Posting Images of Instructions for Out of Production Kits?

[PlasticShipwright21]

I have a question: is posting kit instructions for out of production kits allowable? I'm working on a build log of the old Pyro\Lifelike Gertrude L Thebaud, which to the best of my knowledge hasn't been reproduced since the 1980s. I assume that one cannot post the instructions to kits currently in production as this would violate copyright, but what about kits that are out of production? I'd like to be able to post some images of the instructions for other members to see, both for historical\future reference and to get their opinion on them (in case they know of better techniques than the instructions recommend for building the ship). I'm not sure who even owns the copyrights to things produced by Lifelike, I know some Pyro kits have been reproduced but these do not seem to include the higher detail ones like the Thebaud suggesting those molds and related copyrights are in limbo? 

[ccoyle]

The four guiding principles that are used in a court of law to determine if copyright has been violated are as follows (comments regarding your specific example are included in parentheses):

1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes (your use would be nonprofit and educational in nature);
2. the nature of the copyrighted work (copyright protects "highly creative" works -- instructions are unlikely to be considered "highly creative");
3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole (you're probably not intending to post the entire set of instructions);
4. and the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work (your sharing of the instructions will have exactly zero financial effect on the original IP owner if the kit is OOP).

Only a court can make a final determination, and only if the IP owner decides to drag you into court to defend his IP, but from here it looks like you're good to go.

[Jaager]

A Google chase seems to lead to the following:   Pyro -> Life-Like -> Walthers

 

My guess is that the copyrights went along with the sale of the companies.  Walthers has some HO, N, O scale diorama style ship models.  Even though nothing like the Gertrude is in their current inventory, they may not be in favor of you giving away total information that is not yours to give.  For what you have questions about,  the isolated relevant sections should fall into fair use category.  Posting just those parts should be a benefit.  A whole set of plastic model plans  would only be of value to those who have the kit and they should already have them.   Otherwise it is just esoteric and a waste of bandwidth.  I do not think that this web site is setup to store large size files of ship plans - unless it is part of a group project.

 

 

The Gertrude is one of the subjects in H.I.C.'s American Fishing Schooners.   The two plans in the book are available from The S.I. for $10 each and are large scale.  The book also has a section that features extensive details for the schooners.

[Scottish Guy]

An interesting point here, as far as I´m aware some rights on intellectual content are not lasting endless.

 

The different time spans that I´m aware of are...

• 70 yrs for written content (dramatic, musical or artistic) after death of author
• 70 yrs for films / movies after death of director, screenplay author and composer
• 70 yrs for recorded work (music / sound) after publishing 1st time
• 50 yrs for bradcasts after the 1st broadcasting
• 25 yrs for layout of published editions of written, dramatic or musical work after 1st time of publishing
• 20 yrs for patents (must be applied for and being granted) most boat designs don´t fall under the patent rights because they don´t meet the required uniqueness and conditions. A patent only protects technical Inventions / functions but not designs. After 20 yrs the patent becomes public domain.
• 14 yrs for design patents (must be applied for and being granted), protects only original aspects of the appearance, not the functional aspects of the construction. The design becomes public domain after 14 yrs.
• 10 yrs by the Vessel Design Protection Act (USA - not EU as far as I know). Registration must be applied for and being granted. You can only use either the VDPA or a Design Patent for the hull, not both. Covers the hull and deck if sufficiently unique. Also only currently on sale and designed hulls are protected / published made available to the public (after 28th October 1998). After the 10 yrs period the design becomes public domain.

Therefore some of the older models and plans don´t fall under an protection at all (when my understanding of those regulations and laws is correct. Please correct me when I´m wrong. It also is not helpful that the regulations and laws differ between the USA and Europe / Asia.

 

Even the Smithonian Institute sells plans of ancient ships with the only legal statement saying that they don´t take any responsibility for the outcome what you are building from this plans ^^

 

Unfortunately some European countries (like the UK) don´t have any protective regulations for boat / ship designs since they don´t count as intellectual content that is protective since the designs and shapes way to equal. That again is a difference between the USA and Europe, we don´t have the V(essel) D(esign) P(rotection) A(ct) here.

 

Micha