Cpt_Haddock

Hi Trevor, the old model has been in my mind. I have not seen it in Stockholm though, only the Wasa ship. I have curved the top of the rudder now. I have not decided were to place tiller and length. I read about the use of whip-staff or not on big ships and Wasa as not being used for very long as it sank (maybe it is not such a great representative), I read that Lavery in this latest book I read was open for alternative ways (as McKay). I find it somehow crazy to have a single person without watching the sails only depending on shouts from above during a battle or bad weather. In Wasa the helmsman could see out through the upper part of the deck and Lavery writes about companions as can be seen in the animated video link in previous post. I am sort of done with the structure or the stern and finally working my way forward with making new frames. Things I am thinking about: Bonaventure mast or not, elongated quarter deck (main mast not on mid deck), protection over upper deck or not. Tiller length.

Found the Brian Lavery book (in the library) Arming and fitting of English war ships 1600-1815 and found out my rudder is a bit off for a early 1600 type of rudder. I was planning having the tiller not passing the hull but to be enclosed and have the rudder passing the hull vertically. I have now cut off a bit off the stern post and try making the rudder like the picture in his book. Made the "hinges" for the rudder of copper sheet. Put them in vinegar bath to age them a bit.

Keep struggling with the stern post transoms and above. Started with the rudder construction. Did see these amazing animations by Animagraffs on YouTube of the ships anatomy. Highly Recommended!

Looking back a year - never thought it would get so slow with this build. But anyhow, the last frame bending is done and I miss the every-day procedure of making frame part. Not every frame is completed with but the process of steam bending is done. I have started with the aft part and it is a bit tricky. I have not glued anything yet and have used a mix of lime and walnut on the transoms. I will fix a block of wood in the lowest part and build upwards to create the stern. Before this I have drawn the ship from the side on a big paper - I realized I needed a clear blueprint with measurements and some thinking forward.

I have made some of the floor pieces for the space between the frames. Though I have the fixture it is getting lots of frames and a bit wiggle - like a house of cards. I am trying not to fix any frames because of I have to do some about the finish touch frame by frame. I have decided to stop making floors and do the aft frames.

Thanks for the informative input on the ships building battle, does anyone have an idea what to build from the the keel and frames I have from the kit? I will not use them since this build is more like a scratch-type of build as I come along. I have got much info from this build: https://www.alexshipmodels.com/2023/04/18/la-salamandre-gallery/ Adding frames, getting the hang of the process but still not yet halfway. The frames in the middle of the ship is quite uniform.

Until now I have built the frames in half and put a bit of wood above the keel part of the frame to thickness it. Now on from frame "5" and so I will try build the whole frame in one go. I don have to saw cut the piece in the middle.

I had to fix the beakhead part to force the keel from bending upward. I am not sure how to make the keelson fit on top of the frames. Using linden wood for frames and walnut for other parts.

Some progress. I have some frames to build. I have now 5 frames and slowly working my way aft.

Long break but another go on this. Kelson done and trying out my new idea of bending wood.

Hello, going slow now but keel is done and lodging knee on its way.

Update: I have found two more replica canons on auction. So now I need some advice what to do. Add more deck or something else?

slow progress but some new pictures from work on the keel and deadwood. I have made an rig around the keel for the frames.

Here is where I found some of the pictures: https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/4187-danish-flagships-form-the-17th-mega-mix/ looks like a scanned book picture

I have search so many 1700th ship pictures so I have forgotten were that came from, the other is from: https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O1020070/hull-of-a-three-decker-drawing-van-de-velde/ - you can zoom in and see details. Ran in to some problems with the framing. I was planning to use the Sergal kit frame 4-1 as is, but the difference Fincham (I use a Mr Douglas drawing from 1901), McKay and Sergal is to big. The kit is more wedge-shape than the other:

P.S. I read in some book about the Sovereign of the Seas that they did not use hammocks in 1628, it was used later on.

Here is a van Velde drawing of the Danish ship, a quick glance and it looks like the SotS. The fore castle is slightly lower and lower gun deck flat as SotS after the rebuild 1659-60.

Some notes from the Book from James Septhon and Sergals kit: I will try to keep the gun ports as J.S. and compared to Sergal (S) i.e. 9,9mm/10,6mm/11.3mm for 2'-4", 2'-6" and 2'-8" for each deck - S has the same size for all decks. I think it will be worth the extra work for this in the end. The keel was tapered and the rudder the other way around - I do not think I will bother with tapering at all. J.S has ports for all decks and three ports for the beakhead bulkhead (not shown in McKay) - I had some trouble getting the aft but after looking at the Culver model I think I got a solution. the three decks is divided in equal parts (33%). I think I have a solution for the aft but still no design for the galleries. I found the Danish ship Sophia Amalia 1650 that is really a look a like built by a English James Robbins and a drawing from Van Velde show similar decoration along the sides as SotS (not quite as the museum model in the picture).

