Eddie
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Eddie reacted to captainbob in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
"I guess wood likes a good massage."
And why not? I like a good massage too.
Bob
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Eddie reacted to Julie Mo in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
It was, Keith, until I learned the "massage" trick on the tightest bend. When I was bending the others, I would push the steamed wood down firmly against the form. I just kept going from one side to the other. And fibers would break. I didn't see it until I pulled my hand away.
When I got to the last frame, there was no way that method would work. So I put the steamed piece in between my fingers and squeezed tightly. Then I gradually began to bend it. When I felt resistance, I could feel that's where the fibers were about to break. So I put it back in the cup of hot water and let it soak some more.
What I found was even though I had boiled the wood and let it soak to the point that the wood sunk to the bottom of the glass, it still wasn't wet through the center. By bending it a bit, I think I exposed the dry wood. In the end, that last piece gave me less resistance than the previous pieces, even though the bend was much sharper.
This morning I removed the top half of the forms.
I was pleasantly surprised to find the sharpest bend turned out the best. I guess wood likes a good massage.
I also made a 6th section of the form so I could add another frame.
I didn't notice the little nib that needs to be removed until I saw this picture.
Now I need to get out the water glass and zap another piece in the micro.
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Eddie reacted to Keith_W in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
Well done! That angle looks like a nightmare to bend.
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Eddie reacted to Julie Mo in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
Thanks, Bob. I really am enjoying this experimental phase. I've always been an experimenter and when things go right, you get a real sense of pride.
I didn't have a chance to work on the lifeboat until late but I at least wanted to get those other two frames bent. I went back to the boil the planks in a glass of water and zap in the microwave method. 3 minutes was enough to make the lesser bend and, coupled with a press form, it made the bend pretty easily.
For the final frame I tried using the same technique but the plank snapped. I cut another and zapped it in the microwave for 3 minutes and let it sit in the hot water another 5 minutes. When I took it out, I pinched the center and began to massage it into a bend. As soon as it felt stiff, I threw it back in the hot water. I did this several times and each time it became more pliable. When it came time to make the form, it complied more easily than any of the others.
I will let them sit overnight and hopefully when I remove the forms I will have a smile on my face.
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Eddie reacted to captainbob in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
Glad you're having fun. That's what it's all about.
Bob
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Eddie reacted to Julie Mo in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
Back in the LABORATORY (like EYE-gor would say...) the experimentation continued with Dr. Frahkunshteen at the helm.
I took some of the smaller 2nd planking and thinned it out to something that would hopefully make it over some serious bends.
I then cut some rough length pieces for the lifeboat frame and placed them in boiling water. That was easier than waiting for the steam box to fire up. The first try wasn't pliable enough so I took the glass of hot water, with the frame cutoffs floating inside, and placed it in the microwave for another 2 minutes. The tannins were bleeding out. Ultimately, the wood sunk to the bottom. Waterlogged...
The tightest bend didn't make it because I cut it too short. But these did
The fibers broke somewhat. They can be easily repaired. But I still have the two tightest bends to conquer. The bow has a complex bend. It may require two pieces, glued side-by-side.
When you are making sharp bends, you need something like spring steel to back up the wood so the fibers don't break. I have that on a larger scale but I'll have to find something much smaller for this job.
I AM having fun in the lab.
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Eddie reacted to Julie Mo in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
Taking Mike's advice, I modified the keel to accept the garboard planks. First attempt was freehand but that was too iffy. So I took out the Dremel work station and set it up for routing a rabbet.
I used that tool with the steel shaft and black bell end to score the line I would rout to.
The depth of the cut was precise but I should have used a fence. The cut is good but there were some "coloring outside the lines" errors.
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Eddie reacted to Julie Mo in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
Thank you, Mike! I see what you mean. And I would have painted myself into a corner had not you alerted me. One of the obvious benefits to taking forever to finish a model is getting advice like this before it's too late.
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Eddie reacted to mikiek in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
Hey Julie - getting a strake or two around the upper part of the hull is a good start. However, I would suggest that you then work from the keel upwards. That first strake at the bottom (the garboard on a big ship) can be a bear to get right and it is much easier to do it while there is space above it rather than it being the last. How the garboard lays will have a dramatic effect on the rest of your planking. You want that strake to lay almost perfectly horizontal. If it starts to curve up at the bow subsequent strakes will curve up even more and you end up having to thin them down a lot at the bow. The garboard usually does not lay as far forward as you might think.
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Eddie reacted to Julie Mo in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
While waiting for the glue pot and hide glue to show up, the lifeboat won over my attention.
The instructions show to just lay the planks on the form and glue them edge-to-edge. No keel or frames. That didn't seem like a good idea so I took some of the planks designed for the 2nd planks on the hull and laminated a keel. Instead of using the same dimensions as the form, I extended the keel out a bit on the bow and took the bow a little out of plumb.
Then I took an X-acto knife and cut a small dovetail section out of the keel and shaped one end of a plank to fit in it. The dovetail holds the plank in place nicely. Much better than nailing the planks to the form as the instructions call for.
The keel scales out to about 4.5" x 4.5". The lifeboat scales out to a little over 13'. I do not know if that keel is the right dimension or not. I'll have to go with what looks good unless someone sets me straight.
FWIW, here's what the instructions called for:
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Eddie reacted to Julie Mo in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
I think I figured out what the drop plank method is
Nothing is glued yet. I've decided to glue the 2nd planking with hot hide glue so I ordered a warmer and glue chips.
