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ChadB

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    ChadB got a reaction from Macika in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    11. Cross Spalls
     
    Thanks for the tips Lee and thanks to everyone else again for the kind words. 
    I decided to go Lee and Gary's route of a tight string down the centerline and cross spalls across the tops of the frames. I was kind of freaked out about glueing anything to the tops of frames, even though that whole area will be covered. Something about having to separate it at some point and the possibility of a frame breaking scares me a little- So I came up with something removeable that still does the job of centering the frame and keeping it in place.  I was lucky enough to have a few sheets of extra boxwood left over from my frames, thanks to Jeff at Hobbymill. I don't think I could say it enough that he provides the best quality milled wood around and has answered MANY questions I've thrown his direction about different types of wood. So back on subject- I ripped nine 5mmx5mm strips that were all long enough to cross the top of the widest frame (200mm or 8 inches would be a good length.      The next step was to take one of the spalls and lay it along the 'Top of Frame Line' mark on the frame assembly drawing and mark the inside of the frame. I then sanded down to this line on my disc sander and checked and resanded until both sides were where they needed to be..        So you'd think that would be good enough, right? But no- I'm a man, and it's in our genetics to over-engineer anything we make, especially something trivial like this. So I still had some of the small strips of boxwood left from making treenails (the stips that would eventually be cut down to toothpick size) and I glued one on each side along the top of the spall like so..      OK- so even though I joked about doing this- there was a reason behind it. I had a couple frames that that were a tiny bit too wide at the top for whatever reason. Nothing real bad, but enough that it seemed like it could be an annoyance down the line. So to fix that, I took some small square scraps and glued them to the outside of the strip affixed across the top of the spall. If the frame was a bit wide, I made sure that this little square was glued in snug against the frame to keep it in place.      Once everything was dry, I went back and just double checked that all the frames were fitted correctly and added the centerline on the top using the centerline mark on the frame assembly drawing. So now I have a frame that can be aligned correctly and ready to be mounted.       
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    ChadB got a reaction from Mike Y in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    9. Treenails
     
    Treenails. Ugh.    How anyone does a full model I don't know. I had read in one of the posts by Russ somewhere that it's a good idea to just start making treenails in advance whenever you have a minute so you don't have to sit there for hours mindlessly making them. I am here to tell you I wholly endorse that idea.    Boxwood treenails turned out to be a bit more work, but I'm glad I did it. Here's a photo of a 1mm boxwood vs. bamboo treenail mock-up to show the difference. They were given a coat of wipe on poly, which is  what I'll use...    boxwood left, bamboo right   It seems like bamboo might hold the slight edge in strength, although boxwood seemed fairly strong also. The cross grain on the bamboo is very porous and always looked green to me, while boxwood just has a cleaner. subtler look. I think in places where treenails are not seen (attaching frames to keel, etc...) I will use bamboo and attempt to use hardwood for the rest.  It may seem fairly straightforward, but I'm trying to take nothing for granted, so here's how I made my treenails..  I used a spare billet of boxwood that was the same thickness as the frames and ripped small plank-like pieces about 1.5mm wide...      ...then using an exacto and a metal ruler, cut each plank down to toothpick size...      This was then pulled through the drawplate (no. 36 or 37 hole on Byrnes drawplate). Most would break at some point or another so the 3 inch long toothpicks usually ended up considerably shorter, adding to the frustration of making treenails.  Once they were ready, it was simply inserting into the pre-drilled holes. Some slid right in so I rubbed a little white glue on them, while others were just tight enough that they didn't need anything. I left a little extra on each side of the frame and then just sanded it down.  All the frames are ready to be mounted on the keel now, so I've been starting to put together a jig for that similar to what I've seen in some of the full build logs. -Chad  
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    ChadB got a reaction from GuntherMT in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    8. Treenail Holes
     
    I've gotten all the frames fitted for the keel and keelson now and am starting to work on treenailing. One of the little things that I wanted to make sure I did was have the treenails evenly spaced and not just 'eyeball' it. Just one of those things that can look crummy if done wrong, and I really have no desire to mess it up and cut anymore frames! So I wanted to come up with a template of some kind to correctly drill my treenail holes. This is what I came up with for the floors
      pretty straight forward... It's just a cutout from the plans with the holes measured out...      The template for the heels of the futtocks took a little more brainstorming. I ended up with the following template. It's just a piece of rigid plastic I cut from the packaging of a pack of batteries. I just scribed a straight line down the middle and poked 2 holes an even amount from each side of the scribe. The scribe was placed on the joint on the frames and a mark left where I was to drill...      Overall I was happy with the results....      For the actual treenails, I was planning on using my old faithful bamboo skewers pulled through a drawplate (the Byrnes drawplate is the way to go..), but after alot of tests on old frames with different finishes and and even trying to soak the bamboo in stain, I'm just not liking the look. I ripped some boxwood (lord knows I have TONS of scrap to work with...) and tried a few trials and it looks real nice- very subtle but you know it's there. So now I'm going to attempt boxwood treenails, which won't be easy but it's the look I want so I'll suffer.  Anyway- this is what I have so far. I've also gone ahead and finished my keel (apple), keelson (apple) and false keel (indian laurel) with tung oil. -Chad         
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    ChadB got a reaction from Macika in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    6. Back on Track Making Frames
     
