ClipperFan
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@gak1965 thanks for sharing these wonderful pictures. The large Flying Cloud model is beautiful and impressive. If you have any more pics, I'd love to see them. Of course, just like every other McKay replica, no matter how well crafted, the bow is completely wrong. She's missing her distinctive naval hoods and cutwater and just like all other Flying Fish models (which admittedly is a pet-peeve of mine) the figurehead is tacked on, almost as an afterthought... Here, based on Duncan McLean's actual description of her at launch, is what her prow should actually look like.
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@gak1965 thanks for sharing these wonderful pictures. The large Flying Cloud model is beautiful and impressive. If you have any more pics, I'd love to see them.
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Bradley, Jared, who's also building Flying Fish is the reason I'm sharing more info on how to avoid the issues he's run into. When it comes to making the solid tops, your MSW plans are wrong. In two significan ways. The lubber's hole on real ships is much larger and longer, whereas the ones on your plans are way too small. Trestletrees blend neatly with the curved front of the solid top, instead of projecting out awkwardly like the plan Jared shares. Here's photographic proof from 3 vessels: clipper ship Glory of the Seas, Whaler Charles W Morgan, Frigate USS Constitution "Old Ironsides." Last 2 pics are what not to do, from Jared's post. I've already shared these images with him to hopefully get him straightened out. ironically, properly recreating this section will make it easier to rig your shrouds too. You're doing a remarkable job. It's never my intent to criticize anyone's work. I'm just doing my best to provide historically accurate information to aid in your recreations.
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@campbewj your painted and coppered Flying Fish hull looks beautiful. Since it's been well over a year from your last update, I hope all is well with you and your family. Jared who's also well on his way to finishing his clipper just ran into an issue with his solid tops. My hope is to share accurate info with you so that you can avoid Jared's problem. The MSW plans for solid tops have 2 errors. First, the crosstrees intersect the lubber's hole, creating 4 small rectangles, which isn't right. Reviewing 3 actual ships reveals that there's a long, uninterrupted lubber's hole. Second, according to Jared's "Mastini" plan, the trestletree projects awkwardly beyond the semi-circular top above. However, the foremast on Glory of the Seas shows that the trestletrees below blend in harmoniously with the solid top above. Images are 3 of Glory of the Seas , 2 of USS Constitution "Old Ironsides" a single shot of the Whaler Charles W Morgan and finally 2 of Jared's incorrect plans. Having this accurate info should allow you to rig shrouds easier too.
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Wawona59 remember this when you get to building your solid tops. This is an area where the MSW Flying Fish plans are wrong. This has caused issues for other modelers which I hope to help you avoid. The first 3 pics are of the foremast top from Glory of the Seas, courtesy of 3 time author Michael Mjelde. The 4th is directly below the solid top of the Whaler Charles W Morgan, 5th and 6th are of the Frigate USS Constitution "Old Ironsides." Finally, the last 2 show how another modeler Jared, is right now documenting his problems following wrong advice! All actual vessels show a large, unobstructed lubbers hole which covers the entire inner solid top on the merchant vessels and most of it on the military one. Meanwhile, the inacurrate FF Mastini plans show crosstrees bisecting the lubber hole which doesn't match any pics of the real ships. The clipper ship's trestle trees blend in harmoniously with her solid tops above and does not project awkwardly in front like the plans incorrectly show. In this case, accurately reproducing these features will make it easier to rig shrouds too.
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@Rick310 additional images of solid tops. First two are of "Old Ironsides" and the last is of the Whaler. That's three ships which have substanttial lubber holes, enough for all shrouds to easily be rigged through while leaving sufficient room for crew to climb through. I realize you haven't proceeded to this point in your build but my hope is this guides you in the right direction when you do.
