Jump to content
New Publication - Ship Modeler's Handbook - A new batch is on it's way. We will continue to take orders and fill them as soon as they come in. Thank you for your patience. ×

John Clements

Members
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    73

  • Joined

  • Last visited

 Content Type 

Everything posted by John Clements

  1. John Clements
    Those figures look really good and the whole scheme has a brightness and clarity with the colours you have used which looks far better than the overall red or blue finish. And that painting you found is a real gift and quite a challenge to replicate in the scale of the model sculpture. Really looking forward to seeing the end result on the stern panel.
  2. John Clements
    You've made a great job on those figures, making a great success where I quailed at the thought of what needed doing and, as you've seen, ended up with them supporting the brackets rather than the actual balcony. They are amongst the smallest parts in the kit, bar the blocks and pulleys, and nicely moulded so very much worth keeping.
  3. John Clements
    Hi Marc. Those blocks give a much better joint with the hull than the Heller offering and a better shape to the whole structure. My own guess about how it was built would be for the planking option, which would be lighter and simpler, I think, and would match the rest of the construction. I'm not sure where they would have sourced a piece of lightweight timber of such a size. The book sounds very interesting and right up my street as a Baroque enthusiast. I'll be having a look this weekend. This coming Monday shops are open again so I'll be able to pop down to my local art shop and buy all those bits and pieces I couldn't be bothered to order on-line.
  4. John Clements
    Well, here is my cheapskate solution to the surplus lower gallery supplied by Heller, which I think doesn't look too bad. It's basically bending, cutting and filling the original piece, after removing the floor, so that it sits flush against the stern. I didn't want to waste the four supporting figures (despite not being able to find any evidence that there would have been any sculpted figures in that position) but luckily they fit against four of the brackets under the next gallery. Again, one of the pleasures of this vessel is being able to - within reason - make up your own mind about detail. My real reservation is with the false windows along the side. I made them rectangular to match the upper window in the Heller moulding, but they really don't look right. On the other hand, the stern window pattern looks too small, so some sort of compromise is needed. As I've now got probably quite a long pause whilst fitting up the visible guns and their tackle, I'll have some time to think about it.
  5. John Clements
    Great to catch up and see how you are getting with those quarter galleries which is so problematic and incorrect in the kit. I echo everyone else's appreciation of your attention to detail and historical probability, and the workmanship that lies behind it all. Being in the midst of my own struggles in this area, I can only say that one strives towards something satisfactory for one's own level of skill, whilst being lost in admiration for your craftmanship. Even though I am attempting something much less complicated and original, it is really useful seeing how you are approaching the problems and resolving them.
  6. John Clements
    Sorry to be so late with my reply to your question, Christian, and to post my latest update, but my PC has been under repair and only just now restored to working order, though I will have to replace it soon. The reason I chose to paint the main gun deck bulwarks in red ochre rather than vermilion was really aesthetic, rather than trying to be truly authentic. I thought to paint all the area vermilion would look too bright. I was also conscious of the view that vermilion was an expensive shade, and so it proved to be even now. The cadmium red I am using (and I know that cadmium was not available to the 17th century artist but it is the nearest shade to vermilion in the range I am using) is far and away the most expensive tube of acrylic paint I have bought for this project. So this is where I am up to now: As you see, I have made some modifications to the quarter galleries; opening out the main gallery and putting false windows in the lower part, and blocking up the (I think) quite erroneous gunport. There is still some tidying up to be done and a bit of new moulding to be made and painted to hide some of the awkward joins. I hope you like the painted main sculpture. I think it works well but it's a pity that Heller couldn't have thought to mould in some reins, which it is obvious Apollo is holding in those outstretched hands and which would accord with Baroque paintings of that scene. After all, they are horses and how else do you control them? I did think of painting them in but in that scale it would be quite difficult painting them on freehand. I did add a bit of shading to bring out the relief. I've just got to the end of making up the 48 gun carriages from HisModel, so my next job is to paint them, add the barrels and make tackles for the visible ones. I think the next step on the stern will be to fit the main sternwalk so that I can see how the four supporting figures can be attached to the cut-down piece which was the lower gallery, but which will now fit flush up against the stern below the lowest set of windows. So much to think about with this kit! e
  7. John Clements
    Thanks, Michael. I appreciate your comments. At that size (and price) one really would expect Heller to have done a better job if this was to be their top French sailing navy offering but it does mean we can all use our imagination a bit, and it's really nice to see all the different versions on this site. Putting her afloat is certainly an option but I'm put off by the sheer size of it. We will see.
