1956 Chris-Craft 54' Constellation by bcochran

[Ian_Grant]

Bob I wish I could help bit I have no idea why your rudder servo at least isn't working.

[bcochran]

19 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

Bob I wish I could help bit I have no idea why your rudder servo at least isn't working.

 I have a new ESC and I am going to connect everything outside the boat.  My guess is the servo will work!

 

I spoke too soon. The new ESC does not work. It is outside the boat, connected to the receiver and batteries.  I turn on the switch, the receiver comes on as it should. I turn on the transmitter and the LED of the receiver lights as it should  The fan on the ESC does not turn and the servo does not move.

 

I don't now what to try next.  I think I need a dual motor brushed 40amp ESC

Edited July 2 by bcochran

[Ian_Grant]

Bruce,

 

A brushed ESC should be able to run two identical brushed motors in parallel as long as their combined current draw is within ESC limits.

 

I still think the Viper ESC is a better part than those others. Did you follow the Viper ESC's calibration procedure? (given in the manual)

Place voltmeter probes across the PWR/GND pins (centre pin and outer pin) of the Rcvr's BATT connector when the LED is on; do you read 6V supplied from the ESC?

 

Your question about the 12V ESC range is interesting given that the NiMH packs will charge up to about 14.5V (hmmm). The ESC may be designed more for lead-acid batteries which are in fact 12V when charged. Try running with just one battery (6V) and see if it works.

 

Meanwhile |I will do some more digging on this.

 

Have you tried leaving the motors unconnected to see if the rudder works then?

 

It bothers me that the ESC fan does not turn, unless it only runs when the ESC is getting warm, maybe?

 

Again I urge you to try using a separate 6V battery to supply the Rcvr at the BATT terminal to see if the rudder then works. If so then pick one of your ESCs, cut the power wire on its Rcvr link, connect the motors, or just one motor at first if you like, and see if everything works now that RCVR supply is NOT the ESC.

Edited July 3 by Ian_Grant

[bcochran]

29 minutes ago, Ian_Grant said:

Bruce,

 

A brushed ESC should be able to run two identical brushed motors in parallel as long as their combined current draw is within ESC limits.

 

Have you tried leaving the motors unconnected to see if the rudder works then?

 

It bothers me that the ESC fan does not turn, unless it only runs when the ESC is getting warm, maybe?

 

Again I urge you to try using a separate 6V battery to supply the Rcvr at the BATT terminal to see if the rudder then works. If so then pick one of your ESCs, cut the power wire on its Rcvr link, connect the motors, or just one motor at first if you like, and see if everything works now that RCVR supply is NOT the ESC.

I will try what you suggest.  Way back when every  thing worked the fan stayed on.

Edited July 2 by bcochran

[Ian_Grant]

Bob,

 

Looking way back in your post #7, your original ESC model can be powered by 6-12 cell NiMH so the ESC input voltage (of those original ESCs, not the Viper, should not be a problem.

 

I will let you know what I find out about the Viper. I've asked the guys in my RC club, and Harbour Models.

 

Also, look at pg 19 of your GT3B manual "D/R Function". By any chance could you have set the channel 1 and 2 outputs to 0% ie no servo travel, while playing around with programming? The factory default is 100% which might explain why everything originally worked. ??

 

Similarly, pg 17 programs "end point adjustment" which if accidentally changed to 0% could also set servo travel to none.

Edited July 3 by Ian_Grant

[bcochran]

9 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

Bob,

 

Looking way back in your post #7, your original ESC model can be powered by 6-12 cell NiMH so the ESC input voltage (of those original ESCs, not the Viper, should not be a problem.

 

I will let you know what I find out about the Viper. I've asked the guys in my RC club, and Harbour Models.

 

Also, look at pg 19 of your GT3B manual "D/R Function". By any chance could you have set the channel 1 and 2 outputs to 0% ie no servo travel, while playing around with programming? The factory default is 100% which might explain why everything originally worked. ??

 

Similarly, pg 17 programs "end point adjustment" which if accidentally changed to 0% could also set servo travel to none.

