AON

Then I did my lofting in batches.
The wing transom has the corner at the top and the round just below it
 
I admit the shape is not right, the profile of the hull is incorrect, BUT I GOT IT!
 
I should mention I had to draw a shorter lofting guideline line on new planes that were directly over top of the established waterlines
The loft feature recognizes the shorter line to create the shape.
The longer waterlines confuse it.
 
When I section the loft horizontally I can see the shape is wrong.
I will have to redo it all properly

It is 6:07 am
The sun has yet to grace the horizon to reveal the glorious crack of dawn
I had a fantastic sleep and awoke with an idea
A simple idea I might add
If this works all I can say is "isn't that they way it always turns out when things seem impossible?"
Wish me luck as I may not be beaten yet

All of the cross braces are in place. A nose cone has been shaped as well - I may try to make this a little more pointed later.

It's now a little later. After looking more at the above picture, I really started to feel the nose was too blunt. So with a sanding stick back in my hand, I've tried to make the transition more smooth. I'm good with this (for now)!

Thank you for the comments and guidance Druxey and Don
 
I will definitely take another look at my "corner" issue.
 
Don, the answer is both Yes and No.
I do not think the wing transom shape is quite correct... look at where I have a corner problem... you have no "corner".
Take a look at the photo Druxey posted on the former page.
There is a definite "shaping" of the wing transom that I guess I haven't quite gotten correct as yet
I can see it on the Bellona build also.
 
BTW... I hate that you could produce the shape so (seemingly) easy.
Tell me it wasn't that easy (even if you have to lie to me)

I have been trying to get the lofting of the stern done and had continuously "failed"
(between that and my computer crashing)
 
I sketched in a grid work of guide lines to improve the shape
I sliced and dice it
I broke it up into wee pieces in an attempt to get portions of it to work
 
Finally last night I had an epiphany
I turned it all sideways in my mind
used the horizontal lines to be the profile lines versus the guide lines
Used the vertical lines to be the guide lines versus the profile lines
The damn thing finally seemed to work on the upper wing transom area
or at least about 80% as it did not follow all the curves I had but the shape is seemingly more proper in that there are no waves, folds or creases.
 
I will continue on this path a wee bit at a time until she hopefully fills in

Having slept on it last night I tried something new early this morning.... shorter guidelines that start/end at the two profile lines.
 
This failed also.
 
Then I had another idea while having my morning shower... I've always found that I "cracked the code" to many design conundrums during my morning shower.. this might be a strange way to resolve a problem but it usually works for me.
 
I will try my new idea tonight if I have the time.
 
The idea is to create a multitude of new horizontal planes beginning just below the top side of the wing transom and then drawing new guide lines of the sliced profile at these decreasing elevations... adding these to the loft feature and hopefully the result will be what is wanted. I may need to remove the original guide lines after the new sketches are complete if the loft should fail with them.
 
Once again, if someone has another idea please let me know.... and thank you for following.

My NRG mentor is reviewing the whole model at the moment and I am certain he will have similar comments!
 
I am late off to work this morning as I have a cracked tooth that will be tended to in less than a hour... so I have a moment to see the example.
 
I see the sharp bend on the aft underside of the model you are referring to and I am thinking I'll need more guidelines to remove it.
 
Hope to have an opportunity to tackle it tonight
 
Thank you Druxey
 
 
DON: I'm glad it looks easy!  If I were better at this 3D stuff I might believe you  

I've been busy with the expansion of my workroom and am now down to taping and mudding the joints.
Then is painting and moving all the gear back in.  That gets me that much closer to building my model.  
 
After looking at a few books, builds on the forum and my plans I think I understand the upper wing transom comment.
 
I made adjustments by adding reference points and manipulating the guide line to the shape on the plan.
here are the results.
 
I'll have to get some of the dents out of the hull that I noticed at the stern before I start slicing the frames and making templates.... but I am that much closer.  

I now have two issues to deal with
1. the hull near the stern is not so "fair" and needs some tending to
2. the top edge of the lower transom should be angled or sloped downwards and it isn't
 
I thought I would simple create a sketch and "extrude cut" out the slope
You can see when I tried that the program does not give me the option to extrude cut
 
I think I need to create a sloped plane to draw the upper guide line on so the lofted feature will end properly at the top edge
but not now... time for breakfast and getting ready for the work day.