    Well, I think the little setback is the best thing that could have happened to me. I'm back on track now and have a little over half the frames built and they look a heck of alot better than the first ones. Restarting was definitely the best way to go.    So I thought I'd break down how I've been building my frames. It's alot like some of the other ways I've seen, but with a few little twists. It's been changing a little bit with each frame since I've found little ways to  make it more efficient. but here's where I'm at now.  1 - cut out pattern pieces for frames Pretty self explanatory here- just make sure there is extra "meat" one all four sides of the edges. I probably leave at least 4 mm just so I can get a good adhesion for cutting.    2- apply the pattern to the wood For this I used 3M Spray Mount. I have mixed feelings about this product since sometimes it peels off in the middle of cutting and other times it takes forever to try and remove it all from the wood. I can't find any correlation between dry time, cleanliness of wood, or the amount of spray- so after this project I'll probably be looking for something else. If anyone has any suggestions I'm open to them.  But back on track- Because of the shapes of the floors and futtocks, it's pretty easy to conserve wood and tack everything to the wood close to each other. I tried to avoid doing that since thats what led to my demise the first time around. Maybe when I get better at scroll sawing I'll feel more comfortable cramming everything together, but for now I've given each piece some air to breathe. I tried to stay with the grain but was not horribly worried about it on this model. It seems like that becomes very important with cant frames on full models. One last note on the 3M Spray Mount- it gets everywhere. I'm using a pair of needlenose pliers to hold the pattern while I spray it so it doesn't cover my hands. I've also since learned that spraying over the garage floor will cause the wife to ask questions like "Why is the floor all sticky?" - so I do all my spraying over the garbage can now.    3 - cut out the pattern I gave myself about a 1mm cushion on the sides and about 5 mm cushion on the heels of every piece. I think if there's ANYTHING taken away from this post- this is it. It's save you lots of future trouble and money.    4- file out the floor where it will sit on the keel. I just used a couple small square files I got at the hobby shop for this. Took off a little at a time until the floor fit snugly on the keel.    5- Assembling the first side of the frame. Once I knew the floor would fit on the keel, I sanded down the heels right to the edge of the line. For this I used a disc sander which has made things go really quick. It's important to make sure the table is squared up to the sanding disc to avoid problems later. Then I taped the floor down in position on the assembly drawing- which you won't see in the photos since that was something I just started doing last night. Everything else gets based off the floor, so it helps having to recenter it all the time.  Next up comes the second futtock. I sanded down the heel where it'll join the floor right to the edge of the line, then checked the fit. The goal was to have the heels sit flush AND have the frame eventually fit naturally into the jig without any pressure. Most of the time the futtocks will have to be resanded by just "touching" them to the sanded to get the correct angle. This was what I shot for..      After it "looked" good, I peeled back the edges of the pattern to see make sure the heels were fully flush..      Once everything looked kosher, I glued the floor and second futtock together. I found that poking the heel with an exacto to leave some small divits for the glue seems to give a better joint..      From here I just repeated the same steps to apply the fourth futtock, which gave me the first side of the frame.   
     
    6- assembling the other side of the frame One half the frame is done, the rest was pretty easy. I started by peeling the pattern off of the floor and second futtock, but I guess there's no reason not to take all the patterns off. It's important to watch for residue from the pattern or glue that could prevent both sides of the frame from sitting flush and leaving gaps. This is a little extreme, but a razor will scrape it all off..      Now I was ready to line up the first futtocks. The hardest part was having both heels sit together and still line up with the floor and second futtock. But once I got that, I just sanded the heel for the third futtock and got ready for glueing. I did the same thing with the divits on the heels and also on the face that was being glued down. Then just a little glue and a bunch of colorful clamps..      Once this was done, the rest is just repeating what was done above. Making sure the heels are flush and everything lines up with the assembly sheet in the plans are the biggest points. I sanded down a couple of the first frames (but have since left all frames unsanded so I can do all them at the same time) and have found that the joints are so good I had a tough time finding them. Two of my friends have taken a look and thought each frame was made from a single piece of wood! This is the finished result..     - file out the rest of the seat for the keel Since the floor is correctly filed for the keel, I just had to match up the first futtocks. Here's the right side done and the left side ready to be filed..      ...So that's it so far. I have to make a few more frames before moving on and may remake a frame or two also. I tried out some treenails on one and found that the Dremel workstation does not take the place of a good drill press, so that may be my next investment. I know this was a pretty long and detailed writeup on making frames, but this was one thing that I had no idea how to approach coming into this build, and like I said in the beginning- hopefully this will help someone else in the same boat as me. Oh yeah- here's how it's looking so far     far After the frames are done, I'll be working on sanding them down and treenailing.  -Chad
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    ChadB got a reaction from Macika in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    5. Screwing up Frames and Lessons Learned
     
