Mast base and sail cloth for a J-Class Yacht?

[Markus16]

Dear forum members,

I‘m just building my first model kit and so there are lots of things for me to consider. One thing is if it would be fitting to use a brass mast base for my J-Class Rainbow.  I know that those yachts didn‘t use them and if someone tells me „for the type of ships with a mast base you’d better also build some cannon hatches“ of course I wouldn‘t.

Another thing is my consideration about the sail cloth. The quality of the included sail is awful (too shiny with large imprinted lines). I was thinking about sacrificing one of my old white dress shirts or taking taffeta. Does somebody of you know the material of those sails in the 1930‘s? Thanks for every good advice!

[allanyed]

Hi Markus,

What scale is your model?  High thread count cloth might work for a very large scale, 1:12 or maybe even 1:24.  Smaller than that, there is no woven cloth that will be to scale so you may want to consider some other material such as silk span.  If you decide you must use woven cloth, at normal scales, keep in mind that sewing seams will ruin the look as there is no way to make these to scale.  There are lot of well made models that are ruined  when rigged with sails and sewing that are not to scale.   This has been discussed extensively lately here at MSW so you will find a lot of good information if you do a search on sails and silk span in the various forums here at MSW.    

 

 

[Roger Pellett]

In the 1930’s the working sails would have been made from heavy weight cotton duck canvas.  Light air reaching jobs and spinnakers were made from Balloon Cloth  a light weight tightly woven cotton cloth.  

 

I agree with Allan that trying to find a cloth that works for sails at any reasonable model scale is impossible.  Silkspan is your best bet.  On the other hand, in my opinion, models of these large sloop rigged J Boats look great without sails.

 

Roger

Edited May 15, 2021 by Roger Pellett

[mnl]

Racing sails were generally Egyptian cotton. Cloth weight would depend on the amount of breeze the sail was designed for. The lighter the breeze the lighter the cloth. The goal was to minimize the weight aloft as that weight has a large moment arm.

[Markus16]

Thank you very much so far. I totally agree with Allan that a rough sail will ruin the sight of a filigree model. The scale of my ship is 1/80 and sewing the hem with a hemstitch foot will be another challenge for me. In Germany there’s a saying: You grow with your tasks.

[allanyed]

Markus, at 1:80 I would totally forget any sewing at all.  Go with silk span and you can mark the edges and panel seams with markers that have had the applicator tip trimmed with a razor to the right width (about 0.025" / 0.64mm)   There are doubtless many brands, but I have found Liquitex markers to work well and they come in a wide variety of colors so you can choose one that is just slightly darker than the sail itself.  If you go with silk span you will be painting them so you can make them white, off-white or any color you feel is the same as the real sails.   Be sure to use good quality tubed artist acrylics, not the cheap bottled paints.   There is more to it, but you can find details here on MSW, in David Antscherl's TFFM booklet on sail making for a few Euros from Seawatch Books (hurry on this one as this company will be shutting down in the not too distant future   https://www.seawatchbooks.com/ItemDisplay.php?sku=115003) and in a few online videos.  The best videos I found are in a three parts presentation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_m_VWzk4w8  When I used silk span I wound up using a combination of the methods given in the Antscherl booklet and the videos but you can find what works best for you.    

 

[Markus16]

Dear Allan, thank you very much for your reply. I‘ve watched some videos of Tom Lauria right now and they‘re really helpful. I‘m glad I found this forum, it‘s making things so much easier for a beginner and gives me a motivational boost. By the way, do you have an opinion about using a mast base for my Rainbow?

[allanyed]

Sorry Markus, I have no idea what was used where the mast passed through the deck on the 1930 version.   MAYBE you can get someone at the NY Yacht club to send you a photo of some of their J Class models as they have a LOT of them and some may be appropriate.  Their website has a contact email if I remember correctly.   Considering the year, it could very well have been set up with wedges as in the earlier days of sailing.   Even so, the wedges would likely have been covered with canvas so would appear as nothing more than a grayish ring around the mast where it passes through the deck.  At your scale this would probably look good.  If you are wanting something that actually supports the mast where it passes through the deck there should be partners between the beams (or bulkheads if your model is a POB build.)    IF this is the case, look at a number of the scratch build logs here at MSW that show the partners and wedges to get an idea.  Sorry I don't know of anything definitive but I am sure there are members here that would know what was actually used.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by allanyed

[Roger Pellett]

Markus,

 

The recently published biography of W. Starling Burgess, Rainbow’s designer includes a full page description of her mast.  (No Ordinary Being by Llewelyn Howland III, David R. Godine, Publisher, 2015)

 

For her 1934 America’s Cup defense, Rainbow was equipped with an Aluminum  mast with a “pear shaped” cross section.  The cross sectional dimensions were 30in fore and aft and 18in athwartships.  The mast was supported with bar shrouds.  So, not only is the kit mast step inaccurate but the round mast that would fit into it would be incorrect too.

 

Roger

Edited May 16, 2021 by Roger Pellett

[Markus16]

Dear Roger,

thank you very much for your reply. A pear shape would have been more appealing to me than a round one. I‘m pretty sure I‘m gonna search through this forum thorougly before starting my „Endeavour“ kit!

Since I‘m German I have to look several things up. You wrote about „bar shrouds“. The translation says it‘s cloth for wrapping corpses. Is that the correct translation?

[allanyed]

Sometimes most of us get to a point on a model where we want to wrap the model (corpse) in a shroud and bury it at sea.     

[mnl]

Bar shrouds must have been the old name for rod rigging.

[Markus16]

😂

[Markus16]

Hi mnl, thanks for your reply. The Smiley related to Allan!

I‘ve just ordered a few sheets of sailspan and a 8mm mast base. Looking forward to carry on building!

[Roger Pellett]

Yes,

 

Bar shrouds were another term for solid rigid rods instead of stranded wire rope.

 

The America’s Cup has always been and continues to be a test of the latest technology.