  8. John Clements
    Can I put in my ha'porth? Marc is right about the copper oxide blues, and there was indigo too. Both could be lightened by mixing with lighter colours, as is evident from skies in paintings. And can I also add that cerulean blue is similar to the drum in the picture I posted earlier, French blue is the colour of the drummer's coat and Prussian blue (only invented in 1706 as Christian said) is noticeably darker again. Any reputable colour chart will show that. What I think is more important, though, is how can we be sure that the artist chose the exact colour (assuming that they saw the same ship), or that the document has not faded or the colour metamorphosed with time and the degradation of its chemical elements? And as I think Christian infers, as the processes of dying cloth and painting solid surfaces are quite different, can we make assumptions from one to the other and use common terminology? This is all such a minefield!
  9. John Clements
    The cerulean blue, which is quite close in shade to the blue plastic used by Heller, is one of the Bourbon house colours as in the drum in the picture below (best I could find in a hurry). It was extensively also used as the background in the triple fleur-de-lys coat of arms used by the Bourbons which appears on ships and on military flags, so I think it is a very suitable colour to use.
  10. John Clements
    It is really fascinating watching and reading about how you are working your way through all the potential designs and deciding what to do. Your patience and workmanship are an example to us all, and certainly far beyond the time and effort I am willing and able to put in to my own project (not least because I am also building a Heller Scharnhorst - another model that requires a lot of research and extra work to get right, and one or two other non-maritime models). As I mentioned before, I am sticking mainly with the kit's parts and adjusting those. It was interesting to see the much more three-dimensional carving on the stern of the Paris model but trying to emulate that is quite beyond me. What a shame Heller seem to have thought so too. Did you say earlier that you might be thinking of painting the sun chariot panel in full colour, rather than just gilt? That would be quite a departure but very striking. Interesting too to see how you have tackled the cannon. I can identify with your frustration at losing barrels; I had to buy several extra barrels to replace ones I pushed into the lower decks of the Glorieux. I am just hoping that I've lathered enough glue over the SR carriages that they stay in place. Like Christian, I have drilled the holes for the port lid ropes and glued the ropes on the inside so they don't disappear too until the lids are fixed on at the end. Still waiting for my guns and tackle bits to arrive from HisModel; I think Brexit is causing us Europeans a lot of headaches, not least that I might end up paying tax on the purchase twice over. Looking forward to the continuation of your amazing project.
  11. John Clements
    Latest progress. As you see from the pictures, I have extended the fleur design to fill all the available space, except for two larger areas where I have inserted a sun design, the same sun with a face in the middle that appears on French cavalry flags of the Bourbon era. As you commented, Marc, there is not a lot of room to do much else. I also extended the looped L design to the stern as I plan that area will be visible at the back of the single gallery I intend to mount. I've cut all the panels out of the Heller quarter galleries - the designs they have used don't seem to fit anything very authentic anyway - and will fill the lower level with false windows, and have cut the floor out of the lower stern gallery so it will fit flush up against the stern bulkhead with a bit of adjustment and filling. I have some more detail to do on the hull itself and I'm waiting an order for the cannon, and the blocks, hooks and eyebolts for their tackle, to fit on the main deck before going further. Now that the sides are in place, I've realised what an ugly tub this ship actually is! It might look spectacular when done, but compared to the beautiful lines of Le Glorieux..................well, maybe without the masts the hull looks out of proportion but it does show how the design looks back as much as forward, I think.
  12. John Clements
    HI Marc. What a visual feast! A model one could spend a long time really appreciating. I can understand why Kirill asked the question. We've all got used to seeing French ships in blue, and my own switch to red was partly motivated by not using the same scheme as my 74, then confirmed by the St Philippe book. As several have pointed out, the beauty of this ship is that we really can't be sure about the colours, so we can each be happy with what we are able to achieve within our own limits. I just feel very pleased to have found this site and its helpful and skilled members from whom I am learning so much.
  13. John Clements