    Well, I was hoping this next post would be my 'frames are completed- Hooray!' post, but it's gonna be a 'lessons learned post' instead. 
    I had cut out all my frame parts and started assembling the other day, when I came to the conclusion that I'm going to need to reorder some boxwood sheets and start over if I want to do a quality job. I made a couple major (and a couple minor) mistakes that led to this point that hopefully will help a few other modelers..    1.) Cut out your frame pieces with a little extra 'meat' on them- This was probably my biggest mistake. It led to me having to re-cut alot of pieces because I cut away too much. As many have said- you can take it off, but it's nearly impossible to put back on. I'm still a novice when it comes to scroll-sawing, I'll just consider it more practice.    2.) If buying milled wood, get enough and don't skimp for quality- Because of #1, I had to order more boxwood since I didn't expect to use as much. But I ordered from a different dealer since I wasn't too happy with the quality of the first dealer. I knew the second dealers quality was great, but had balked on ordering since I wanted to order all from one place. Well, the new boxwood was great, but the thickness was a little less than the original. This caused me to have to sand down the frame by hand if I had to make a replacement futtock. I ended up not sanding down enough on a frame, which left a gap between the second and third futtock. Trying to pry them apart after the glue had cured nearly caused a stitch in my finger.    3.)If using spray mount to tack the pattern onto your wood, don't put all patterns on unless you plan on cutting them all soon.- Maybe it was the humidity, but I had cut all the patterns out and placed them allon the boxwood at one time. As mentioned, I'm still pretty new to woodworking with power tools, so I took my time over a week or two to cut the frame pieces. Unfortunately I ended up having to re-tack alot of the patterns because they lifted before I cut, or had flapping patterns while scroll sawing. It was a minor thing, but a nuisance nonetheless.    ..Well- I'd be lying if I said I wasn't really discouraged last night when I came to the realization that I'd lost the work I'd done- but I told myself I was going to take my time and do everything right. I don't want to slap something together that looks crummy just to regret it later. Unfortunately my modeling time is close to nothing right now with a little one running around, another on the way, and my mother in law living with us, so it'll probably take another 2 months to get back to this point.  On the bright side, I guess I have been lucky enough to learn all these lessons now at one time, than slowly throughout the build! 
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    ChadB got a reaction from Macika in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    4. Cutting the Rabbet
     
    I cut my keel the other night and came up with this little jig to scrape out the rabbet... 
    Pretty easy- just a scrap block of wood with another scrap piece used as a "slide". That piece was cut in half and half a razor blade was super glued between at the correct angle. I found the angle by taping the keel 
    cross section to the end... 
    I went through quite a few razor blades, but I found that with the super glue, the blade never moved during scraping and was easily removed with a pair of pliers. 
    Overall, I was really pleased with the outcome- the rabbet has a nice, sharp edge and matches up nicely with the drawings. 
    On to the False keel, keelson, and frames!
     

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    ChadB got a reaction from Gabek in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    19. Anchor Stock Planking
     
    I decided to give anchor stock planking for my wales a go instead of the four basic strakes in the plans. I used Peter Goodwin't book on the English Man of War for most of the information. There was a fantastic write up on lengths and just general information on them. So far I've found this book a great investment and a good sidekick to the cross section. 
    The very fist thing I learned is that just winging it on a tablesaw will just give you a heap of ebony scrap and leave you a couple bucks short from having to replace it.  So once I got rolling I started by drawing out a template to get sizes and angles. I figured that each plank will have to be pretty exact for them all to fit together nicely, so this was a good starting point. Unfortunately I'm a computer idiot so yes- that is an  actual picture of a drawing .      Next I cut up some ebony making sure all the planks were exactly the same size, specifically 4.5 inches long- which is really important. Then I went about making a jig for the tablesaw that would slide against the fence and cut at the correct angle. I find pictures better than trying to describe- so here's what I came up with. I will not that keeping all the planks the exact size was important to make sure they fit snugly in the jig and didn't bounce around while cutting.        From here everything was pretty simple. The only other note would be that I found ebony is some nasty stuff. It gets all over the place and chips easily, so I tried to give everything a once over to make sure the cuts didn't take any extra. Also, since everything is enclosed in the jig when making the initial cut the triangular piece left over tries to shoot down between the blade and the table, which caused some problems the first few times. I aleviated the situation by using a footpedal to stop and start the saw and stop right before cutting all the way through and just breaking the little triangle off...      I would then just pop it back in the jig and finish that side. Afterward, I just turned it around, made sure it was seated in the jig against the left side and repeated. This was when a footpedal came in handy since I used a pushstick to hold the piece in place.      From there it was just repeating until I had enough (about double whats in the photo for both sides)      After this, fitting them to the frames was simple. Since each side only has 1 full anchor stock and the rest were partial, it was just cutting most up to fit them here and there, but because of the exactness in making  them they all fit well. This can be seen in the photo. which needed some glare to actually see where all of them join!      So once the wales were done and I was contemplating the deck beams, I gave wales, hold and frames that will be seen a coat of wipe on poly. On a separate note- I didn't realize how bad the photos of the hold were (I think my camera is on the way out) until I went back and looked, so here's where I stand now.. -Chad          
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    ChadB got a reaction from Canute in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    10a. A Good Conversation on Aligning the Frames Correctly
     