I have modified the scale to 1:72 - I think it will be better. Recommend naval ship construction texts via Academia.edu, for example:

Totally agree - very hard to even come close to that amount of work and artistry. That is a bit why I will try to do a little different approach. When to movie for "the hitchhiker guide to the galaxy" by Douglas Adams come there was many discussions about the "real" story and so on. The real story from the books - but the story in the books came from a mix of radio-episodes that did not add up to that was printed - I feel a bit like that after reading about this ship. Building Wasa was so different - the ship is there to visit. For example - I am thinking of azur blue instead of Stockholm tar black and maybe modify the statues of Neptune/Apollo and the other "god of winds" figure - and make Diana/Nike bigger - I will see. I have decided the angle of the stern post the rake: I am trying to get the shape of the aft, I had to cut of the kit stern post - it was not straight

More things: I found some interesting reading and evidence of a ship rebuild in 1660 from square to round (Niklas Eriksson), and that the Prince was rebuild this way just before SotS was created. It is interesting with all these variants: Round stern like Naseby half circular Square stern dutch type (like Wasa) McKay arrow like stern (as Royal Louis 1668) Some have this almost elliptical stern or square with rounded edges and Sergals oval tube shaped stern with different versions of the lower part ... and this also influence on the lower gun ports and that they sometimes is way below the gun deck

One step forward and two steps back. Now I have read the Septhon book and I must say it is stuck with information but as a builder I am still confused but on a higher level. I have come to the conclusion that the Sergel kit is not that bad after all - things considered. And I admire and thank McKay for all the illustrations - you can say that Septhon had very few of that kind - though nice photos and collections of drawings. Sometimes a picture says more than words. And searching internet I normally end up here on this forum - (the forum in some slavic language have lots of information but beyond my skills). I am working with altering the stern from extreme frame and aft. I try to use the Fincham drawings to re-shape the kit to a round-tuck one. I have even tried to use mashed potatoes to shape the stern but .. well I had to try. I did not work - surprise - so I now use plates of plastic foam and metal wires. Things I wondering about: The decks - why this steps in McKay? The deck lines were made flatter somewhere down the line (maybe 1660). But many models have this step in gun deck aft as the Prince in some picture. The Wasa had guns below gun deck aft and I have decided to skip this lower part i.e. guns with Square formed ports. I will try to have old-fashion curved decks - flush decks. The Sergal kit has only these lowest four and not the round shaped above - compare with all three deck ports in Culvers model.

Added a picture of trying compass wood for stem. I used damp bending instead: Picture of Einarssons "Regalskeppet Kronan" book and a first frame part:

Hello! Yet another book, I was pretty mislead by the book by Konstams "Sovereigns of the Sea". I though like the book and it opened my eyes concerning war ships and 1600-1700th century Europe. I have now finally got Septhons "Sovereign of the Seas" - it looks nice! I have not come to any conclusion more than "bashing". I will read a little more and try to figure out how to proceed and still enjoy building some ship in the end. So member Ulises Victoria gave up.. I understand the feeling. I have put the green box somewhere I cannot see it and focus on bending wooden strips in the spare part of the kit. More about that later. I do get energy from reading about the 1700th century history that SotS and all this has opened up for me. I have found a interesting PhD thesis from Southampton University by Juan-Pablo Olaberria "Ship design-knowledge in early modern Europe: Royal yachts and the shared knowledge of ship-designers and common shipwrights." from 2018 that I found on-line. In the PhD text there is the description of building frame-first vs Shell-first. Shell-first was adding timber inside after the planking was "done" - frame-first was adding planking on frames as most (?) model boat kits, i guess. Has anyone build a shell-first model? The design was back then not scientific and the picture depicts a hull from the shape of a fish. I read the book about Kronan 1668 by Einarsson but I did not get any new technical info, (I did get a picture of a Penis from deceased crew member buried in the mud 1672 when the ship was blown up by Danes). Thanks Einarsson... I have to go to Kalmar and see at the museum - try to get more info on-site. Maybe not now, -12 C outside today. SotS: I am thinking of adding a mizzen as on Prince (Bonaventura). Raising the ship and moving the halfdeck Using the frame-holes to bend wood and build a "skeleton" type of framing. Use the kit frames to build the Kronan. The Kronan was more narrow but I do not get the scaling of Sergals model. 16m outside width? I have seen 14.6m. Keel length 43m? 127" is some 38m. Round tuck on both ships. the bow sprit in Sergal is longer than most other, and the stern is very steep: I have bend the stem and apron and started on the frames: I used some old plastic bin to lead steam in a isolated tube with wooden strips inside to get damp effect.

I have bought two new books: I have an idea of - in contrast to md1400cs - maybe build two boats from one kit. The idea is to build some sort of scratch build using the kit-frames to bend planks (SotS) and modify the kit discs to build the Swedish Kronan. I have seen many amazing version of SotS, and shipwright (Bill Short) carvings - wow! Doris: https://www.modelforum.cz/viewtopic.php?f=177&t=43575&hilit=1637&sid=2d00756880ad630cc97c5745201fb29f&start=930 Wolfgang Rotter: https://schifferlbauer.com/seite40.html .