ClipperFan

@rwiederrich Rob, Agreed, Vlad is a wonder on the computer. You can let me know if you agree or not. My strong feeling is that the port broadside photo of the Cornelius McKay model is the single best hull realization of any source we've located. I'm going to see if my local printer can blow it up to 2' 4", equivalent to 1:96 scale dividing 225 ft overall by 8, considering 1:96 equals 1" is 8'. To that I would add 18" (3/16th" at 1:96th scale) on top for the monkey rail, counting on the main top rail being 5' from the deck. McLean describes bulkheads as being 6 & 1/2' high. Meanwhile, the keel is described as being 30" (2 & 1/16ths") deep. The stem would extend the same, then add cutwater and naval hoods with the running canine figurehead. I saw that the Crothers plans include the monkey rail and keel. Vladimir's grid based profile looks very close to the Cornelius model but I can't tell if it matches exactly or not. It's also unclear if Vladimir's grid profile includes monkey rail and keel or if those items still need to be added. So far he hasn't replied to my questions.

@rwiederrich Rob, That's not on Glory of the Seas. My conclusion is it's an error. Most likely due to it being installed on Cutty Sark. I would leave it off.

@hof00 Harry, My intent is just to assist modelers in their objectives to create a more accurate version of the ship they're working on. As far as doing actual modeling myself. I never progressed beyond plastic models. I am constantly impressed with wooden construction capabilities of craftsmen like yourself. When fashioning a McKay bow, the other component to remember is the cutwater below the naval hoods. This important component is what gives McKay's clipper ships like Flying Cloud their yacht like appearance. On the real vessel, her trumpet bearing, winged angel figurehead has her feet attached to the cutwater, while a large, hidden iron bar mounted her to naval hoods above. She was about 7 feet long and projected about 8 feet out with the cutwater. I hate to make your modeling efforts even harder but at 1:96th scale, she'll be 7/8ths of an inch projecting out another inch with the cutwater. Tiny, for sure. By having such a small figurehead in scale makes the rest of your ship larger in comparison. The anchor hawse hole is much lower than on your plans as it exits below the naval hoods. Since the height of the exterior molding between lower planksheer and upper mainrail is 4 feet, a foot above the inner deck due to her foot high inner waterways, the rear of the naval hood curving triangular shape is 3 & 1/2 feet, depth of the cutwarer below would be 2 feet.

@druxey Thanks for the Latin course. I had to use a translation app just to find out it simply means "with a grain of salt" or "don't take literally." Actually, Chappelle's plans are quite close in profile to the Cornelius model. Spacing for masts and deck fittings appear to be slightly off but that could also be due to some distortion from challenges in scanning a thick book. The thing that has always baffled me is this. Why have such an apparently cavalier treatment of McKay's clipper ships always been given by a commercial modeling industry? Whenever I saw a McKay clipper it always bugged me how plain the bow was. In addition, it made me uncomfortable to see how awkward figureheads looked, just tacked on below a bowsprit. It makes me wonder, Lars Bruzelius did his copywrite for his website in 1999. Before that, were Boston Daily Atlas articles that hard to locate? Now we've learned that my suspicions were right all along. Every McKay model has been wrong. A plain stem was not how he designed his revolutionary clippers. In fact, after looking at dozens of other big American clippers, we've learned that one of Donald McKay's closely guarded secrets, which nobody else copied, was his complex prow structure. Cutwaters extended the stem. They were in turn then thoroughly bolted through on both sides by durable naval hoods, really an extension of the graceful hull. As a comparison, Rob shared an image of the prow of the bark Amy Turner. Typical clippers had a simple cutwater to which a figurehead was mounted. This in no way resembles the unique McKay bow. As we develop Stag Hound it will become clear how much of an advantage this rugged prow was. That will just be one of the exciting features as we finally realize McKay's first beauty.

@rwiederrich The last Stag Hound hull and sail plan I shared comes from David MacGregor's 1973 publication "Fast Sailing Ships 1775 - 1875 Their Design and Constructiom"

@Jared Nicely done. She looks real clean, neat and tidy.

@rwiederrich Of course, we all noticed that compared to the Chappelle plans, the Cornelius model looks a little slim. Reading the son's letter he revealed that the 30" keel has to be added below. I know for a fact too, that the uppermost monkey rail is not included on half-hull models. That adds 16-18" on top. Which would then make her appearance more full. Here's where @Vladimir_Wairoa added in his computer imagery talents. He created profiles of the Chapelle lines and compared them to both Hall and Cornelius. It's clear that the Chappelle hull is a little short vs the Cornelius model. That's most likely due to Chappelle plans being scanned from a book where part in the center bends in. As we proceed, that will be fixed.