I would guess that I am doing something wrong since I have trouble with all the ESCs.  I just don't know what.  AS to the Viper, it has only one battery connection. How do I go about using one battery?  I do feel guilty about the GT3B because I was trying to set the end points when things started to go bad. Also when the servo tried to work with the other ESCs it barely moved then quit moving.

[bcochran]

Is it normal for r/c boat owners to have this much trouble ?

 

it is hard for me to accept that 4 ESCs that I have tried do not work.  Yet there is nothing mysterious about my boat. Just two 7.4 volt battery packs, an ESC, a receiver and a servo. All connections to ESC and batteries are keyed. I followed instruction on where to plug the ESC and servo to the receiver. Batteries are charged.

Edited July 3 by bcochran

[Ian_Grant]

2 minutes ago, bcochran said:

Is it normal for r/c boat owners to have this much trouble ?

 

it is hard for me to accept that 4 ESCs that I have tried do not work.  Yet there is nothing mysterious about my boat. Just two battery packs, an ESC, a receiver and a servo. All connections to ESC and batteries are keyed. I followed instruction on where to plug the ESC and servo to the receiver. Batteries are charged.

No, it is not normal at all. It's going to be something silly.

 

Can you take a photo of your wired connections out of the boat?

[Ian_Grant]

2 hours ago, bcochran said:

I would guess that I am doing something wrong since I have trouble with all the ESCs.  I just don't know what.  AS to the Viper, it has only one battery connection. How do I go about using one battery?  I do feel guilty about the GT3B because I was trying to set the end points when things started to go bad. Also when the servo tried to work with the other ESCs it barely moved then quit moving.

Bruce

 

This makes me wonder how you are connecting your two batteries to ESC's.  You want to have your batteries in series; I assume they each have a 2-pin connector? You need to have the +ve of one connected direct to the -ve of the other. The second pin on each connector should connect to the ESC. This would require some wire snipping and splicing, but you'll want to keep the 2-pin connectors on the battery leads whole for charging. Don't you need to make up a special harness to achieve this, or did Big Mack supply something? Here is a picture. Upper half shows the electrical connection you want. Lower half shows how to do it without cutting your battery wires - make up the harness circled. Do you have something like this?

 

[bcochran]

7 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

Bruce

 

This makes me wonder how you are connecting your two batteries to ESC's.  You want to have your batteries in series; I assume they each have a 2-pin connector? You need to have the +ve of one connected direct to the -ve of the other. The second pin on each connector should connect to the ESC. This would require some wire snipping and splicing, but you'll want to keep the 2-pin connectors on the battery leads whole for charging. Don't you need to make up a special harness to achieve this, or did Big Mack supply something? Here is a picture. Upper half shows the electrical connection you want. Lower half shows how to do it without cutting your battery wires - make up the harness circled. Do you have something like this?

 

I have a harness that takes care of that.  The connectors are keyed so I don't think I can connect them wrong. The battery plugs are male.The Y harness to the ESC is male and the plugs to the battery are female.

Edited July 4 by bcochran

[Ian_Grant]

Bruce

 

That looks correct.

 

In other news, I must apologize for my Viper recommendation. Although the datasheet says NiMH and NiCAD can be used, it is really designed for lead-acid batteries. I got the following feedback from Harbour Models:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Ian,

The Viper line of speed controls are only compatible with SLA (sealed lead acid) batteries and can handle the extra voltage when fully charged. 

 

The ViperHV line can handle 12-24V and is compatible with SLA, LiPO, NiMH, NiCad.

 

The TIO line is made for 6-12V for use with LiPO, NiMH, NiCad. - This is the line you should be using for the description of your battery described.

 

Sincerely,
Nick Jacalone
Harbor Models
626 963 4591

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

A couple of RC club members that use Vipers use them with gel-cell lead-acid batteries.

 

 

I think it would be worth a quick test with one battery to see if we're barking up the right tree.

[bcochran]

14 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

Bruce

 

That looks correct.

 

In other news, I must apologize for my Viper recommendation. Although the datasheet says NiMH and NiCAD can be used, it is really designed for lead-acid batteries. I got the following feedback from Harbour Models:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Ian,

The Viper line of speed controls are only compatible with SLA (sealed lead acid) batteries and can handle the extra voltage when fully charged. 

 

The ViperHV line can handle 12-24V and is compatible with SLA, LiPO, NiMH, NiCad.

