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Everything posted by Anguirel

  1. Manage to spend some quality time in the workshop. Planking the inside is done to the level of the lower deck. The guide lines for the treenails is marked, next is drilling the holes and do the treenails. In the meantime I planed to do something different for the deck beams. I did a two timber deck beam with a table and lipped scarph. The one on the right is glued and with the black paper. It came out better then I was expecting for a first try. Now the problem is that the plans are made to use a constant thickness beam which is not the case of this one. Any advice on how to compensate for this? In the case of the lower left and upper right beam arm it must be shorter then on the plans and the other two it must be bigger... I could not find an example of a two timber beam on a model (found several examples of a three timber beams though). As for this one the cuts for the beam arms and carling will "cut" the scarph of the beam. Any advice is welcome... Hugo
  2. Hi all, I have been following many off the logs for years now. I have built two ships and I'm half way through the Santissima Trinidad (kits) but I was always amazed with the models on the scratch build section... i finally mustered the courage to try one myself. The Triton cross section seemed the perfect candidate, not too big, not too small. And the Group Project give the necessary support to new people like me.I ordered the wood from the wood list in the first post and I started as soon as it arrived. I have the three peices from the first drawing ready and now request access to the rest of the plans. A side not about the woods I'm using. Like I said I order the wood list from the topic's first post. I contacted two online stores and gave them the wood list. One of the stores said they didn't had some of the wood types I was requesting so I ordered the all lot in boxwood. This was the store that replied first. One day after paying I got the answer from the second store. They had all the wood types I wanted for a bit more them the first. Since I wanted to test different wood as well I proceeded with the second order. The problem was when the wood arrived. From the first store (just boxwood) the wood arrived like this: All strips of wood in individual labeled bags. The wood from the second store arrived like this: No labels with sizes or wood type which made it very difficult since I don't recognise the woods. One other difference was the finishing the wood from the second store they weren't sanded The biggest problem is that some the wood from the second store is not squared The keel (in the image) was one of the strips that was not squared. My question is: is this normal? Or this is something I should complain? Specially the not square thing, which just adds another level of complication... Thanks in advance, Anguirel
  3. Hi, i haven't been able to spent as much time on the cross section as I like but I manage to do a bit here and there. Sanding took a lot of time and was the only way I could find to give the hull the right shape. Here how she look now... in some places I didn't manage to get a good fit but still learning I guess... Hugo
  4. Hi, today reached a point of no return, the frames are in place... with the help of the jig and the spacers it was easier then I was expecting. Still had to redo some of the frames in order to align them properly (that is where I am now...) I played around with patterns of the treenails to fix the frames against the keel... The pattern on frame B seems better but from what I read it was only adopted after 1811 (Sappings System?, can anyone confirm this) and the one on frame C was the one in practice between 1710-1811. Next is the gunport lintels and sills then sanding, lots of sanding... Hugo
  5. Finally finished the frames... I have the jig to assemble them ready (I built something similar to ChadB's. one question: is there a proper place for the spacers? I will post some pictures tomorrow
  6. Hi kenny, congrats on finishing the cross section. The case looks great...
  7. Hi all, There is a question that's been bugging me for months now. On the ship's frames were the futtocks buts weatherized? With pitch and/or tar? I know that after the frames where assembled the hull was left exposed to the elements (if done properly for years) so the wood would age and mature. But rain water is different from salt water... I could not find anything in the literature I have access to or the internet. A few weeks ago I had the privilege of visiting the HMS Victory in Portsmouth and on the Orloop deck there are some gaps on the inner hull plucking and the frames are visible. I could find one of the frame's buts and as far as I could see there was no pitch or tar. But the fact that there was direct access to the frames, especially in the Orloop deck makes me think that some kind of weatherization should be made. Can anyone confirm or deny if the frames were weatherized like the deck planks? thanks
  8. Hi, I asked for a quote for boxwood with the thickness you sent but it was more then I was expecting and because it was my plan from the beginning to plank the all cross session and I want to buy a table saw and a lathe I rather save the money for the tools. So my plan now is to make the frames as they are in the plans and later when I have the tools I will make them "properly" and the decks only, with no planking.
  9. It's official, I'm halfway through assembling the frames
  10. Hi Jan, I had mixed experiences with basswood. For Christmas I made a wood truck for my son in basswood and the edges look pretty good: But the other day I bought basswood by mistake to use on the Triton's frames and this was the result: The wood look chewed mainly in the edges and tops, so I'm assuming different vendors/ brands have different quality. The wood for the truck was bought in Jo-Ann and the other in Hobby Lobby. Anybody with the same experience?
  11. Hi, Since I I don't have the appropriate tools and and I don't want to spend the money to buy the milled wood (because I'm saving to buy the a table saw and a lathe) I decided that for now I'm doing the frames as by the plans. Since I was planing to completely plank the cross section it won't make a difference. As soon as I have the tools I will make another with no planking to show the internal construction. So today I brought back the pieces I had already cut, and assembled the two half of frame 0 (having some difficulties adding images using the IPad)
  12. The position of the bolts was subject to space availability. My guess would be to put it after the gangway bracket. Will the stairs get in the way?
  13. Hi, After moving to the new house, unpacking everything and a surprise trip to London a was able to convince the Admiral to double my space Wile in London I managed to take one (very cold) day to go to the Royal Dockyards in Portsmouth. What a wonderful day... I just felt like a kid on Christmas Eve... Now I need to go back and think on how I want to proceed... Thanks
  14. Hi, You are right it is basswood, I bought it by mistake. For some reason the Hobby Lobbby closest to my house as balsa, bass and boxwood but I guess some are mixed up and so I bought the wrong one.
