Another 'spin' on a ropewalk

[Dziadeczek]

Did anyone try to twist a 4 strand rope with a central core (either out of a thinner thread or a thin wire)?

I have an old ropewalk I build long time ago, similar in principles to a ropewalk by Phil Krol (see attachment), but my cone (traveller) is suspended on two fishing lines extended between centers, instead of a small  cart on a rail, so I can extend the distance between both centers easier, depending on the max length of this line.

Like in the design by Russ Long from Ship Modelers Association -  Ship Modelers Association - Tip of the Month

My ropewalk doesn't have a second rotating center that forms ropes in the direction opposite to the 3(4) twirls, instead it has a fishing twirly that spins freely, thus forming the rope.

I am thinking about adopting my ropewalk to making a 3 or 4 strand ropes, BUT WITH A CENTRAL CORE (thread or wire). I had mixed results twisting a 4 strand ropes (some are better, other not so good), until I found out that the reason for this is the fact, that with 4 stranded ropes there is a slightly bigger empty space in the middle and the strands tend to collapse into it, - so to speak -, resulting in uneven twists. I want to fill that space with such a core.

I already drilled a center hole through the cone and tried to insert there a length of thin wire, but the strands tend to twist around it excessively resulting in a very ugly rope. I also noticed that the central wire tends to rotate spontaneously on its own, opposite to the rotation of all strands and would have to be suspended absolutely perfectly to do it freely (which is impossible, I am afraid).

I remember there was a discussion on this exact topic on the now defunct Seaways list, but I lost this topic, unfortunately...

 

Is such a modification of my type of a ropewalk even possible? What do I have to do?

ropewalk by Phil Krol.pdf

Edited March 5 by Dziadeczek

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  Its possible that a rope core on a 4 strand setup needs a twist opposite the the strands laid over it.  Its risky to bodge with the topper you have, so try and make a test one to fool around with.  'Don't know if either rope source on MSW offers 4  strand scale rope, but if they do - I'd go for that.

[Gregory]

I have that type of rope walk and have considered trying to use a wire core to make it easier to fashion foot ropes and such. 

I fail to see a good reason for using a rope core, other than increasing the diameter of the the rope, and that can be done with additional strands or yarns, or bigger thread.

 

Because the rope contracts as it is laying up, the wire would have to be free floating and shorter than the starting length of the strands.  I would have to experiment with how to accomplish that, if at all.

Edited March 5 by Gregory

[Dziadeczek]

My ropewalk has the possibility to twist 4 stranded ropes (as well as 3 stranded ones) and I tried many times to twist 3 and/or 4 stranded ropes on it.

The 3 stranded ones come perfect, but the 4 stranded not so - for the above mentioned reason.

So, after drilling a center hole through the cone (where the grooves meet) and inserting a thin wire through it, I noticed that such a 4 str. rope comes very ugly - the strands get excessively twisted, form many small knots before they decide to twist around each other to form a rope. At the same time, the central core (wire) wants to rotate in the direction opposite to the direction of rotation of all strands, but because it is only loosely inserted in between the strands, this rotation gets uneven and in bursts. So, the whole rope comes out terrible.

There has to be a different, perfect way of suspending the core wire which has to be very straight, like all thread strands, and only than the whole thing can form a rope.

The reason I wanted to make such a rope (with a center wire) is, that the wire core would allow me to form more natural ways of sagging of certain ropes on my models rather than all of them stretched straight...

[Gregory]

5 minutes ago, Dziadeczek said:

The 3 stranded ones come perfect, but the 4 stranded not so - for the above mentioned reason.

Are you saying you have trouble with 4 strands without a core?

[Dziadeczek]

4 hours ago, Gregory said:

Are you saying you have trouble with 4 strands without a core?

please read my two previous posts

As I mentioned, when I twist a 4 stranded rope (with no core), sometimes the strands jump over others, sometimes the twists are a bit irregular, uneven, in places individual strands collapse into this empty space in the center of the rope - end result, the rope looks bad.

I am trying to improve the overall results, and I am slowly inching toward my goal, but I think I have to fill this empty space with a core to make the rope even. I don't know if I will be able to use a thin wire for that, or just a thinner 5th strand mounted in the center. 

I will try both.

In the meantime, I attach a pic with two ropes I made today from 4 strands each with no core. Their thickness is about 1 mm (1/64 inch).

I used some cheap cotton I had handy at the moment.

 

Back to the drawing board...   🤔

Edited March 6 by Dziadeczek

[Gregory]

That rope looks very good.

 

My experience has been that irregular laying up occurs if I don’t have tight, equal tension on all the strands.

 

You have inspired me to experiment with a wire core.  I'll let you know what happens.