 

The TIO line is made for 6-12V for use with LiPO, NiMH, NiCad. - This is the line you should be using for the description of your battery described.

 

Sincerely,
Nick Jacalone
Harbor Models
626 963 4591

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

A couple of RC club members that use Vipers use them with gel-cell lead-acid batteries.

 

 

I think it would be worth a quick test with one battery to see if we're barking up the right tree.

The fact that you are taking the time to help me is much appreciated.

[Ian_Grant]

Bruce,

 

One further idea worth trying: return the Transmitter to factory settings to reverse anything you may have programmed that could lead to problems. Don't see anything about this in the manual, but googling it results in the following two pieces of advice.

 

"Power on the TX, then simultaneously turn the wheel right and press the BACK button. This will clear all model memories."

 

"Press the BACK and END buttons simultaneously for three seconds. This will reset the GT3B"

 

You're welcome for my "help" such as it has been. The engineer in me wants to solve problems.

 

Did you try powering from one battery pack?

[Ian_Grant]

Bruce, not to deluge you with messages and confuse you; I an not satisfied with input received about ESC input voltages so I have sent a query to the horse's mouth, Mtroniks, themselves. Response TBD.

[bcochran]

On 7/4/2024 at 3:27 PM, Ian_Grant said:

Bruce, not to deluge you with messages and confuse you; I an not satisfied with input received about ESC input voltages so I have sent a query to the horse's mouth, Mtroniks, themselves. Response TBD.

I haven't tried anything yet.    I don't know what to do about getting the right ESC.   I look on line but get confused.

 

[Ian_Grant]

From what I am reading now, Viper ESC quality seemed to decrease a few years ago and many people switched to MACK, which is what you bought originally. There's no way all four ESC's are bad; it's something else. By the way, I PM'ed you to say that the MACK spec sheet lists up to 12-cell NiMH so they should be ok with what you have.

[bcochran]

On 7/5/2024 at 7:03 PM, Ian_Grant said:

From what I am reading now, Viper ESC quality seemed to decrease a few years ago and many people switched to MACK, which is what you bought originally. There's no way all four ESC's are bad; it's something else. By the way, I PM'ed you to say that the MACK spec sheet lists up to 12-cell NiMH so they should be ok with what you have.

I tell myself that it can't be all ESCs are bad.   If I connect the batteries to the ESC and the fan does not spin it looks to me that it is not working right.  and when I plug them into the receiver there is no control of the servo and the LED on the receiver stars blinking on and off, I have assumed the ESC is bad. What else can cause that? I think I will call M.A.C.K. tomorrow and talk to him.

Edited July 9 by bcochran

[bcochran]

This is the latest ESC that I bought. The first time I flip the switch it worked as it should for 30 seconds then shut down. The fan was spinning and a led in the bottom was lit. 

 

 

As the video shows it will not work. 

[bcochran]

 This is the first ESC that I bought from M.A.C.K.  It looks like it is working. The video shows the fan spinning. 
I'll hook it up to the receiver tomorrow. Stay tuned

   

 

 

 

 

Edited July 9 by bcochran

[Ian_Grant]

Bruce, I got a reply from Mtroniks. He repeats my suggestion to try running on a lower voltage (ie one battery) to eliminate over-voltage shutdown from the theory list although he says it should run nonetheless. His contact info is at the end should you wish to discuss.

 

============================================================================

Hi Ian,

 Sorry you sound to be having an issue with our products.

 First of all, yes, a Viper Marine40 should be ok running the two motors you describe.

Secondly, the Viper controllers will run on Lead Acid, NiMH or NiCAD cells. NOT Lipo cells.

Lastly the Viper controllers do not have over voltage lock out so I doubt this is the problem you are seeing.

 What voltage are you trying to run it on?

Have you tried it on a lower voltage and it works?

 If you can answer these questions for me, I’ll see if we can get you going again.