I turned of the distracting layout
I drew a shortened station 30-2
I drew a couple more guidelines at the keel and stern post rabbet lines
 
Opened a new loft feature
picked my guidelines
picked my profile lines and there it was
 

Today I finished adding the metal fasteners. I decided to use 22 gauge copper for them. I also started adding the cross braces; they are being made from 0.015" piano wire.
 

Good afternoon Hexnut and thank you for the suggestion.
 
I think what I will do first is ignore the upper transom outline as I've pondered on it (off and on all day) and I think that is what is blocking my vision.
 
If I try to loft the hull up to the upper most lower transom timber below the top of the stern post and see how she looks I might be pleasantly surprised.
 
After all most of what makes up the upper transom seems like an after thought, "tacked on" like the officers "out houses" and sunset viewing "railed balcony".... they certainly new how to live!

... continued
 
15. Laying out the stern transom
 
Next will be the lofting feature to add the shape to the hull ... but I still have some figuring out to do

My meager progress report
I am sure there is likely easier ways to do what I've done.....
 
Having established the rabbet line I completed the bow shape as follows:
  1. You will note I have an additional frame outline towards the bow. The aft is the foremost station Y off the plan. The one forward of it is located at the forward face of the HEAD bulkhead.  I created two (2) planes at this exact location. 2. On one I created the full HEAD Bulkead frame tracing.  3. On the other I traced over the first to create the shorter HEAD Bulkhead frame outline. 4. I did this at each station where the TOP TIMBER heights change 5. I created a 3D sketch of GUIDE LINES. I created new lines at the very top of the top timbers where the elevation changes   more to follow shortly

it has been awhile since I posted any update.  I've been rather busy with diversions.  My play area (workroom) extension is well underway with the size having been slightly more than doubled ..... studs up, wiring to electrical plug outlets and light switches installed, drywall up.  I need to wire to new lights in the ceiling and install the drop ceiling tiles that I have had stashed in a corner for about 12 years.  Then the walls and floor get painted and I move everything back in.  Geeze I hope it is big enough!
 
Left work last night to have a beer with an old acquaintance (employment placement agent or better known as a head hunter  aka pimp)... why? because I just discover back when he actually worked for a living he was a naval architect. We discussed my model.  The first thing he said was that I was going to have trouble because I would be striving for perfection and they were anything but perfect. (damn he knows me and my type well... probably why he is so successful in his new career) He told me they would build per the yards experience using the contract and drawings as a guide. Dimensions would be close to but not less than the scantlings.  Most people couldn't read so they did what they knew and made it functional utilizing the sizes and shape of wood available to them.  No two ships of the same design would have been identical even if built in the same yard off the same plans with the same contract.
 
There was a lot more discussed but the "striving for perfection" has been a battle I've been losing and to hear him blurt it out so easily having not witnessed my struggles so far.... hit me hard on the chin.  So maybe what some honest people here on the forum have been saying will finally sink in and I can relax some?
 
Then I came home to discover my four volume set of TFFM arrived.  Started thumbing through volume one and the rest of the evening was lost.
Thank you David for writing the 3 volumes... have not yet unseal wrapped Greg's contribution but I am certain it will have me cemented to the chair also!
 
At present, after having completed establishing the rabbet lines I am re-lofting the hull and want to better establish the stern but as I said I've created many diversion projects so it may be awhile.

Presently busy realigning all previous station frame outlines to intersect with the upper rabbet line.
 
Amazing just how much an error will teach a person

I began sketching in the deck elevations at the bow and stern and noticed the round house deck is slightly elevated (above) the upper deck.
 
Having studied the Vanguard models built and in progress on the forum I note they are at the same elevation on them.
I also have thumbnail images of the Edgar and my plans of the Goliath locate them at the same elevation.
Ree's plates show it as being on the same elevation.
 
Would anyone have an explanation why the Elephant's as built plans are so different?

Below is the corrected model results.
I've got the hull outline at the bow figured out and need to understand (draw) the same at the stern.
 