    A very interesting and useful looking jig. How do you ensure that the frames are not skewed to one side? Are you going to set up a grid on the vertical board to ensure that the frames are even about the central axis, or do you have another method of controlling this? 
    John -------------------------   John- That's the question that I wrestled with yesterday afternoon and woke up this morning at 530 thinking about. I put a centerline down the middle- which can be seen in the last photo- just to start with. I may try something along the lines of Lee's Le Fleuron build where he has used a string pulled tight down the centerline and spacers across the top of the frames marked in the middle. I can't remember which other build log (sometimes they all just meld together in my head after a while) had a grid also, which is another good idea- unless the grid is off a little. Hopefully I'll have an idea ready to go by tonight.   -Chad   -------------------------   The other builder who uses the wide open string method is an exceptional one, Gary Bishop with his outstanding Alfred build.  Let me give you some hints for this jig, these are not all important here for the x-section, but for a full build they are a must.  Glue something across the back of the angle pieces. Right now they are very good, but after a few times sliding this back/ forth, the jig will start to loosen up a little. Hard to notice until you have a few bad frames  set.  Use some wax on the outer edges of the keel clamping pieces- nothing worse then having this start to bind a little when you have glue on the pieces and need to move a little more quickly.  A string and cross spalls at the top of the frames guarantee the frame is set exactly correct. Glue the cross spall across the top timbers of the frame, lay the frame over the plans and when all lines are covered by the frame, and the keel notch is right on- mark the cross spall.  When setting up the frame, just line up the string and the mark and you know for sure that nothing is wrong and the true shape of the hull can be sanded too- you are not starting out with any dips or places that are too small for the envelope of the frame before you even begin fairing.  Keep up the great work, I love logs like this!  -Lee      
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    ChadB got a reaction from Canute in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    Tony- I love this idea! I'm still using that damn spray on adhesive on my current build but I think that comes to an end now! I stil have the needlenose pliers I used for the cross section build and they are nearly impossible to open because they are so gunked up at this point. Thanks for the pointer!
     
    -Chad
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    10. Jig making for Setting Frames
     
     Today I was able to put together a jig for aligning and attaching the frames to the keel. This is a pretty vital step so I've been going through various building logs and coming up with ideas of how I was going to do this. Everything kind of came together this morning and here's what I came up with... 
      I started with two half inch thick by five and a half inch wide billets of poplar from Lowes which cost a total of 6 bucks. The first step was cutting a base that would be long enough to hold the keel and have plenty of extra working room- this one was about 1ft long. Next was something to hold the keel in place on the board. I ripped 2 pieces to run the length of the base with a height of a quarter inch, so as not to interfere with the rabbet. One of them was then glued to the base like so..      Next, I took a print of the 'cross section frames' and cut out a section that shows all frames and the keel. This was then cut into two, making sure to cut exactly perpendicular to the frames. I then attached one side of the drawing with 3M spray mount to the base like shown, using a square to make sure the frames will be perpendicular..      Next the other side of the drawing was attached in the same way to the other side. Two things to watch is make sure you have fore and aft facing the same direction on each side and that both sides are aligned correctly. This is what it looks like at this point..      I then put the keel up against the 'rail' and glued the other 'rail' in place (over the frame drawing). The keel fits snugly in place and has no extra movement. With the keel in the correct position, I then glued small stoppers made of scrap on each end to keep the keel from sliding out of place. You can see these in the last few photos..      Next was the vertical board that will align the frames. My goal was to have it contact as much of the frame as possible. I cut a notch in the bottom just wide enough to straddle the 'rails' and just high enough to clear  the keel..      Next came probably the most crucial part- creating the pieces that will keep that board on the correct axis when mounting the frames. After they were cut, I checked and checked and checked again that they were an exact 90 degree angle. The shape is totally arbitrary- it's the angle that counts.      Finally the assembly. Pretty simple from here, but still easy to screw up. I attached the 90 degree pieces to the board tight in against the 'rails' so there isn't any play side to side. It's also imperative to make sure the board lines up exactly against the frame drawing edge and is at an exact 90 degrees up and down.     And that's it. The final product..      

     
    A long time ago I bought the fair- a-frame from Model Expo. I think I paid something like 40 bucks for it and what a piece of junk it was. This cost me 6 bucks and is essentially the same thing just alot more accurate and sturdier. Hopefully someone will see this (or the others throughout various build logs) and be saved the frustration of trying to use that god-awful thing.  So next up is the step that probably scares me the most- actually using this. I see attaching frames as the 'no-turning-back point'. I just always have this feeling that I'l get everything attached and remember some vital step that I missed, so I think I'll spend tomorrow making sure I have everything that needs to be done squared away. -Chad
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    9. Treenails
     
    Treenails. Ugh.    How anyone does a full model I don't know. I had read in one of the posts by Russ somewhere that it's a good idea to just start making treenails in advance whenever you have a minute so you don't have to sit there for hours mindlessly making them. I am here to tell you I wholly endorse that idea.    Boxwood treenails turned out to be a bit more work, but I'm glad I did it. Here's a photo of a 1mm boxwood vs. bamboo treenail mock-up to show the difference. They were given a coat of wipe on poly, which is  what I'll use...    boxwood left, bamboo right   It seems like bamboo might hold the slight edge in strength, although boxwood seemed fairly strong also. The cross grain on the bamboo is very porous and always looked green to me, while boxwood just has a cleaner. subtler look. I think in places where treenails are not seen (attaching frames to keel, etc...) I will use bamboo and attempt to use hardwood for the rest.  It may seem fairly straightforward, but I'm trying to take nothing for granted, so here's how I made my treenails..  I used a spare billet of boxwood that was the same thickness as the frames and ripped small plank-like pieces about 1.5mm wide...      ...then using an exacto and a metal ruler, cut each plank down to toothpick size...      This was then pulled through the drawplate (no. 36 or 37 hole on Byrnes drawplate). Most would break at some point or another so the 3 inch long toothpicks usually ended up considerably shorter, adding to the frustration of making treenails.  Once they were ready, it was simply inserting into the pre-drilled holes. Some slid right in so I rubbed a little white glue on them, while others were just tight enough that they didn't need anything. I left a little extra on each side of the frame and then just sanded it down.  All the frames are ready to be mounted on the keel now, so I've been starting to put together a jig for that similar to what I've seen in some of the full build logs. -Chad  
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    8. Treenail Holes
     
