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Posted (edited)

Ok, let's talk about something we guys know more about: ze big guns.

Or at least we think we do.

In the past, model guns were mostly rotational pieces, and only larger-scale models were retrofitted with details such as ignition pans and coats of arms. These were custom-made or complex castings. With the printing the excuse of the effort involved no longer applies. That's why I finally finished the new guns for my Victory.

And here starts a new point of discussion about how to present the guns. Not saying that the classical we usually show is wrong, but as an opener for mind and possibilities. Just to stir things up 😉

The version we usually show is with an exposed touch hole and without a tompion is simply how we know these things from museums and recovered from wrecks long time ago.

But in real seafaring life this appearance was probably rather rare, it was probably mostly different:
There are enough orders, records and wreck finds that describe the guns as most of the times ‘loaded’ during the period of 1800 and before. This also means that the powder charge stored inside the barrel had to be protected from water and moisture. For this purpose, tompions, simple wooden turned parts, were used as plugs at the front. They can be seen in many paintings, mostly white.

The sensitive touch hole also had to be protected. Lead covers were used for this purpose, which protected the touch hole of dirt and, if the gun was equipped with one, the gunlock, and above all protected the hole against fire and sparks.

When the gun was made ready for battle, the tompion was removed as late as possible and the cover of the touch hole was removed also only shortly before the shot was to be fired.

Thus, in real life, there were mainly the following 2 conditions:
- Stowed, lashed down, run out with cover over the touch hole or gunlock and with tompion
- Shortly before firing, without cover over the touch hole or gunlock and without tompion

Here we have the triad of touch hole, gunlock and cover in comparison:

Victory-Guns-250810_3393.jpg.739aa796ed6d75e045e7eaf039c99711.jpg
Victory-Guns-250810_3400.jpg.f28003af01e283abf5c741fcd6d01a3a.jpg


And here are the five gun sizes required for the Victory:
32-pounder medium lower battery deck, 24-pounder medium middle battery deck, 12-pounder long upper battery deck, 12-pounder medium aft, 12-pounder short quarterdeck.


The classic ‘pure’ representation with open touch hole
 

Victory-Guns-250810_3481.jpg.3ae3738c9c7260fc70095e8a5df95d4e.jpg
Victory-Guns-250810_3491.jpg.a1b7e2e550e58b0f866ce9e6fff082fc.jpg
Victory-Guns-250810_3500.jpg.643ada07a3edcfe29410ede5ab2257c0.jpg

With gun lock. It is worth considering that the tompion could also be set if the enemy is not yet within firing range.
 

Victory-Guns-250810_3449.jpg.f759227b9e86677143da0a28b98a29a7.jpg
Victory-Guns-250810_3460.jpg.7ca918e05dc2b879ec2251879a0aa08d.jpg
Victory-Guns-250810_3471.jpg.eb1aca9a85c937e43cc65c69e8ccc144.jpg

And with cover and tompion.
Victory-Guns-250810_3414.jpg.6daffdb15ab9e214048e5f581812f767.jpg

Victory-Guns-250810_3422.jpg.e73a8a3d17deeecbb62f0e1f725d3cdb.jpg
Victory-Guns-250810_3444.jpg.97426894d38048d7a33caf04f920b5b5.jpg


I adapted the colour of the lead covers to the artefacts from Thorsminde. The same applies to the fastening holes. This also results in the rear fastening via the ring, as all other types of fastening would slip off.
The colours of the tompions – natural wood, white, red – are taken from the artefacts and paintings and should, of course, be uniform on the model. The wood-coloured ones were probably the most common, as the tompions were carried as prefabricated spindles in sets of about a dozen and simply sawed off as needed. I doubt that they were painted every time.


Side discussion:
Also this involves in my humble opinion the presentation of the tackles. If stowed it is clear that those have to be properly set to hold the gun, plenty of drawings show this. If ran out but gun secured (Touch hole and muzzle protected) those tackles should be secured too but probably not laying on deck. If ran out for "clear for action“ (touchhole and possibly muzzle protected) the tackles should be open, but secured on the carriage, the free ends in a way that it wont become knotted. And just straight before the shot: no muzzle, gunlock or vent hole open and the tackles be held by the crew.

Is there any place for the nice spirals we like to show, especially with an tackle not made fast? Try this in real life and the guns will run amok at the first wave ...


To sum the theme up, here are two scale pictures of the barrels shown above  🙂
 

Victory-Guns-250810_3518.jpg.34c9d75535319883ccf5a6dd68ead38c.jpg
Victory-Guns-250810_3524.jpg.ad27d918da95fbfb0518ce1ccd50ff2c.jpg

Enjoy 🙂

XXXDAn

Edited by dafi

To victory and beyond! http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/76-hms-victory-by-dafi-to-victory-and-beyond/

See also our german forum for Sailing Ship Modeling and History: http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/

Finest etch parts for HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller Kit), USS Constitution 1:96 (Revell) and other useful bits.

http://dafinismus.de/index_en.html

Posted

Very  nice, Dafi. However, the guns I've seen that were fitted with locks had their mounting holes offset on the right edge of the pan (the rectangular raised area that the vent hole was bored through) as seen from the breech end. The gunlock was mounted there with two thumbscrews.

 

Early gunlocks were experimented with in the late 1720's by the French and were in general use by the British by the late 1780's (Caruana).

Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series  http://trafalgar.tv

Posted (edited)

Thank you very much druxey.

 

I took the orientation from the picts of Victory´s guns, but without this hint the side shift wasn´t to realise for me. Too much black barrel around 😉

 

victory-kanonen10.jpg.3d4fa7e63e0d3ab28a1202692152d441.jpg

 

No problem to move to the side. The advantage of printing.

 

So the artefact in Thorsminde also could be complet? I always guessed that one side broke off. But seen the assymetrical position it could be still intact?

Thorsminde_5290.jpg.0e9e5f0a031c2640a6e407eaae31c933.jpg

XXXDAn

 

Edited by dafi

To victory and beyond! http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/76-hms-victory-by-dafi-to-victory-and-beyond/

See also our german forum for Sailing Ship Modeling and History: http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/

Finest etch parts for HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller Kit), USS Constitution 1:96 (Revell) and other useful bits.

http://dafinismus.de/index_en.html

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