    Some visible progress at last. I've spent what seems like ages experimenting with different ways of painting motifs in relief. I think the best method I've found so far is to paint the image in a liquid acrylic (thinned Humbrol), add the acrylic paste on top to produce the relief, and then paint over that in the final gold shade (Windsor & Newton Renaissance Gold). I can't pretend the end result is perfect but, given that much of the panel will be behind the shrouds, and most people won't be staring at it from as close up as the picture, I think it is acceptable. What I am puzzling over now is that the layout of the aft side pieces leaves very little space for any larger motifs. I had been toying with adding some of the Bourbon sun images that crop up all over flags and elsewhere, given the name of the ship, but trying to paint the individual rays on an image no more than 10mm across is a bit beyond me. I don't think printing off a template would work because adding the relief medium would cover up the detail, but it might be worth a try. If not, then I guess more rows of fleur-de-lys would not be out of order. Finally, I was amazed by the extent of the mis-match between the fo'c'sle bulkhead and the side pieces. Quite a bit of material will have to be shaved off the edges of the bulkhead to match the profile of the sides. I can't believe that reflects the original and loose-fitting the fo'c'sle deck shows the sides are in the right place, so it's out with the file and the filler. Then, hopefully in a week or two, I'll be able to fit the after sides and start to think about how I deal with the stern structure (and rigging all those guns, of course)
  14. John Clements
    Rather a long gap, pondering changes and also having to order more paint and supplies online as we are now in total lock down and I can't pop down to my local art shop. I have re-worked the upper sides, sanding off a lot of the detail, added a second gun port on the poop deck and replaced the uppermost solid rail with a perforated railing. The pictures below show these, but still incomplete in some details. I'm thinking of leaving the lowest strip (with the Heller 'L' motifs) red ochre, the strip above vermilion with fleur-de-lys, and the rest red ochre with some of the larger motif designs shown on other ships. The current dark red is actually red oxide which I now realise is incorrect for the period, so I'm planning to lighten that somewhat to red ochre. I've ordered some acrylic moulding paste so that I can paint the designs onto the sides in relief. I've never used it before so an interesting experiment.
  15. John Clements
    Thanks very much, Marc. I do appreciate your comments, as your own build is a real inspiration to me. The guns and carriages are from HisModel. The carriages were a bit too high but I cut off the lower half of the wheels which one can't see on the two lower decks. The upper guns and carriages are smaller and should hopefully fit OK. When I built my previous, first, sailing ship, the Glorieux, the rigging was the part in which I found most satisfaction, partly because it was challenging and partly because it was all new to me then, so I was learning how the whole system worked. I'm impatient to get to that stage but it will be quite a while yet.
  16. John Clements
    Thank you, Kirill and Henry, for your advice. I will certainly look closely at the rigging in the St Philippe book. It was the differences there that raised the question. I am aware that many modellers refer to the Anderson book, but this project is not my main Interest and I won't be building another vessel of this period. This is very much a one-off for me and I'm learning a lot from the build logs already here. The fitting you describe, Henry, is what I was expecting but, again, looking at the St Philippe rigging drawing, I can't see any blocks in that area fixed with a strop. There are some that look as if they are fixed to eye bolts driven into the spar, but I need to study the text in more detail to be sure. In any case, rigging is quite a way off yet. I'm now sanding off the moulded detail on the upper parts of the sides to replace it with a pattern more like the St Philippe. Thanks for your interest.
  17. John Clements
    It's been a while since my last post and that's not just because of Christmas. I've realised now that almost every piece of this kit needs careful thought, research and re-working, as has, I guess, everybody else who has attempted it. My latest photo shows the bow platform and cross timber supports which will also hold the rails in place. I haven't gilded the lower part of the cross timbers yet; I'll do that when the rails are in place in case any adjustment is needed. Deciding on the decoration of the bulkhead took a while, but is broadly based on the St Philippe. I can't do tiny carvings so built up the central image with thick acrylic paint and will most probably use the same technique when decorating the bulwarks - the next step, I think. One thing that did puzzle me was the blocks with the ropes set into the bowsprit, as per the instructions. Surely these would have been lashed onto a bolt. The rigging diagram for the St Philippe is different so one wonders where Heller got their rigging details. k.
  18. John Clements
    Here are a couple of pictures of my figurehead just mounted, and the board inserted between the two headrails. I thought I should explain the colour scheme I have chosen, after looking at contemporary paintings of 'the sun and his chariot', and also the standard Bourbon use of colours which I am familiar with from painting military figures. The figure, which is presumably based on the Vary drawing, seems to be dressed in a Greek style tunic and a cloak, the latter of which is usually rendered gold in paintings. I have painted the tunic scarlet, partly because that was the Queen's livery colour and partly because blue might be confused with the Virgin Mary on a female figure. Again, in paintings of the Greek sun god, the horses are invariably a light colour with the mane in contrast. The wreath round the horse's neck is foliage, not jewellery, so painted green. The serpent tail in green is also a common motif. Finally, I replaced the Louis motif in the front-facing shield with the normal Bourbon triple fleur-de-lys, which just made sense to me especially as the moulding was very crude and not really up to scratch. Having said all that, I think it's worth noting that the Heller figurehead is not quite identical to the Vary drawing and the model in Paris does not have a figurehead at all. I don't find the Heller version very convincing but lack the ability to carve a new one. It will at least add a dash of colour. That's taken ages so now I'd really like to get on with building the ship!