    I've gotten all the frames fitted for the keel and keelson now and am starting to work on treenailing. One of the little things that I wanted to make sure I did was have the treenails evenly spaced and not just 'eyeball' it. Just one of those things that can look crummy if done wrong, and I really have no desire to mess it up and cut anymore frames! So I wanted to come up with a template of some kind to correctly drill my treenail holes. This is what I came up with for the floors
      pretty straight forward... It's just a cutout from the plans with the holes measured out...      The template for the heels of the futtocks took a little more brainstorming. I ended up with the following template. It's just a piece of rigid plastic I cut from the packaging of a pack of batteries. I just scribed a straight line down the middle and poked 2 holes an even amount from each side of the scribe. The scribe was placed on the joint on the frames and a mark left where I was to drill...      Overall I was happy with the results....      For the actual treenails, I was planning on using my old faithful bamboo skewers pulled through a drawplate (the Byrnes drawplate is the way to go..), but after alot of tests on old frames with different finishes and and even trying to soak the bamboo in stain, I'm just not liking the look. I ripped some boxwood (lord knows I have TONS of scrap to work with...) and tried a few trials and it looks real nice- very subtle but you know it's there. So now I'm going to attempt boxwood treenails, which won't be easy but it's the look I want so I'll suffer.  Anyway- this is what I have so far. I've also gone ahead and finished my keel (apple), keelson (apple) and false keel (indian laurel) with tung oil. -Chad         
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    7. Dry Fitting Frames
     
    So I now have all the frames cut and together, but they are still rough. I decided I'm going to fair down the frames all together once they are mounted on the keel like it would be done on a full framed model just for a little practice. I don't see this being a problem once the frames are treenailed down and the keelson is in place. I think I will also put spacers in above the wales since both sides will be planked wales up, which will add a little sturdiness. 
      I'm now doing a final fit of all the frames to the keel and cutting the notch for the keelson. I had cut it very roughly- and in hindsight probably could have cut a little tighter- so there's alot of sand a little and check, sand a little and check... . Luckily this can all be done in the house and not in the garage where it's getting a little chilly.  Here's where I'm at..   
     

     
    these are the tools I've been using for the keelson. The large file was an impulse buy at Harbor Freight for a dollar that has come in very handy for this. It seems big but for some reason is easier to use.. 
     

     
    ..So once this is done, I'll be treenailing the frames, finishing the keel and keelson with tung oil, then treenailing the frames to the keel. Onward! -Chad
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    ChadB got a reaction from GuntherMT in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    6. Back on Track Making Frames
     
    Well, I think the little setback is the best thing that could have happened to me. I'm back on track now and have a little over half the frames built and they look a heck of alot better than the first ones. Restarting was definitely the best way to go.    So I thought I'd break down how I've been building my frames. It's alot like some of the other ways I've seen, but with a few little twists. It's been changing a little bit with each frame since I've found little ways to  make it more efficient. but here's where I'm at now.  1 - cut out pattern pieces for frames Pretty self explanatory here- just make sure there is extra "meat" one all four sides of the edges. I probably leave at least 4 mm just so I can get a good adhesion for cutting.    2- apply the pattern to the wood For this I used 3M Spray Mount. I have mixed feelings about this product since sometimes it peels off in the middle of cutting and other times it takes forever to try and remove it all from the wood. I can't find any correlation between dry time, cleanliness of wood, or the amount of spray- so after this project I'll probably be looking for something else. If anyone has any suggestions I'm open to them.  But back on track- Because of the shapes of the floors and futtocks, it's pretty easy to conserve wood and tack everything to the wood close to each other. I tried to avoid doing that since thats what led to my demise the first time around. Maybe when I get better at scroll sawing I'll feel more comfortable cramming everything together, but for now I've given each piece some air to breathe. I tried to stay with the grain but was not horribly worried about it on this model. It seems like that becomes very important with cant frames on full models. One last note on the 3M Spray Mount- it gets everywhere. I'm using a pair of needlenose pliers to hold the pattern while I spray it so it doesn't cover my hands. I've also since learned that spraying over the garage floor will cause the wife to ask questions like "Why is the floor all sticky?" - so I do all my spraying over the garbage can now.    3 - cut out the pattern I gave myself about a 1mm cushion on the sides and about 5 mm cushion on the heels of every piece. I think if there's ANYTHING taken away from this post- this is it. It's save you lots of future trouble and money.    4- file out the floor where it will sit on the keel. I just used a couple small square files I got at the hobby shop for this. Took off a little at a time until the floor fit snugly on the keel.    5- Assembling the first side of the frame. Once I knew the floor would fit on the keel, I sanded down the heels right to the edge of the line. For this I used a disc sander which has made things go really quick. It's important to make sure the table is squared up to the sanding disc to avoid problems later. Then I taped the floor down in position on the assembly drawing- which you won't see in the photos since that was something I just started doing last night. Everything else gets based off the floor, so it helps having to recenter it all the time.  Next up comes the second futtock. I sanded down the heel where it'll join the floor right to the edge of the line, then checked the fit. The goal was to have the heels sit flush AND have the frame eventually fit naturally into the jig without any pressure. Most of the time the futtocks will have to be resanded by just "touching" them to the sanded to get the correct angle. This was what I shot for..      After it "looked" good, I peeled back the edges of the pattern to see make sure the heels were fully flush..      Once everything looked kosher, I glued the floor and second futtock together. I found that poking the heel with an exacto to leave some small divits for the glue seems to give a better joint..      From here I just repeated the same steps to apply the fourth futtock, which gave me the first side of the frame.   
     