I hope that we have helped you with your enquiry, if we have, would you mind clicking on the link below to add a review on google? We don’t have many reviews and it would help us with our online profile. If not, no problem at all!

https://www.google.com/search?q=mtroniks+reviews&rlz=1C1VDKB_en-GBGB985GB985&oq=mtroniks+reviews&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIGCAEQRRhA0gEINDk1NGowajSoAgCwAgE&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Best regards,

Paul Kenningley

Mtroniks Ltd

 Tel:  0044(0)1943 461482

http://www.mtroniks.net

[bcochran]

22 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

Bruce, I got a reply from Mtroniks. He repeats my suggestion to try running on a lower voltage (ie one battery) to eliminate over-voltage shutdown from the theory list although he says it should run nonetheless. His contact info is at the end should you wish to discuss.

 

============================================================================

Hi Ian,

 Sorry you sound to be having an issue with our products.

 First of all, yes, a Viper Marine40 should be ok running the two motors you describe.

Secondly, the Viper controllers will run on Lead Acid, NiMH or NiCAD cells. NOT Lipo cells.

Lastly the Viper controllers do not have over voltage lock out so I doubt this is the problem you are seeing.

 What voltage are you trying to run it on?

Have you tried it on a lower voltage and it works?

 If you can answer these questions for me, I’ll see if we can get you going again.

I hope that we have helped you with your enquiry, if we have, would you mind clicking on the link below to add a review on google? We don’t have many reviews and it would help us with our online profile. If not, no problem at all!

https://www.google.com/search?q=mtroniks+reviews&rlz=1C1VDKB_en-GBGB985GB985&oq=mtroniks+reviews&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIGCAEQRRhA0gEINDk1NGowajSoAgCwAgE&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Best regards,

Paul Kenningley

Mtroniks Ltd

 Tel:  0044(0)1943 461482

http://www.mtroniks.net

I am running on two 7.4 battery packs

[bcochran]

My M.A.C.K, ESC looks like it is ok with just the battery plugged in to it.  When i plug it into the receiver it stops running.

 

I don't have the desire or motivation to keep trying things and getting disappointed.  The equipment I have and the setup I have just doesn't work! I have 4 different ESCs. nothing is working with either.  I shouldn't have to try this and try that. I should be able to buy some equipment follow the directions and things work.  I have battery operated G scale trains that I installed the battery electronics and they work.  I have DCC ho model trains and I install the decoders and program them and they work.  But this R/C boat has kicked my ***!

Edited July 12 by bcochran

[shipman]

On 7/12/2024 at 3:56 PM, bcochran said:

My M.A.C.K, ESC looks like it is ok with just the battery plugged in to it.  When i plug it into the receiver it stops running.

 

I don't have the desire or motivation to keep trying things and getting disappointed.  The equipment I have and the setup I have just doesn't work! I have 4 different ESCs. nothing is working with either.  I shouldn't have to try this and try that. I should be able to buy some equipment follow the directions and things work.  I have battery operated G scale trains that I installed the battery electronics and they works.  I have DCC ho model trains and I install the decoders and program them and they work.  But this R/C boat has kicked my ***!

Got to admire your tenacity, Bruce.

If it were mine, after all your trouble, it would have been beaten to dust with the heaviest hammer I could lift by now!

Edited July 16 by shipman
correction

[bcochran]

14 minutes ago, shipman said:

Got to admire your tenacity, Bruce.

If it were mine, after all your trouble, it would have been beaten to dust with the heaviest hammer I could lift buy now!

Thanks shipman

Edited July 12 by bcochran

[Ian_Grant]

Bruce, now we're getting somewhere with diagnosing the problem. Don't quit just yet!!

 

Either the ESC -to-Rcvr plug is the wrong way round (which doesn't seem to be the case in your photos) or somehow its BEC (battery eliminator circuit) cannot supply the Rcvr with 5V, or 6V, whichever.

 

Two simple steps to take:

 

1) With batteries connected to ESC, use a voltmeter to measure across the red and blk/bwn leads of the Rcvr plug. Verify voltage and that the red lead is +ve. Now you know the BEC is at least working under no-load condition.

 

2)  If that looks ok, plug into the Rcvr (ensuring that -ve is at the outside edge of the Rcvr) with no servo. Now use the voltmeter to measure across the centre and outside pins of any one of the accessible Rcvr connectors (BATT, the rudder channel). If no voltage then the BEC isn't working under load. Again, the centre pin should be +ve.