  19. John Clements
    Wonderful work as always. I really cannot begin to copy your ability to carve in so small a scale so will be relying more on just the thickness of acrylic paint to give relief where it is too small to model from plastic rod and strip. Thanks for the colour versions of the b & w illustrations from the St Philippe book; far more useful. The large carving on the stern of the first red-painted ship has a Roman rather than Greek look about the main figure, but the double-headed dog on the right could be Cerberus (usually shown with three heads but maybe there wasn't room) who featured in the 12 labours of Heracles. There must be a list of three-decker French ships that might yield a clue. I don't have one to hand unfortunately.
  20. John Clements
    My first attempt at a build log, and only my second sailing ship model, so I hope what I write makes some sense. I've always been a fan of Heller ship kits (I have a collection of their modern French navy ships), so when a friend challenged me to build a sailing ship, one of their's was an obvious choice. That was Le Glorieux, a 74 gun ship in 1/150 scale, which took a couple of years and a lot of new knowledge to complete, using the Boudriot books. Le Soleil Royal seemed the next obvious choice, given my enthusiasm for things French from that era, and J Lemineur's book on the St Philippe a very useful source of information. I soon became aware from looking on the web that this kit is problematic, to say the least, but also that people have made some really beautiful models out of it with some work and imagination, so I decided to make a start and the pictures below show where I am now. I am including some interior detail visible through the stern windows and I am moving to a colour scheme more like that of the St Philippe, so more red ochre and vermilion than French blue. I have just fitted a wooden deck from HisModel which looks a good deal better than the plastic imitation which I sanded off. I have been really inspired by Mark's build log (Hubac's Historian) to make some attempt to improve the kit, but lacking his skills in carving (and his patience!) I will be adapting more of the kit parts than scratch building. As of now, I'm painting the figurehead, so will post again when that is fitted.
  21. John Clements
    Fascinating to see how you are progressing. The new pieces and their painting are exemplars of the art. I'm interested, and pleased, that you are including quite a lot of the red ochre colour, rather than the blanket French blue that appears on the box art. Struck by the St Philippe scheme, I'm intending to attempt something similar, reserving the blue for background to sculptures that were important symbolically, as that was the Bourbon 'house' colour. I've also been looking up paintings in Versailles to get some ideas for the figurehead painting. I think it's important that there was a commonly understood style of representation and symbolism in French Baroque art which would have carried over to ship decoration. Lemineur touches on some of that in his book on the St Philippe. I'm going to start my own build log here, when I can manage some reasonable photos, but it won't be anything as ambitious as yours.
  22. John Clements
    Thanks very much, Marc. Yes, do have a look at HisModel. Radimir is very helpful and knowledgeable. He offers a whole list of items put together for this kit. I'm just about to order the wooden deck. He does a huge range of blocks of all sorts and sizes, deadeye clamps and very useful PE like eyebolts and hooks in useful sizes, so there's really no need to make one's own. John
  23. John Clements
    HI! I found this thread a couple of weeks ago and have worked my way through to the last page at last. It was worth every minute. Like so many others, I am amazed by your attention to detail and dedication to the subject. I had begun my SR project a few months ago. It is only the second sailing ship model I have attempted, having just previously spent two years building Heller's Glorieux using the Boudriot books, after a friend, looking at my collection of WW2 ships, said 'but you haven't got a sailing ship!' (he's a sailor). I bought the St Philippe book as a major help but your project has given me a lot to think about. I'm definitely not up to anywhere near your level, and I've already assembled the kit up to main deck level, but I've been fascinated to see what you've achieved so far and I am used to working in plastic for small details (but not carving yet), so I'm hopeful I can take some of what you've described and copy it. Just a few points - I've thrown away all the kit cannon and am using the barrels and carriages sold by HisModels which I really like (being in the UK, I pretty well buy all my bits and pieces from them); I am putting in some interior detail especially of the officers quarters which are visible through the stern windows but also the ovens like yourself; I was really pleased to see your painted figurehead as I had always believed these were multi-coloured as so many British ones were, and I do really wonder whether the stern main sculpture might have been coloured too. I'm sure a lot more things will come up as you progress and I'll be very interested to see how you tackle all the problems with this project. I hope we get to the end of it before my hand gets too shaky - if I say my shipbuilding career started when Airfix first released HMS Hood, you'll be able to work out I'm no spring chicken! All the very best, John