    6- assembling the other side of the frame One half the frame is done, the rest was pretty easy. I started by peeling the pattern off of the floor and second futtock, but I guess there's no reason not to take all the patterns off. It's important to watch for residue from the pattern or glue that could prevent both sides of the frame from sitting flush and leaving gaps. This is a little extreme, but a razor will scrape it all off..      Now I was ready to line up the first futtocks. The hardest part was having both heels sit together and still line up with the floor and second futtock. But once I got that, I just sanded the heel for the third futtock and got ready for glueing. I did the same thing with the divits on the heels and also on the face that was being glued down. Then just a little glue and a bunch of colorful clamps..      Once this was done, the rest is just repeating what was done above. Making sure the heels are flush and everything lines up with the assembly sheet in the plans are the biggest points. I sanded down a couple of the first frames (but have since left all frames unsanded so I can do all them at the same time) and have found that the joints are so good I had a tough time finding them. Two of my friends have taken a look and thought each frame was made from a single piece of wood! This is the finished result..     - file out the rest of the seat for the keel Since the floor is correctly filed for the keel, I just had to match up the first futtocks. Here's the right side done and the left side ready to be filed..      ...So that's it so far. I have to make a few more frames before moving on and may remake a frame or two also. I tried out some treenails on one and found that the Dremel workstation does not take the place of a good drill press, so that may be my next investment. I know this was a pretty long and detailed writeup on making frames, but this was one thing that I had no idea how to approach coming into this build, and like I said in the beginning- hopefully this will help someone else in the same boat as me. Oh yeah- here's how it's looking so far     far After the frames are done, I'll be working on sanding them down and treenailing.  -Chad
  15. Like
    ChadB got a reaction from Gus M in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    Back before the "Great Crash" of MSW I had built the Triton cross section. I had a pretty robust build log to go along with it where I detailed just about every little step of my build. As it turns out, a friend of mine had actually saved about 95% of it and it has been sitting on my hard drive for quite some time. I haven't been on here much at all the last couple years but I saw my wood list made it's way on here and has hopefully helped a few people. It got me thinking that I would be good to get the build log out there to help others, also. I am going to try to start parsing it out in posts over time starting from the beginning going step by step, but I also have no problem giving out the .xps file to anyone currently building who doesn't want to wait (just be warned it is 180 pages long and includes a lot of fluff you would have to wade through!).

    -Chad 
     

     

     

     

     

  16. Like
    ChadB got a reaction from Mike Y in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    5. Screwing up Frames and Lessons Learned
     
    Well, I was hoping this next post would be my 'frames are completed- Hooray!' post, but it's gonna be a 'lessons learned post' instead. 
    I had cut out all my frame parts and started assembling the other day, when I came to the conclusion that I'm going to need to reorder some boxwood sheets and start over if I want to do a quality job. I made a couple major (and a couple minor) mistakes that led to this point that hopefully will help a few other modelers..    1.) Cut out your frame pieces with a little extra 'meat' on them- This was probably my biggest mistake. It led to me having to re-cut alot of pieces because I cut away too much. As many have said- you can take it off, but it's nearly impossible to put back on. I'm still a novice when it comes to scroll-sawing, I'll just consider it more practice.    2.) If buying milled wood, get enough and don't skimp for quality- Because of #1, I had to order more boxwood since I didn't expect to use as much. But I ordered from a different dealer since I wasn't too happy with the quality of the first dealer. I knew the second dealers quality was great, but had balked on ordering since I wanted to order all from one place. Well, the new boxwood was great, but the thickness was a little less than the original. This caused me to have to sand down the frame by hand if I had to make a replacement futtock. I ended up not sanding down enough on a frame, which left a gap between the second and third futtock. Trying to pry them apart after the glue had cured nearly caused a stitch in my finger.    3.)If using spray mount to tack the pattern onto your wood, don't put all patterns on unless you plan on cutting them all soon.- Maybe it was the humidity, but I had cut all the patterns out and placed them allon the boxwood at one time. As mentioned, I'm still pretty new to woodworking with power tools, so I took my time over a week or two to cut the frame pieces. Unfortunately I ended up having to re-tack alot of the patterns because they lifted before I cut, or had flapping patterns while scroll sawing. It was a minor thing, but a nuisance nonetheless.    ..Well- I'd be lying if I said I wasn't really discouraged last night when I came to the realization that I'd lost the work I'd done- but I told myself I was going to take my time and do everything right. I don't want to slap something together that looks crummy just to regret it later. Unfortunately my modeling time is close to nothing right now with a little one running around, another on the way, and my mother in law living with us, so it'll probably take another 2 months to get back to this point.  On the bright side, I guess I have been lucky enough to learn all these lessons now at one time, than slowly throughout the build! 
  17. Like
    ChadB got a reaction from shipcarpenter in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    4. Cutting the Rabbet
     