@rwiederrich Afterwords, I found the large, precisely carved "half-hull" model, crafted by McKay's own son Cornelius, taken from moulding lines directly off the lofting floor as Stag Hound was being built! There's no more authoritative source than a direct descendant of Donald testifying as to the historical authenticity of his own creation honoring his father. Even more fascinating is that the image with excerpt of a letter originated in a 1928 publication by another relative, Richard McKay in his encyclopedic book "Some Famous Sailing Ships and Their Builder Donald McKay." Two profiles are very similar with an exception being the authentic model has a more vertical underwater prow. Next step is to redraw ship and bow accurately using the McKay model.

@rwiederrich While researching bow structure for Glory of the Seas I stumbled on the exact same description of the elusive naval hoods and cutwater overlapping the stem for the bow of Stag Hound! Using plans online from the "Report on the Ship-Building Industry in the United States 1884" by Henry Hall, I sketched this 1:96th scale reconstruction of her surprisingly beautiful yacht like prow. The image is reversed since I traced the lines.

@rwiederrich Rob, I wouldn't worry about the technicality. If someone knows, I'm sure they'll share the "how to." Meanwhile, here's more of the images we shared privately before to get your build log up to date. First 5 are lightened up lines from Howard I Chappelle's 1967 publication "The Search For Speed Under Sail", including Vladimir's computer matched plans. Last is a first edition book cover, for anyone unfamiliar with this comprehensive work. Chappelle's works are beautiful but still unfortunately inaccurate (slightly off topic but another bone I have to pick, besides her completely plain bow, is the ridiculously small rear coach house on Sovereign of the Seas. "She has a full topgallant forecastle, a large house amidships and a spacious trunk cabin, in two divisions, built into a half poop deck, with steerage room abaft." The Boston Daily Atlas, June 19, 1852. The line "steerage room abaft" says that this was a large cabin which occupied the entire poop similar to Flying Fish which preceeded this vessel, yet every model I've seen has that tiny small cabin instead! Back to the current topic.) So when constructing scratch built replicas, in order to get accurate results, I've learned it's quite essential to compare actual historical descriptions by Duncan McLean in The Boston Daily Atlas to other purported sources. Regardless, we still plan on referring to Chappelle's deck layout but getting it faithful to the December 20, 1850 details.

@rwiederrich Rob, To help others avoid pitfalls of incorrectly modeling Stag Hound based on erroneous plans, I'm sharing this evaluation we made of a beautifully crafted but wildly inaccurate model. Most likely due to a lack of accurate information and misinterpretation of another's description of a half-poop deck, EB Douglas drafted these Stag Hound clipper plans in 1922. Hull form looks very close to Howard Chappelle's lines and sailing rig is very similar to David Macgregor's. Too bad Mr Douglas apparently had no access to Duncan McLean's far more accurate description, which included the fact that the Stag Hound poop deck was 44' long, "half" the size of others. That, and typical of all McKay models, the bow is plain. Nothing at all like the real ship which had complex naval hoods and cutwaters overlapping her stem, which augmented her sharp prow.

@rwiederrich since I see you've already laid out the Chappelle lines from his book "The Search for Speed Under Sail" I will endeavour to keep up with your remarkably swift construction pace. Meanwhile I'm going to share another inspiring work of this magnificent McKay first. This one's titled "Stag Hound in the Tea Trades" by Cape Cod artist Frank Vining Smith. He really captures her lean lithe hull and very lofty rig in a beautiful ocean setting.

Rob,. No need to apologize, I just wanted you to know it was misplaced so you could correct it. I apologize if I embarrassed you.