About us

Modelshipworld - Advancing Ship Modeling through Research

SSL Secured

Your security is important for us so this Website is SSL-Secured

NRG Mailing Address

Nautical Research Guild
237 South Lincoln Street
Westmont IL, 60559-1917

Model Ship World ® and the MSW logo are Registered Trademarks, and belong to the Nautical Research Guild (United States Patent and Trademark Office: No. 6,929,264 & No. 6,929,274, registered Dec. 20, 2022)

Helpful Links

About the NRG

If you enjoy building ship models that are historically accurate as well as beautiful, then The Nautical Research Guild (NRG) is just right for you.

The Guild is a non-profit educational organization whose mission is to “Advance Ship Modeling Through Research”. We provide support to our members in their efforts to raise the quality of their model ships.

The Nautical Research Guild has published our world-renowned quarterly magazine, The Nautical Research Journal, since 1955. The pages of the Journal are full of articles by accomplished ship modelers who show you how they create those exquisite details on their models, and by maritime historians who show you the correct details to build. The Journal is available in both print and digital editions. Go to the NRG web site (www.thenrg.org) to download a complimentary digital copy of the Journal. The NRG also publishes plan sets, books and compilations of back issues of the Journal and the former Ships in Scale and Model Ship Builder magazines.

Our Emblem ®

Modelshipworld - Advancing Ship Modeling through Research

Nautical Research Guild ® and the NRG logo are Registered Trademarks, and belong to the Nautical Research Guild (United States Patent and Trademark Office: No. 6,999,236 & No. 6,999,237, registered March 14, 2023)

×
×
  • Create New...