Regarding the additional annotations... I post the following with written permission of the author:
 
  I have taken a look at the contract in questions (ADT0009) and my conclusions are thus:   a) The original contract was written for Bellerophon (1786). The amendments date from 1805 and are irrelevant to the above vessel. c) The amendments relate to building ships of the Fame class (1799) that had been ordered in 1805 - of which there were 4, possibly 5 (date of the latter is uncertain). The additional dimensions match the Fame class.   I do not know why the Navy Office decided to reuse the contract as a specification for the Fame class, except that it may imply the Arrogant class and Fame class are more closely related than either David Lyon or Rif Winfield realised: the Arrogant class was designed by Slade and the Fame class by Henslow.   For the purposes of the Bellerophon project the 1805 additions can be ignored.   I hope that this makes sense. I have updated the Museum catalogue so it should go 'live' sometime.   Yours sincerely,   Jeremy Michell, MA Historic Photographs and Ships Plans Manager, National Maritime Museum

Close? ...............I can almost smell the wood!
For some reason completing the hull has got me a little anxious but, like everything else, I'll eventually plough through it
 
Not sure if I mentioned this before but I've always had to envision the part or assembly in my mind before I could draw it.  The exciting part is I can now see all the timbers sitting on the keel and the cant frames curling into the posts.  That is what excites me.
 
Thank you and everyone else for following, the helpful comments and the words of encouragement
(thank God for this forum, otherwise I'd likely be building a raft... and I'd get part of that wrong    )
 
After having moved my stations I've noticed the sketch points for the stem and stern post and the keel need to be realigned as I had not yet anchored them.  As I move them many seem to be falling into a  more proper place now.  Only half a zillion more to go.
 
Alan

Got an extremely quick response from Chris Watton suggesting all the penned annotations may have been a suggestion to lengthen the ship during a refit in 1805 but the idea was not implemented.
 
Considering it all history now.
 
I've moved my stations in my model and presently little seems to have been affected.
I will have to take some time to be sure, then clean up my keel, stem and stern post sketch, complete the hull and slice my timbers to make the templates.
There is a light at the end of the tunnel

I should expand the explanation
 
The (original TIFF and so) PDF images I was measuring off of are "stretched" (due to the original source) and so inaccurate as would be measuring off a (the) print. The lines on the PDF are a wee bit thick when I zoom in to measure so that probably doesn't help.
 
My Solidworks model reflects these inaccuracies and so lines are manipulated
 
If I were to trace off an imported image I get the same inaccuracies because the original image is stretched
 
If I stretch the CAD tracing I would make from the image the curvature/straightness of the lines are compromised and require manipulation
 
No matter what I do I've got to nudge things over and turn them about to make it look right and since I want to try to salvage what I've done to date ....
 
My NRG mentor suggested measuring off the print with dividers and so I've given it a try
It can't be any worse than what I've done so far and actually gives me repeatable dimensions where as the zooming in on the PDF to electronically measure rarely gives me the exact same dimension twice (a program tolerance issue)
 
I am doing it all on a reference sketch in DraftSight because I need a "clean sheet" and my SolidWorks model is too distracting so I keep it closed for now.
 
All will be transferred to the model once I get it straightened out.

Foremast Crows Feet Rigging
Over the last couple of days I have been working on adding the crows feet rigging to the foremast.
 
The first task was to add a 2mm single block to the top forestay.

The next task was to add another 2mm single block to the euphroe.

Next up was to rig the two blocks. I found it useful to use a clamp to hold the euphroe whilst adding the inter-block rigging.

Before I started to add the crows feet rigging I did map out the required path. I also calculated the required length of thread. I opted for a generous 2.2m length but in the end a length of 1.8m would have been sufficient.

It was then a case of following the required path as the rigging was added. I have added a few photo's taken of the work in progress.

The rigging is now complete and the free end is ready to be tied off. once I have adjusted the required and applied some tension.

I used a slip knot to secure the free end. The crows feet rigging is now complete.

 
 

Today I cut out the alignment dowel and the hoop forms. Removing the solid disks required making three or four radial cuts from the dowel hole to the hoop. Once the cuts were made, I cut remove each sector of the disc in turn. I think that there were only two disks that easily came out whole. So here is where the project is now:

Next will be to add some metal fasteners thru the stringers and into the hoops. The wire cross braces will then follow. Holes have been drilled for these details already.

Druxey,
 
That is what I originally thought... some ones thoughts scribbled on the contract. But there are so many other things ... the 1805 date for example. I usually love a puzzle and my darling wife (the super sleuth) has been doing what she does best ... looking for clues and finding additional info on the bankruptcy and the date of death for dear Mr. Edward Greaves.
 
I e-mailed my contact at NMM this morning to ask for help deciphering the contract notations and hope I have better luck with a response then the poor fellow I had provided the contact info to for quotes on plans elsewhere on this site.
 
I also asked my NRG mentor early yesterday and had not heard back from him as yet, I prefer to think he is working on it rather than him "having a life"!
 
I need to learn the virtue of patience!