 

Finally, if this is the case, get a little battery holder for four AA batteries and solder a standard 3-pin RC connector at its wire outputs (best to include a little switch). Plug this into the Rcvr's BATT connector, BUT BEFORE powering up, cut the red centre lead of the ESC-Rcvr cable; you DO NOT want it clashing with the external battery pack. This must work with at least one of your Rcvrs or I'll eat my hat.

 

Here is an example battery holder:

https://www.amazon.com/LAMPVPATH-Battery-Holder-Leads-Wires/dp/B07T7MTRZX/ref=sr_1_6?crid=2J7GEUHX775AW&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.xvysxN_iwRmZnDEIHaH0CstSi3dF1HSfoF64pfb4G2tttBIPg0VxFVjJR0UwftMVyg4vJJHcYGGdetzkpppLsWqped1FA3CkjsAqlbc5Rr0LOjOKGpoiT-mB1aA0SEhB-M2pj6GKi0uEuy_3kiswj1T5W3rNjmbOp1J-tJFlvZ22T1W8Mbuml-xjj6n5-IdrrTKgn3p3ETjERVmqHgB350LGuV54xgiqTUxvx1AKUvk.xR0jyb8jDBbU7ZeeAPU-as1qKxkgYF-ooXapWKszepU&dib_tag=se&keywords=aa+battery+holder&qid=1720799675&sprefix=aa+battery+holder%2Caps%2C151&sr=8-6

[bcochran]

On 7/12/2024 at 9:01 AM, Ian_Grant said:

Bruce, now we're getting somewhere with diagnosing the problem. Don't quit just yet!!

 

Either the ESC -to-Rcvr plug is the wrong way round (which doesn't seem to be the case in your photos) or somehow its BEC (battery eliminator circuit) cannot supply the Rcvr with 5V, or 6V, whichever.

 

Two simple steps to take:

 

1) With batteries connected to ESC, use a voltmeter to measure across the red and blk/bwn leads of the Rcvr plug. Verify voltage and that the red lead is +ve. Now you know the BEC is at least working under no-load condition.

 

2)  If that looks ok, plug into the Rcvr (ensuring that -ve is at the outside edge of the Rcvr) with no servo. Now use the voltmeter to measure across the centre and outside pins of any one of the accessible Rcvr connectors (BATT, the rudder channel). If no voltage then the BEC isn't working under load. Again, the centre pin should be +ve.

 

Finally, if this is the case, get a little battery holder for four AA batteries and solder a standard 3-pin RC connector at its wire outputs (best to include a little switch). Plug this into the Rcvr's BATT connector, BUT BEFORE powering up, cut the red centre lead of the ESC-Rcvr cable; you DO NOT want it clashing with the external battery pack. This must work with at least one of your Rcvrs or I'll eat my hat.

 

Here is an example battery holder:

https://www.amazon.com/LAMPVPATH-Battery-Holder-Leads-Wires/dp/B07T7MTRZX/ref=sr_1_6?crid=2J7GEUHX775AW&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.xvysxN_iwRmZnDEIHaH0CstSi3dF1HSfoF64pfb4G2tttBIPg0VxFVjJR0UwftMVyg4vJJHcYGGdetzkpppLsWqped1FA3CkjsAqlbc5Rr0LOjOKGpoiT-mB1aA0SEhB-M2pj6GKi0uEuy_3kiswj1T5W3rNjmbOp1J-tJFlvZ22T1W8Mbuml-xjj6n5-IdrrTKgn3p3ETjERVmqHgB350LGuV54xgiqTUxvx1AKUvk.xR0jyb8jDBbU7ZeeAPU-as1qKxkgYF-ooXapWKszepU&dib_tag=se&keywords=aa+battery+holder&qid=1720799675&sprefix=aa+battery+holder%2Caps%2C151&sr=8-6

Ian,

Is it usually the case that someone in the r/c boat hobby has to do all that?

 

[bcochran]

Ian and all of you who helped me here thank you very  much.  It isn't often that I've  had so many people put as much energy into helping me with my projects.

 

Sorry to say I have moved on from R/C boats.  It just hasn't been any fun trying to get this thing to run right. Maybe in the future I will get the boat off the shelf again and try what Ian has suggested and it will work right.