I did find the new method much faster and probably the correct way wood planks would be laid on a hull. Thanks, Bill, for pointing that out.
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Eddie reacted to Julie Mo in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
Thanks, Jim. I've seen the videos before. I just wish the camera was was seeing what Chuck was seeing.
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Eddie reacted to mrjimmy in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
Hi, Julie...........
Watch the videos on the attached log that Chuck put together. It explains the planking process very well.
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13850-chucks-planking-videos/page-1
Jim
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Eddie reacted to Julie Mo in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
Thank you, Bill! The tape trick is perfect for what I'm trying to do. But I'm not sure I'm following the drop plank method. Are you saying instead of shaving the next plank to a sliver, to instead cut into the previous plank to accommodate the next plank? With the next plank being no less than 1/2 plank in width.
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Eddie reacted to robnbill in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
Julie, you might try the technique I use for finding the shape of the plank. I first mark off the hull at the frames the space I need between the planks. So if I have X number of planks at the widest part, then I also need the same number at all the other stations. This only would change if I have drop planks. The rule of thumb is a plank should only narrow to ½ it's width. If it would be smaller than that, there needs to be a drop plank.
Once I know where the lines would be, I use clear scotch tape, the kind that you can write on, and tape it directly on the hull over the area I want to plank. I use a very sharp Xacto blade to trip the top of the tape so it lays tight up against the previous plank. Then I mark the tape everywhere it crosses the marks on the hull.
Remove the tape and stick it to the planking material and use a french curve to create a smooth line between the marks and you have an exact template for the plank. Cut the plank out using the template and bend it according to the hull. Perform a final fitting so it lays smoothly along the previously attached planks and you are good to go.
You could modify this to use on your vertical planking if that is what you decide to do.
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Eddie reacted to Julie Mo in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
You're right about it taking time, Bob. The sliver of a plank in the picture below took me about 45 minutes to shape and it still isn't right.
When I cut the plank with a blade, it developed curvature, so to keep the curve I used planes to shape it. That's why it took so long.
My first attempt was to take a wider piece of veneer and shape it to match the profile needed at the stern. It just didn't look right being one solid piece. It has to be plank width to look right. Going in that direction requires a paper-thin taper at one end. I'll need two such mahogany plank tapers on the stern and one on the bow for each side. For the darker wood, I may need more thin tapered planks. I may go with sapele instead of the darker etimoe.
For the upper section of the hull, I have ideas of making the two woods work something like this:
I am not sure if it would be better to cut the long strip out after the diagonals are in place but I'm leaning against that. The point and arrow, I would think, should be cut out of the diagonals.
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Eddie reacted to captainbob in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
Model building is like all other arts in that it is a matter of, "now how do I make it as my mind sees it?" I so enjoy watching you go through this process and Know that what you finish with will be beautiful. Don't rush, it all takes time.
Bob
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Eddie reacted to KeithAug in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
Julie - good luck - its always worth trying and sometimes it works better than expected.
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Eddie reacted to Julie Mo in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
I couldn't resist trying. The idea of the planking identifying all the lines normally found on a sailboat was too appealing to pass on. I had to give it a try.
Where the push pins are more plentiful is where the plank needed the most help. At the stern I steamed the plank to get it to make the bend. It still wanted to pinch and buckle so that's where the push pins on the other side became necessary. None of this is glued.
I'm going to keep at it until it becomes obvious, one way or the other, which way I can proceed.
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Eddie reacted to Julie Mo in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
Fingers crossed I don't disappoint!
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Eddie reacted to Julie Mo in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
Keith, I think adventure is in my blood, even if that often gets me into trouble.
You are right about the wider planking at the stern. Again, something I hadn't seen in my mind's eye. Feel free to open my eyes anytime. As you can see, I need it and often. Thanks again!
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Eddie reacted to Julie Mo in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
Bob,
I am sorry but I missed your kind comments. Thank you.
I am indeed wrestling with how I will make what is in my head translate well into the finished product. I could have just followed the instructions and used the parts the kit supplies but it would never be truly mine. I guess I need to do something unique to walk away satisfied. And what that always brings is challenges, sometimes more than what I had envisioned. Somehow, in the end, I usually figure my way out but often I need help unpainting myself out of the corner.
Thanks for piping in, Bob. I appreciate it.
Julie
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Eddie reacted to RichardG in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
I like that!
This is one collision I am looking forward to seeing
Although I don't a great deal of woodworking, I've loved wood since I was a kid (both as a tree and material). I do very much admire the non-wood models you see on this site, but for me it's not the same.
All the best,
Richard.
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Eddie reacted to KeithAug in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
Julie
Your plan seems quite adventurous. If the waterline band is to look parallel when viewed from the side it has to be much wider at the stern (and a little wider at the bow) to compensate for the hull curvature. I think you could do a planked waterline of a few planks width but it would take a lot of shaping of the planks.
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Eddie reacted to Julie Mo in Endeavour 1934 by Julie Mo - Amati - Scale 1:35 - America's Cup UK J-Class Challenger
I couldn't get a good mental image looking at the model upside down so I flipped it...
I also tried to bend a mahogany plank to follow the waterline. It was doable until I got to the stern, then... NO WAY that's happening. Time to put the thinking cap back on. Maybe I'll stick with diagonal all the way.
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