage Junior Library book "Clipper Ships and Captains, pages: 114-115 is the only source where I discovered this document. Meanwhile, look how much difficulty we've had in convincing others that these peculiar nautical devices existed. Even Scott Bradner of SOBCO.com website devoted in-depth to Flying Cloud has completely missed the significance of this unique bow structure. Simply amazing.

@hof00 Harry, Should you be able to accurately include to scale the unique McKay bow, including curving cutwater and those fascinating naval hoods (really an extension of the prow itself) yours will be the first accurate replica of Flying Cloud ever!

@rwiederrich Rob, Did you ever think that probably one of the most significant developments of our 2 year investigation into McKay's final clipper ship would be rediscovery of his 174 year old secret bow design? It turns out Glory of the Seas is a genuine "Rosetta Stone" finally unveiling McKay's obsessively guarded secrets. It must have been quite a reinforcement to the aggressive bows on his vessels and quite possibly contributed to even better sailing performance. Fashioning those convoluted naval hood structures might also have been a guarded secret too. I cover this development in the second article, which I finally intend to complete this Fall.

@Jared nice second effort on getting those bobstay chainlinks tighter. They look nice. Happy 4th of July!

@Jared Nice craftsmanship building your chainplates. I've attached a picture of the starboard bow of Glory of the Seas, so you can see how the upper end of the bobstay chainlinks connect to 'deadeyes'. Shackles on the bowsprit originate at the base of the two outermost iron bands. I hope this helps you with this part of your build.

@Jared it wasn't my intention to embarrass you with Vlad's prowess at craftsmanship. It was merely to help out seeing how others have dealt with similar rigging projects you will do. As for skill level. The farthest I've progressed is building the 3' Revell Cutty Sark, so my abilities are way behind pretty much everyone on this site, including you.

@Jared credit for all pics go to @Vladimir_Wairoa who took all of them. I merely rotated and lightened up the first illustration. Vlad also did a great write up on his entirely scratchbuilt rigging process. The specific post referenced is to his bowsprit rigging series. What's incredible is that this was Vlad's first foray into rigging. All of his yards fully articulate, not just sideways but also vertically like on actual vessels. That's why he chose the larger 1:72nd scale. Both @rwiederrich and Vladimir's build logs have a wealth of rigging details.

@Jared pg 27, post #785 of @Vladimir_Wairoa has excellent details with photographic proof of how McKay's clipper Glory of the Seas had her bowsprit rigged. The first image is Michael Mjelde's bowsprit rig illustration, next is a detail from the 1877 Glory docked at San Francisco, next 3 are Vladimir's model. Note how rigging is not evenly spaced but staggered closer to the tip. I hope this helps!

@Jared your Flying Fish is shaping up to be an elegantly beautiful model.

@hof00 the McKay Extreme Clipper Flying Cloud you're carefully building is one of my favorites. This may come as a surprise but based on reading the precise description of her by publicist Duncan McLean of the Boston Daily Atlas, April 20th, 1851 not one of the beautiful Flying Cloud models is factually accurate to her true appearance, even the spectacular one at Addison's Gallery, Phillip's Academy, MA. That's because unique McKay bow nautical structural features have never been incorporated in any reproduction ever produced. That includes a 3/4th reproduction Flying Cloud vessel built in Lunenberg, Nova Scotia by the same craftsmen who built the HMS Bounty film replica. I saw this lovely Clipper ship when she was docked in Boston in the 1970s. Donald McKay jealously guarded his nautical design secrets. I believe he was so successful that one of his key components have been lost to Modeler's for centuries. Until now. Thanks to Michael Mjelde's generosity in sharing ultra rare Glory of the Seas photos, we now have incontrovertible proof of these rare structures. But you don't have to take my word for it. Here are excerpts from The Boston Daily Atlas write-up: "She has neither head nor trailboards, but forming the extreme, where the line of the planksheer and the carved work on the naval hoods terminate, she has the full figure of an angel on the wing, with a trumpet raised to her mouth "... Later in his description of this largest merchant ship in the world, McLean observes the ruggedness of this unique bow structure: "Her hood ends are bolted alternately from either side, through each other and the stem so that the loss of her cutwater would not affect her safety or cause a leak." (italics added by me to emphasize specific components) Here's a link to the entire article: http://www.bruzelius.info/Nautica/News/BDA/BDA(1851-04-25).html I've attached a few images to illustrate the points I'm making. (1) large Flying Cloud Boucher model in Addison's Gallery, Phillip's Academy, Andover, MA (Boston Globe). Spectacular but sadly, inaccurate. (2) an authentic 1871 oil by John Scott "Flying Cloud off Whitby in North Yorkshire, England. Notice gold embellished naval hoods above the carved cutwater supporting a white winged trumpet bearing angel. Her large single topsails have been divided and her mast heights reduced but that's typical for 20 year old ships. (3) an authentic 1913 Muir photo starboard bow close up of McKay's final Medium clipper Glory of the Seas. Clearly visible are her carved naval hood, just above her Grecian goddess Athene figurehead which rests on her carved Cutwater which overlays her hidden stem. Just like McLean described, her bow survived an impact with a Steamer. Damage is limited to her upper splash rail which is cracked. Photo courtesy of author Michael Mjelde. (4) reverse of Henry Hall's Flying Cloud profile, which I traced to recreate her actual historically accurate appearance, finally restoring her critical nautical devices: naval hoods and cutwaters, overlaying her stem. (5) my reconstructed Flying Cloud bow, all components illustrated to 1:96 scale. Utilizing the Flying Cloud profile from Henry Hall's "Notebooks for shipbuilding in the United States, 1881-1883." similar to the technique used by Björn Landström, I've reconstructed the true appearance of McKay's famous Flying Cloud, incorporating all missing components as originally designed. It's my hope that finally, the true appearance of his vessel will finally be realized