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@Rick310 Jumping ahead to the solid tops on clipper Flying Fish. I hope to save you from repeating the same mistake that other modelers have struggled with. Again, I will refer to the priceless, authentic rare Glory of the Seas images that author Michael Mjelde has shared with us from his sixty-plus years collection. However, this time there are contemporary images as well that support this structural accuracy. Here's photographic evidence on how to precisely build your tops. You definitely want to disregard any plans that look like the last "Mastini" illustration which is wrong. Two major errors in the "Mastini" plan: lubber holes are bisected by crosstree structural members and the trestle tree juts beyond the semi-circular top which rests above them. Glory of the Seas is proof that the trestle tree blends harmoniously with the solid top above and the generous lubber hole extends uninterrupted, clear across the entire solid top. It's hard to see but the close up seems to show a part of the crosstree cut off to form the lubber hole. Next I'll share images of "Old Ironsides" USS Constitution fighting top as well as the Whaler Charles W Morgan which has a similar solid top.
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Jared, I have good news and bad news. Good news is that I have more definitive proof to thoroughly and accurately recreate a McKay top. The bad news is it means you would have to rework your tops one last time. Here's the low down. The "Mastini" top illustration is wrong, at least for a McKay clipper. The actual foretop on Glory of the Seas shows that the trestle tree blends in neatly with the semi-circular top, it does not jut out awkwardly like the "Mastini" sketch incorrectly shows. In addition, on the real ship, crosstrees are cut out to create a very generous "lubber's hole" which goes clear across the inside of the top. As opposed to the interrupted little squares as drawn in the "Mastini" sketch. That too is wrong. Besides Glory of the Seas and USS Constitution the Whaler Charles W Morgan also share these very similar strucural features. Getting this right has been an ongoing challenge to Rob Wiederrich, Vladimir who both had to revise their tops, yourself and possibly others who are now building Flying Fish. This should be the definitive answer. It also should make it a lot easier to rig this area too.
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No problem, I'm just let down that you weren't involved in the construction of the actual ship. As for mounting irons for a ringtail, it's quite possible there were later modifactions to add them. That's what we saw with Glory of the Seas. She had extensive modifications during her long lifetime.
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@gak1965 fascinating that you were in on the building of Pride of Baltimore II. The picture appears to show the top of the ringtail has its own spar which is rigged to the spanker sail. The base looks like there's a short spar rigged to the spanker boom and another thinner one rigged to the sail. Interestingly enough, my choice of this particular ship was random, just because it had such a nice clear picture of a ringtail.
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Jared, While I appreciate compliments as much as the next guy, author Michael Mjeled is our real source for wealth of knowledge on McKay clipper ships. He's gathered a treasure trove of pics over 60 years of research. To see a lot more rare images, got to Rob Wiederrich's scratch built 1:96 scale Glory of the Seas log.
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Jared, It seems like these kits were made with a myriad of little mistakes. To be generous, the manufacturers didn't have access to these historically accurate photos that Michael Mjelde has so generously shared with Rob's group. Items like the uniquely different McKay bow, highly ornately carved bulkheads, the rear coach house which conforms to the rear hull and even solid tops with generous lubber holes have all now been proven with irrefutable photographic evidence. In the case of lubber holes, it will definitely make your life easier to have much larger ones to rig through. It's never my goal to critique the amazing creative talents of you or any of your fellow model ship builders. What you guys build from scratch is simply amazing. But I do try to contribute the most accurate information to assist in recreating the most historically accurate replicas.
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George, Here's a first hand account of "setting the ringtail" on the replica topsail schooner Pride of Baltimore II by the captain of the vessel. I thought you might enjoy reading how the actual practice is done. My apologies for multiple repeat images. I'll get it down to one if I can figure out how to do that.... https://pride2.org/captains-log-setting-the-ringtail/it.
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Jared, Here are two historic pictures of Donald McKay's final medium clipper Glory of the Seas. She's in her last dry dock, according to as Michael Mjelde, author of 3 books on her. Ongoing, since 2021, Michael has been generously sharing these rare images, a result of his six decades of research into this specific ship. Looking at her lubber holes, you'll see the ones on the real vessel are much wider and longer than portrayed on Flying Fish plans. It makes sense when you think about the fact that all thick shrouds pass through this opening while still leaving enough room for climbing sailors to get through too. The last two images are of the fighting top on USS Constitution "Old Ironsides." Here you can see the crossbrace that would normally be there is omitted to accomodate the large lubberhole. I've read in more than one article that McKay's clippers featured solid tops similar to those found on men-o-war. So comparing these two ships gives a much clearer idea of how this area actually was constructed.