Rob, At first, I couldn't locate your Stag Hound build log because I looked for it in the section for vessels built between 1801-1850. With your permission, I'm going to share some of the most beautiful artwork that inspires me to love Donald McKay's premiere inaugural extreme clipper. Back in the late 50's for Christmas presents, our parents gave us two Revell clipper ship models. I was given the Flying Cloud while my elder brother received the Stag Hound. I remember really loving my model which had a spectacular image of the clipper ship flying dramatically in stormy rough weather. Meanwhile, my brother's had a peaceful painting of his ship by artist John Steel. That was my first exposure to Stag Hound. Time-Life Books Seafarer Series "The Clipper Ships" had an inspiring piece by JE Buttersworth. Since it's a two page spread the fold can't be eliminated. Later I found another image of the same piece courtesy of The South Street Seaport. The majesty and impressive length, not to mention lofty spars of McKay's premiere extreme clipper are all on beautiful display. At the time of her launch, Stag Hound was the undisputed largest merchant vessel in the world. However. to my knowledge, there's not one accurate version of this marvelous ship that's ever been created. That's primarily due to Donald McKay himself being so successful at guarding his nautical secrets that his unique bow construction has been lost since 1850! Rob, Vladimir, I and a few others like Druxey with unparalleled help of author Michael Mjelde engaged in a remarkable journey to reconstruct McKay's final, longest lived medium clipper Glory of the Seas. Through the ever generous documents and even more rare contemporary images, dating all the way back to her launch and fitting out in 1869, Michael Mjelde has been a priceless contributor in our goal to finally realize the stalwart beauty of this spectacular ship. As we gradually unveiled McKay's secrets, repeatedly the thought occured to me that Glory of the Seas was becoming a maritime "Rosetta Stone" to discovering the true appearance of Donald McKay's other beautiful clipper ships. So, armed with the experience and knowledge we've garnered, we're applying our research abilities to finally realize the historically accurate appearance of Stag Hound the innovative vessel which started it all for McKay and which put Boston on an equal footing with rival New York. While there exists no known photos of this early clipper, there are some useful resources. Chief among them is a large 1:48th scale, 4 foot, 8 inches half-hull Stag Hound model carved by McKay's own son Cornelius. There's a single, useful broadside picture of the model featured in the 1928 publication "Famous Sailing Ships and Their Builder Donald McKay." This encyclopedic book with many beautiful full color illustrations was written by another relative, Richard McKay. To researchers, besides the spectacular model itself, the first hand account by the son emphasizes how meticulously accurate his model was, since he literally constructed it precisely from lines of the full-sized ship taken right off the moulding loft floor as she was being built. Cornelius further emphasized that all of his father's "builder's models" had been previously destroyed. Another valuable resource comes from Lars Bruzelius's wonderful website which contains dozens of highly accurate, very specific construction details of sailing vessels. Among them, I discovered an article by publicist Duncan McLean, The Boston Daily Atlas written on December 21, 1850. Here's a link to the entire article: http://www.bruzelius.info/Nautica/News/BDA/BDA(1850-12-21).html Based on that description, I sketched this bow of Stag Hound, for the first time illustrating her authentic, historically accurate appearance including those pesky, misunderstood naval hoods and cutwater overlapping her stem, which everybody before have missed! Since my original drawing was based on the 1881 Hall lines, they differ slightly from the more accurate Cornelius McKay model. Vladimir's using his computer skills to reconcile the two lines. His red line of the half-hull model overlap the gray lines of my original pencil sketch. This promises to be another fascinating collaboration.

@hof00 Harry, I tried twice to answer your questions on my cell phone only to lose my texts both times. Now I'll explain why I added 3 Glory of the Seas pics to your questions about Flying Cloud bulkhead stanchions. First, those stanchions are also the ship's frames. There're no specific dimensions given for Flying Cloud but as I shared for Glory those frame stanchions were 28 inches apart center to center and were sided 11 inches and molded 8 inches. I'm not as fluent in metric as I am in standard measurement. So, you'll need to use a conversion tool for that. 1:96th scale is 1-inch equals 8 feet. 1/8th inch equals 1 ft (width would be just under that) 1/16th inch is 6 inches (depth would be slightly more). Modeling at the scale you're working on, I would err on the side of making details smaller than oversized as it will make your vessel look larger. Now to explain the pictures. From your bow image, it concerns me that your bowsprit opening appears to be too low. In addition, it's oval when in reality these spars were actually rectangular. The top image is the famous Black photo of Glory of the Seas on the launch ways at the Peabody-Essex Museum, Salem, Mass. First, notice how high up the bowsprit mounts in the ship. It's just above the sheer line molding and below the main rail top. The close-up detail shows how the mounted entrance is not round but instead rectangular. The 1913 Muir photo starboard image of Glory of the Seas at the Spokane Grain Dock is a great resource to show the unique McKay prow in meticulous detail. It's a little hard to make it out, since jib sails cover part of this, but the inner jibboom narrows about 5 to 6 feet before it enters the rectangular opening at the monkey rail. Below that is the large bowsprit which also widens a little and becomes rectangular as it enters the opening just above the sheer line. This mechanical design makes sense as it makes it impossible for either massive spar to rotate, which could lead to disastrous consequences. Immediately below and reinforcing the bowsprit-jibboom combination are the substantial bow extensions referred to as naval hoods. lovely Grecian goddess Athene mounts directly to these combined nautical devices via a massive iron bar, which I personally saw on my recent visit to see her in person. They still wear the lovely intertwining ribbon carvings which were originally gilded in gold leaf. Behind and below her feet are the cutwaters which overlap the stem and are in turn sandwiched between the naval hoods. Only a small section of the original ornate acanthus leaf carvings remains. Another detail that commercial models get wrong is placement of the anchor chain hawse hole. That's due to the fact that they've completely missed inclusion of the devices I just enumerated, and which can be clearly seen here. What simply blows my mind is that this unusual prow arrangement has been on every McKay clipper, save one, the Great Republic since Donald McKay debuted his inaugural extreme clipper Stag Hound December 1850! Correct placement of this hawse hole is immediately below the base of the naval hoods, as can be clearly seen in this remarkable image. I sincerely hope these factual insights will enable you to create your most accurate Flying Cloud model that you desire.