@rwiederrich Rob, these comparison shots are so cool. I particularly appreciate how you're duplicating the pictures of your replica to match as closely as possible the actual vessel herself. As for the second article. Once I get into the story, tales pretty much write themselves. Clearing out other life's challenges will allow me to finally conclude this piece.

@rwiederrich Rob, when it comes to reproducing a vessel in scale, while admittedly it's a challenge to keep items scale accurate, the benefit is a far more believable replica. Footropes and stirrups as discussed, serve a very specific function. That's to supply crew a useful perch to work equipment on yards. Having too long stirrups defeats the purpose of even having them. In this case, utilizing 1:96th scale figures would facilitate instillation of these important lines. A carefully thought out model, especially in reproducing these meticulous details really elevates the overall quality of the whole.

@rwiederrich Rob, another ultra rare scene shared with us by Michael Mjelde. To me, this is definitive proof that on McKay's clippers, his large after-house walls gradually narrow to match a ship's outward Bulwarks. This gives crew consistent working area to handle the ship. Anyone working on a Flying Fish model who hasn't yet built their large Coach House now has the benefit of incontrovertible photographic evidence to rely on. Another aspect of this impressive scene is the elegantly slim lower Stern hull, which is clearly evident by the beautiful waterline. Once again, your lovely miniature captures this aspect beautifully.

@rwiederrich Rob, it never ceases to amaze me how your recreation shows so much fealty to the actual Glory of the Seas vessel herself! I remember how much we originally struggled to overcome bias of previously published documentation. This is where your fortuitous meeting with Michael Mjelde arranged by @TheAuthorsDaughter Arina was the turning point in our investigation. You couldn't have asked for a more comprehensive, knowledgable resource than the world's most authoritative author on every iota of Glory of the Seas. His remarkably clear historic photos were the key to unlocking her true Hull configuration. I recall how thrilling it was to finally see an uncropped image of Glory's underwater Hull as revealed in the Spokane Grain dockside scene. Your remarkable entirely scratch-built model along with @Vladimir_Wairoa Vlad's painstakenly recreated model are two of the finest I've ever seen!

@BANYAN rest assured @rwiederrich isn't done building his fantastic models. He's just taking a Summer break to handle other projects, vacations, etc. His Donald McKay project is just on hold, probably 'til Fall. He's also mentioned future plans to build the only Pacific built Extreme Clipper Western Shore.

Rob @rwiederrich the amazing accuracy of your miniature replica to the actual subject matter is truly a testament to the intensive, months long research we all invested into assuring fealty to Donald McKay's magnificent last, longest-lived clipper ship! What an exhilarating experience to take this journey with you, Vlad, @druxey et all this has been. Special thanks are owed to @TheAuthorsDaughter Arina who's critical introduction of Rob to her famous author dad Michael Mjelde literally brought our reconstruction efforts to a whole new level. Mike's immensely generous contributions with seemingly never ending treasure trove of rare photos and accompanying documents were priceless. His involvement ensured meticulous accuracy in this, dare I say, unique project. I personally know of no other effort which has so accurately resurrected the true appearance of a McKay clipper ship like this group has done. Resulting in not one but two large highly accurate miniatures of Glory of the Seas!

@Jared you'll be relieved to know that unlike Glory of the Seas which was equipped with Howes Rigs for upper and lower topsails, your earlier Flying Fish wasn't rigged with such advanced equipment, which hadn't been invented yet. All yards on your vessel have identical relatively simple shackles.

@PvG Aussie for another look at Vlad's talented work, he's currently in process of building the 1799 French frigate L'Égyptienne using boxwood which he considers a very workable substance. His ability to meticulously translate 2D blueprints to exacting 3D nautical components is remarkable!

Rob, Now having seen how tall Athene really is truly drives home how massive this vessel really was! I love how you masterfully captured the loveliness of her bow!