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George, Illustrated London Times, 22 September 1866 "The Great Tea Race from China to London, the Taeping and Ariel off the Lizard" actually shows the use of both water sails by each racing tea clipper (the ones beneath the lowest studding sail boom) and even a jaime green sail (the trapezoidal sail rigged beneath the Taeping's bowsprit). The only one not illustrated, which you asked about is a ring tail, which is an outrigger sail to the spanker. FYI: I really like your "to do list" and how you cross off each task as you complete it.
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Vladimir, From what you wrote, it sounds like you've had your fill of the tedious process of rigging. At least for a while. You may find a smaller, less complicated vessel more to your liking, as a refreshing change of pace. An neat little, single masted vessel which presents an intriguing look is the 1700s Colonial Sloop Ferret. It's an inexpensive kit available as a solid hull model from Scientific. The kit itself has a rudimentary plan but more accurate ship's lines are available in Howard Chappelle's "The Search For Speed Under Sail." You made an incredible contribution to our concerted efforts to reconstruct Donald McKay's last clipper Glory of the Seas. Our progress would have been much slower but for your clever bulkhead creation. I've already begun revising my second article to show the progress you made on your beautiful replica. Maybe it will lift your spirits.
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Vladimir, Congratulations on your amazing accomplishment! As soon as I saw the starboard broadside images of your massive Glory of the Seas replica, it reminded me of this famous 1869 fitting out scene of the actual McKay herself vessel in East Boston. In fact, since your replica is so large, there's even a bit of photographic distortion in your vessel's picture too. Since my family's been so plagued with back to back stressful accidents, I haven't had time to look in on your progress for a long time. As a result, I had no clue you were so much further along in your own progress. I was originally thinking I might have to wait to include your model in my second NRJ article but now that I've seen these images, you're much closer to finishing than I first thought. So now I will include your work with Rob's and will send you progress updates to keep you informed.
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http://www.bruzelius.info/Nautica/News/BDA/BDA(1851-11-04).html Rick310, This may seem redundant but have you read the description of Flying Fish in Lars Bruzelius' website? Included in this highly descriptive publication, there's a list of precise specs on all masts, yardarms and even the bowsprit for McKay's clipper Flying Fish. In other article, the publicist Donald McLean refers to getting these quite accurate specifics from the shipyards themselves. Therefore, I would feel very confident in relying on the dimensions provided by this highly detailed Boston Daily Atlas, Nov 4th, 1851 article.
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Hi Jared, It's been a long time since I've been able to look in on your impressive build. You're doing beautiful work. As I've been working on an article describing the rigging of Glory of the Seas, I've gained an appreciation of Rob Wiederrich's systemic and consistent rigginng approach. I encourage you to review his build post and ask him for any input you might like. Meanwhile, I've attached an image of the lubber holes of Glory, which are longer and larger than we first suspected. It will make shroud rigging easier too.
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Luis, This stunning painting of "Clipper ship Sir Lancelot passing South Foreland" by Dutch Maritime Artist, Maarten Platje won the Dereck Gardner Award in 2018 at the 73rd Annual Exhibition of the Royal Society of Marine Artists. Here's a detailed description of this beautiful work: "The Clippership Sir Lancelot passes Dover Strait on an outbound voyage. The westerly breeze blows from the west and makes the vessel roll. The crew is making sail and the ship is gaining speed. The White Cliffs of Dover can be seen in the distance, with the lighthouse of South Foreland as a landmark at the right."