    I cut my keel the other night and came up with this little jig to scrape out the rabbet... 
    Pretty easy- just a scrap block of wood with another scrap piece used as a "slide". That piece was cut in half and half a razor blade was super glued between at the correct angle. I found the angle by taping the keel 
    cross section to the end... 
    I went through quite a few razor blades, but I found that with the super glue, the blade never moved during scraping and was easily removed with a pair of pliers. 
    Overall, I was really pleased with the outcome- the rabbet has a nice, sharp edge and matches up nicely with the drawings. 
    On to the False keel, keelson, and frames!
     

  18. Like
    ChadB got a reaction from Canute in Triton cross-section by tkay11 (aka Tony) - FINISHED   
    Nice job- looking good! I love the look of oiled wood!   -Chad
  19. Like
    ChadB reacted to -Dallen in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    I'm so glad that this build was reposted. Reading it and digesting the contents make me want to dive into parts of the build that I have not come to yet. So many techniques and ideas to choose from. How can one not learn with so many shipwrights sharing a vast amount of knowledge. Thank you all.
  20. Like
    ChadB got a reaction from GuntherMT in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    19. Anchor Stock Planking
     
    I decided to give anchor stock planking for my wales a go instead of the four basic strakes in the plans. I used Peter Goodwin't book on the English Man of War for most of the information. There was a fantastic write up on lengths and just general information on them. So far I've found this book a great investment and a good sidekick to the cross section. 
    The very fist thing I learned is that just winging it on a tablesaw will just give you a heap of ebony scrap and leave you a couple bucks short from having to replace it.  So once I got rolling I started by drawing out a template to get sizes and angles. I figured that each plank will have to be pretty exact for them all to fit together nicely, so this was a good starting point. Unfortunately I'm a computer idiot so yes- that is an  actual picture of a drawing .      Next I cut up some ebony making sure all the planks were exactly the same size, specifically 4.5 inches long- which is really important. Then I went about making a jig for the tablesaw that would slide against the fence and cut at the correct angle. I find pictures better than trying to describe- so here's what I came up with. I will not that keeping all the planks the exact size was important to make sure they fit snugly in the jig and didn't bounce around while cutting.        From here everything was pretty simple. The only other note would be that I found ebony is some nasty stuff. It gets all over the place and chips easily, so I tried to give everything a once over to make sure the cuts didn't take any extra. Also, since everything is enclosed in the jig when making the initial cut the triangular piece left over tries to shoot down between the blade and the table, which caused some problems the first few times. I aleviated the situation by using a footpedal to stop and start the saw and stop right before cutting all the way through and just breaking the little triangle off...      I would then just pop it back in the jig and finish that side. Afterward, I just turned it around, made sure it was seated in the jig against the left side and repeated. This was when a footpedal came in handy since I used a pushstick to hold the piece in place.      From there it was just repeating until I had enough (about double whats in the photo for both sides)      After this, fitting them to the frames was simple. Since each side only has 1 full anchor stock and the rest were partial, it was just cutting most up to fit them here and there, but because of the exactness in making  them they all fit well. This can be seen in the photo. which needed some glare to actually see where all of them join!      So once the wales were done and I was contemplating the deck beams, I gave wales, hold and frames that will be seen a coat of wipe on poly. On a separate note- I didn't realize how bad the photos of the hold were (I think my camera is on the way out) until I went back and looked, so here's where I stand now.. -Chad          
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    ChadB got a reaction from GuntherMT in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    18. Filling out the Gunports
     
    I was fooling around with making anchor stock wales (which is a little trickier than I thought) and decided to put it aside for a while and go ahead and finish the gunports. Since the gunwales are going to be done in bloodwood to simulate red paint, I went ahead and did the sills and lintels in bloodwood also. I also added a thin veneer to the sides to complete it. Since the insides of the gunports will be the only parts showing, it looks a little rough around the edges (literally). I just made sure the joints on the inside were nice and tight and that planking on the outside and inside will lay flat and not leave any gaps. -Chad 
     

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    ChadB got a reaction from Mike Y in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    17. Finishing the Hold Planking, Cutting Limber Boards, and Cutting out Gunport Sills and Lintels
     