@hof00 Harry, Exactly what items are you referring to when you say visible deck bulwark stanchions? Are you asking about turned rail stanchions which support the guardrail that surrounds the poop deck?

deer @hof00 Harry, I found those dimensions listed for Donald McKay's final medium clipper Glory of the Seas. This page from Jan-Feb Seaways Ships of Scale describes frame sizes and the spacing between them. Attached too is the 'tween deck photo described to you earlier. I hope this is the information you were looking for. I realize this isn't specific to Flying Cloud but it's the same clipper ship designer and it's logical to think such components were kept similar for basic construction. "The floor timbers are sided 15 inches and moulded 20 inches on the keel with 28 inches space-of frames from center to center, and as the frames ascend, they vary from 12 inches by 14 inches to 8 inches by 11 inches, and the bulwark stanchions at the plank-sheer are sided 11 inches and moulded 8 inches."

@hof00 Harry, There are no known photos of Flying Cloud. I couldn't find any specific dimensions for her bulwarks either. However, Michael Mjelde's first book Glory of the Seas includes a Duncan McLean, Boston Daily Atlas article in an appendix. Very specific dimensions of her bulwark stanchions, varying width, depth and distance between each are included. We shared it in the Glory of the Seas build log by @rwiederrich When we get a chance, either Rob or I will share those specifics here. In addition, there's a photo of the ship's 'tween decks. Inside her outer skin (bulkheads) are fascinating criss-cross structural reinforcements. Dead center of the X formed are additional horizontal stringers which run the entire length of the ship. Essentially this creates an engineering six-point latticework to strengthen the entire vessel. No such description of these structural members being installed in Flying Cloud exists. However, due to her great length (she was the world's largest merchant vessel at her launch) it makes total sense that these would have been included. Again, it reminds me of the fact that McKay jealously guarded his nautical secrets. When I get a chance, I'll share it too with you.

@rwiederrich Rob, Knowing how challenging it was for you to replicate those naval hoods for your Glory of the Seas model, it might just be others hadn't figured out exactly how the McKay shipyard manufactured them. Think about the complex twisting curvatures involved. It would take some engineering precision to accomplish that. Most likely other contemporary ship builders either didn't see the advantage to this inventive nautical design or they couldn't figure out how to construct it. I know this for a fact, I have never seen anything like it on any other ship and I have perused literally 100s of rare clipper ship photos. Clearly Donald McKay himself jealously guarded this feature, as an ultra rare sketch of his Australian Black Ball clipper Lightning sketched in his own hand has a mysterious 10 foot blank space at the bow right were the cutwater and those hoods would normally appear! Ironically, this American Heritage Junior Library book "Clipper Ships and Captains, pages: 114-115 is the only source where I discovered this document. Meanwhile, look how much difficulty we've had in convincing others that these peculiar nautical devices existed. Even Scott Bradner of SOBCO.com website devoted in-depth to Flying Cloud has completely missed the significance of this unique bow structure. Simply amazing.

@hof00 Harry, Should you be able to accurately include to scale the unique McKay bow, including curving cutwater and those fascinating naval hoods (really an extension of the prow itself) yours will be the first accurate replica of Flying Cloud ever!

@rwiederrich Rob, Did you ever think that probably one of the most significant developments of our 2 year investigation into McKay's final clipper ship would be rediscovery of his 174 year old secret bow design? It turns out Glory of the Seas is a genuine "Rosetta Stone" finally unveiling McKay's obsessively guarded secrets. It must have been quite a reinforcement to the aggressive bows on his vessels and quite possibly contributed to even better sailing performance. Fashioning those convoluted naval hood structures might also have been a guarded secret too. I cover this development in the second article, which I finally intend to complete this Fall.