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Hi Rob, I'm glad you enjoyed those. I really hope Luis liked them too. He's doing a hell of a job on one of the most beautiful Scottish tea clippers. I must be having more email issues again. I haven't seen communications from either Mike or you in a while now. I'm deep into writing the second Glory of the Seas article draft which is already even longer than the first because there's just so many details to cover to do the topic full justice. I'll send you a pm with my wife's email address to reopen communications. We just returned from a second hotel stay for 3 days while asbestos was removed from our kitchen. Now we have to move the stuff out of our son's bedroom, back to the kitchen, so that both rooms can have new floors installed. Meanwhile July 1st my son and I were t-boned by a guy who was speeding, made an illegal right pass, violated a right turn only signal, ran a red-light and smashed into us. Fortunately, other than scrapes and bruises, we're both fine. We'll probably seek therapy though, per the advice of an attorney. Meanwhile, my ultra-rare 1997 Cougar XR-7 30th Anniversary Edition in mint-condition which took 4 years to find, and I just registered March 20th is in real serious shape. Our family keeps asking "What hall of mirrors did we shatter?" Meanwhile, I want to return this thread to Luis Felipe and his impressive build.
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Luis, This series of images are all from a 1-96th scale scratch-built model of the tea clipper Sir Lancelot in the Royal Museum, Greenwich, England. Here's how this lovely vessel built by I.W. Marsh is described: "Sir Lancelot (1865); Cargo vessel; Ship; Tea Clipper Scale: 1:96. A highly detailed exhibition full hull model of the composite ship 'Sir Lancelot' (1865). The hull of the model is copper sheathed and fully rigged with the yards braced round, the whole of which is mounted in its original glazed case. The 'Sir Lancelot' was built by R. Steele of Greenock, Scotland, and launched in 1865. Measuring 197 feet in length by 33 feet in the beam, the composite construction of wooden planking on iron frames was ideally suited for the punishing voyages she encountered whilst employed on the China tea trade. On its second trip in 1866, it was dismasted off Ushant and a year later, was converted to a barque rig. After 1883 the 'Sir Lancelot' traded mainly between Bombay, Calcutta and Port Louis. In 1885 it was lost in a cyclone off Sand Heads at the mouth of the River Hooghly while on passage from the Red Sea to Calcutta with a cargo of salt."
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Luis, This series of images are all of Donald McNarry's breathtaking scratch-built scale tea clipper Sir Lancelot waterline miniature. This was originally on display at the American Marine Model Gallery, Salem, Massachusetts. What I found interesting is that his tiny figurehead is painted identically to the one in the Cutty Sark Museum. She also sports beautiful mint green bulkheads instead of the more prevalent white. McNarry is famous for his meticulous research on the vessels he builds. I find your version of tea clipper Sir Lancelot is every bit as impressive as Donald McNarry's, which is well deserved!
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Luis, I found a couple historic photos of your subject model. The National Maritime Museum of South Australia has an amazing treasure-trove of literally dozens of these beautiful clipper ships. First pic is of Sir Lancelot in Shanghai in 1867 when she was just two years old. The other is years later in her career when she had her mizzen re-rigged as bark. What's notable is that her hull, fore and mainmast all look identical in both scenes. A tribute to her solid construction. Interestingly, her original Camelot Knight figurehead now resides beneath the 1869 tea clipper Cutty Sark Museum, Greenwich, England. His right arm originally held an uplifted sword while it seems like his left grips a shield, probably embossed with an English lion. Technically the figurehead is a bust, since his waist ends wrapped in a red garment. Contrary to Cutty Sark's pure white Witch 'Nannie' the Sir Lancelot figurehead is all natural, painted in brilliant colors. The Knight himself has dazzling blue eyes and sports a Fu-Manchu moustache reminiscent of a character from a Gilbert & Sullivan play.
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Luis, I hope you don't mind, but since I'm somewhat familiar with this artist's work, it occurred to me that this particular image is washed out. I found a more colorful version and share it here. The full title of this work is: "Sir Lancelot downstream on the Thames" by French artist Roger Chapelet. You're doing an impressive job on a famously lovely tea clipper.
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