    . I finished up the hold planking with one side fully planked and the other just thick stuff as to show off frames. All the planking was pretty straightforward, but I was a little worried about making sure my treenails were in nice straight lines. It's one of those things I've tried to do to the best of my ability since mediocre results would stick out like a sore thumb. 
    I started with this little jig which was a small piece of scrap with a block on either end that will let it fit over all the frames and stay in place. I marked on the scrap the positions of each treenail so it could be marked  on the frames.  *Sorry about the photos. I'm actually a little embarassed to be showing them because of the horrible white balance. My kitchen table has been my headquarters over the winter and the lighting overhead is the new  energy-saving flourescents      Once I had marks across each frame, I connected the dots..      Once the lines were drawn, I drew perpendicular lines to make sure they would be even across the frames also, which left me with small crosses at the points that needed drilling..      I started drilling the holes using a pinvise but it took forever, so I switched over to my small rechargeable Dremel which worked well. I went through and used a pn to start a hole so the drill had somewhere to start. All treenails were done with cherry and I used a 1mm hole for the thick stuff and a 1/2 mm hole for all the rest..      Once that was done I wanted to finish up my limberboards. I had opened a thread a while back in the general discussion about it and came to the conclusion that they would be 3 feet long with openings on either side to pry them out. So scaled down gave me 3/4 inch long sections with half circles drilled out on each end. I already had the long continuous limberboard shaped, so it was just a matter of cutting and drilling. I started by cutting the lengths, then setting up this little jig to make sure the half circles lined up. Two boards were put in and lined up so the drill bit would fall directly between the two. Any small adjustments were made  with a file..      Overall a simple task once thought out. I will glue in place eventually and there will be small pieces to cover the ends. I don't know if they were actually staggered like this, but I really like the look.     And then just last night I finally built up the courage to cut out the slots for the gunport sills and lintels. I don't know why this scared me so much, but it ended up being incredibly easy. I think it was actually seeing Grant,s method of cutting out the slots in the floors on Dokondr's build log that really made it easy- thanks Grant! Everything was already marked, so I just used a jeweler's saw to make a few horizontal cuts and break out the pieces with an exacto knife.        So that's it so far. Next up I believe I'll finally tackle the wales! -Chad
  23. Like
    ChadB got a reaction from GuntherMT in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    16. Adding the Thick Stuff
     
    So things have been quite easy now because of the time put in to fair the hull and make sure all the lines were transferred correctly. I decided to go ahead and do all the thick stuff first and fill in the rest once that was all in place. It was real nice to work with something other than boxwood and apple (cherry), too. 
    I started by soaking the cut planks for about 20 minutes and then giving them a little bend by clamping both sides over a board with some foam in the middle. The foam keeps it from getting marked up and gives it just enough of a bend to sit a little more naturally against the frames..      Then I gave one side a bit of a beveled edge using a sanding block so that way the other plank touching it would fit nicely. I also sanded the back (the side sitting on the frames) to a bit of a rounded edge so it conformed to the frames. I finished off the front side with some 400 grit sandpaper on the felt block (which is quickly becoming one of my favorite tools) and clamped it down.      The limber strake was alot easier to make than I thought it was going to be. I just set the fence of the tablesaw as close to the blade as possible and raised the blade to just the height of the groove where the limber board site. The limber board was hand made and just took some trial and error to get the right angles. -Chad  The "finished product"..             
  24. Like
    ChadB got a reaction from GuntherMT in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    15. Making a Story Pole and Transferring Lines.
     
    So I decided the next step should be transferring lines to the inside and outside of the hull. It took me a few days to remember reading in one of Russ's older posts about using something called a "Story Pole". It's a vertical "pole" that has all the heights of different spots on the hull. Once the idea kind of came together it seemed like a great idea for making sure everything was going to be even and uniform on both sides. I started by using some scrap from the frame setting jig I used as a base, since I was going to use that jig to hold the model in place while transferring lines. Then I used various drawings to transfer heights to a scrap piece of apple left over from the keel. Put together and squared up to make sure it was exactly vertical, this was the finished product.. 
     

     

     
    Next I used some more scrap to make a couple "arms" to beable to get the height right up against the frame to mark it.. 
     

     
    Then I made sure the model was secured in the jig and centered the same way I used to mount the frames. This way nothing was wobbling or uneven..
     

     
    Transferring lines was then real easy. Move the story pole up to the frame and tick of the height. I just started from the bottom and worked my way around the hull. Once a height was sufficiently marked, I just  moved on to the next height up (unlike in the photo that was taken post-transfer  )      Once I had enough marks, it was just a matter of "connecting the dots". I double checked the height by measuring from a fixed point- say the top of keel- to the mark and then checked the measurement on both the opposite side and opposite end to make sure nothing is going to be either crooked or slanted!      I'll probably cover the lines with a bit of wipe on poly or some other finish just to make sure the lines don't get rubbed off along the way, but the final product should be good enough to finally start adding some meat  to these bones! -Chad    
  25. Like
    ChadB got a reaction from Mike Y in Triton Cross Section by ChadB (Chach_86) - FINISHED   
    18. Filling out the Gunports
     
    I was fooling around with making anchor stock wales (which is a little trickier than I thought) and decided to put it aside for a while and go ahead and finish the gunports. Since the gunwales are going to be done in bloodwood to simulate red paint, I went ahead and did the sills and lintels in bloodwood also. I also added a thin veneer to the sides to complete it. Since the insides of the gunports will be the only parts showing, it looks a little rough around the edges (literally). I just made sure the joints on the inside were nice and tight and that planking on the outside and inside will lay flat and not leave any gaps. -Chad 
     

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