Next "Intermediate Kit"

[Bigj1632]

Hi All,

 

Relatively new to wood ship modeling, but I've almost completed the Model Expo three boat series for learning and was wondering about my next project.  I was looking at the Model Shipways Rattlesnake, but it appears from build logs that this could be a little above my level and I'm wondering if I would be better off with something from Vanguard, Occre, or Artesania Latina.  I'd definitely like something a little more challenging, but not a project that will turn into kindling out of frustration.  Thanks all for the advice!

[markjay]

Vanguard, would be a good cchoice  Best plans on the block.

[palmerit]

I'd recommend a Vanguard model 100%. Great materials, great instructions, great design, great finished product. I did the Model Shipways three model (Shipwright Series) kits and they're a great experience. Building something like the Vanguard Sherbourne will be completely different. For example, the Dory, Pram, and Smack do not have the kind of strip planking that larger ships have - that's a whole other skill. The rigging on the Sherbourne is "novice" but way more complex than the Pram or Smack (Dory has no rigging). I've also built the Vanguard Ranger and am currently building the Vanguard Zulu, both of which are also "novice" kits. Still challenging.

 

I haven't built an Occre (have one in my stash) or AL. I think Vanguard's engineering (design) is much better. I saw a YouTube video of someone building an Occre kit and the frame rattled like castanets. The frame on a Vanguard hull is like a tank. The Vanguard instructions are also the best. Not just arguably. They're the best.

 

Another great thing about Vanguard kits is that you have a great YouTube build series by Jason on Modelkit Stuff. He did the Sherbourne. He's currently doing another "novice" Vangard kits that's the somewhat smaller little sister to the Ranger and Zulu (all "fishing" boats - but larger boats, almost ships, compared to the Model Shipwright small boats you built).

 

I originally bought - in my stash - the Vanguard Duchess of Kingston to be my second kit (my first was the Sherbourne but built the Model Shipwright boats and the NRG half hull in parallel). I now realize while I could have built it (after the Sherbourne and the Model Shipwright boats) it was a far better decision to build some additional novice Vanguard models. After the Zulu, I have the Erycina in my stash (an "amateur" kit). From what I've seen of a current build of the Erycina, it's a more challenging hull from the novice kits. I'm probably going to do the Grecian and maybe the Adder (also "amateur" kits).

 

With each of these, I've tried to hone some skills. Like on the Zulu, I worked harder to get the planking right. So I've been able to leave the top part of the planking bare (shellaced and varnished) wood rather than painting it. I'm also going to be using Syren rope and blocks rather than the kit-supplied ones (which are very good in Vanguard kits - much better than anything in a Model Expo kit - just not as high end as the Syren products).

 

I have the Model Shipworld Syren in my stash (my sons bought it for me). It was designed by Chuck Passaro and has great instructions - I'll probably replace a ton of the wood and all of the rope and blocks. I'm not ready for that kit because it requires a ton of scratch building. I think the Rattlesnake is the same. 

 

I like working on kits right now that might take months to build so I can try things and hone my skills and some of my models have turned out better than others. I think something like the Rattlesnake or Syren or other large models (Constitution or Victory) are multi-year endeavors that I'm going to wait to tackle until maybe retirement.

Edited 23 hours ago by palmerit

[ccoyle]

So that we don't sound completely like a Vanguard Fan Boy club (and there is no argument that Chris is on the cutting edge of kit design), allow me to toss out a couple of items for consideration:

• You are wise to forego Rattlesnake in favor of a simpler subject. Something with a single mast, like the aforementioned cutters or fishing vessels, is a good step up.
• Depending on how you feel about different kinds of hull construction other than the usual strip planking, there are some other options. One is kits with pre-spiled planking from companies like Master Korabel or Falkonet. I'm building one such kit now, MK's Phoenix. You can see what this method of construction looks like by checking my build log (link in signature). I will say up front that MK's instructions, being translated from Russian by a non-native English speaker, can be a bit torturous to decipher, but they have very good pictorial instructions as well. Another company, Shipyard, offers several wooden kits that are based on traditional card modeling methods -- they're a sort of hybrid construction method. Everything in the kit is laser-cut. I have built one of their kits, the Wütender Hund. Shipyard also includes pictorial instructions, and they are quite good.
• Vanguard is definitely top of the heap for strip-planked kits, but -- if you find a subject that you really like from another company, don't be entirely put off by the prospect of having to wrestle with a kit that may not have the best materials or instructions. With three completed builds under your belt and the help of the vast quantity of experience represented on MSW, you probably have the skills needed to overcome such challenges.

Have fun deciding!

[GrandpaPhil]

I would recommend a ship with one or two masts such as cog, cutter, schooner or brigantine.  My first completed actually planked model was an AL Bounty Jolly Boat.  My first completed actual ship was an MS Sultana, a Colonial Era schooner.

Edited 9 hours ago by GrandpaPhil

[LoydB]

I am reasonably certain that I will never buy a kit from anyone but Vanguard in the future. You cannot go wrong with one from there you like. He has them broken up by skill level, very helpful.

[palmerit]

To be clear, I do look forward to someday working on a kit (like the Model Shipways - Chuck Passaro - Syren in my stash) that requires a lot more scratch building. For example, on many Vanguard kits, you get a beautiful etched deck with plankings and tree nails and you get bulwarks with gun ports cut out that is etched showing the planking and tree nails. On a kit like the Syren, you need to scratch build for yourself all of these parts (you need to do the planking, do tree nails if you wish, create the structure around the gun ports, plank around the gun ports). That's part of the reason why a Vanguard kit in the hands of a novice like me can look so nice. You can always chose to do all this scratch building on a Vanguard kit of course - and some do - but you don't have a choice on other kits. That's also why a relative novice can build something like a Vanguard Sherbourne, which would be a far more difficult kit if you needed to do all the constituent steps from scratch.

Edited 3 hours ago by palmerit

[OllieS]

So far I have built three Occre kits and my next is the Mantua Victory.

I would recommend Occre up to a point, they are 'reliable' as a build but you won't end up with great accuracy and the fittings are at best okay.

Vanguard is a first choice for many for very good reasons and I would say that in their safe hands you could be a little more ambitious in your next model compared to any other manufacturer.