  15. Hi, Just an update on my (not) progress... I tried to do the futtocks with different thickness using boxwood from Hobby Lobby, bad idea... the wood is not dense (don't know if that is the correct word to use) enough, it couldn't hold the shape specially the edges. The edges looked like they were chewed. Now I'm in the process of changing houses so my work corner look like this In the mean time I contacted Crown Timberyard to see if they can mill the wood to the thickness I want. If they can't do it I will just have to accepted that I don't have the tool necessary to do it that way.
  16. Hi This was waiting for me when I arrived home yesterday, finally I will be able o keep things squared. As for the black paper on the frames, the double frames they are sturdy enough ( if the one I built can be used as an example) the simple ones might be a ploblem. I used the paper because I read somewhere that they used tar or pitch on the frame joints, but now I can't find it, will have to go through the books again...
  17. Hi Christian, Thanks for the info. It's back to the drawing board, from the values you sent all the frames are thicker then the ones on the frorun planes so I can't use the ones I had already cut.
  18. Hi Thanks for the measurements Christian. Just one question, did you switch the floor timber and the 1st futtock? the floor timber should be thicker right? As for the position of the gun ports I'm assuming I can use the plans of the forum for that. Do you have a way to confirm that? Mark I will try the holes thing and next time I'm in Hobby Lobby I will ask if they have the artist pigment... (the only immediate problem I see is the excess glue witch I tend to apply)
  19. Hi Christian, thanks for the info. I think it's too late to go with simplification... if it's not too much trouble for you can you send me the correct sizes?
  20. Hi, So I finished my first double frame. This was done mainly for testing since the frame is wrong some time now... I think the treenails and copper nails came out alright, the copper nails more then the treenails. One half The other half The treenails And the treenails on the scarph I realised now that the treenails on the scarph should had gone through to the other side. But should the same thing be done on the chock? For the finish I was planning on using Danish oil but I must admit it let the wood darker then I was expecting... One half The other half The treenails While I was putting the treenails I used a pencil to "paint" the treenails black but most of it came off during the process of applying the treenails to the frame. At the time I was worried that the black wouldn't show but I guess I was wrong. I ordered wood from The Lumberyard and from Hobby Mill, although the are the same wood type (boxwood) there are not the same... For last... next time have to be more careful to maintain the frame square when doing the holes for the treenails. This is a stupid way to ruin a frame almost at the end
  21. Hi, "and very nice it is too! That must have been very satisfying to make. Tony" Thanks Tony, it was indeed very satisfying... Mike, align the pieces wasn’t difficult, just used the plan as a template. What was difficult was sanding the individual half frames and putting the two half’s together. The frame pieces, chocks and futtocks were sanded and aligned before and everything was perfect. Once I put the paper on this added an extra length (the thickness of the paper) to all components and everything had to be re-sanded and the chocks had to be re-dimensioned. Next time this can be avoided by taking this in consideration from the beginning. Another problem was that the glue doesn’t form a solid joint across the paper so it’s very easy to pull the pieces apart (this happened three times during sanding) leaving paper on both sides. This doesn’t happen once the two half’s are together. Now what I don’t know how to do is how to put the two half together. This time I did it with the two half fully assembled. There is a post called “Assembling Frames” pinned to the top of the cross section section that shows how to do this adding piece by piece of the two half at the frame time. First the floor futtock, then the 1st futtock, then the 2nd and so forth... now my question is how do you align them if all the pieces have extra wood on the side, how do you align the red and blue line if they are not always at the same distance from the edge of the different pieces (when I did mine, I cheated, I sand it first so the lines where at the edges). Christian, your help is most welcome and needed. Some questions and observation from the image you posted 1. The frame at station 0 is not double 2. The double frames at station 1 and (A) are not symmetrical, the half’s closest to frame 0 are thicker 3. Frames at station 3, 5, 7, A, C and E are symmetrical 4. The frames at stations 7, 5, 3, 1, (A), A, C and E there is a space between them from the 1st futtock up while the frames at stations 6, 4, 2, ? (what is the name of the station between (A) and A?), B and D there is a space between them all the way from the keel 5. What are the units of the thickness values written in the image? 6. When you say all other frames have normal thickness is that the thickness used in the plans here at the forum? If that is the case I can use the pieces I have already cut and just sand then to the correct thickness (assuming they have the thickness of the floor futtock all the way up). Only have to redo the frame 0 and the two half frames from station 1 and (A) 7. The frames at stations 7, 5, 3, 1, (A), A, C and E at the connection of the different pieces there are 4 horizontal lines (two at the 2nd-3rd futtock joint) in the space between the half frames, are those the location of the frames spacers? or just the location of the copper bolts? 8. How do I determine the size of the space between the frames, they don’t seem to be always the same 9. The frames at station 6, 4, 2, ?, B, D there seems to only be a reduction in thickness from the floor futtock to the 2nd futtock and from the 1st futtock to the 3rd futtock. The 2nd, 3rd, 4th futtocks and the top timber have the same thickness Jan, I already used this paper in the same way in one of my kits and it didn’t bleed to the wood but I will test this on the frame I’m doing now Just a small update on the frame I’m doing… the treenails are in place as well as the copper wires. Once everything is sanded I will post picture Thanks everyone for the likes, comments and help…
  22. Hi, Anobium what a wonderful idea... when you say 3 thick frames at station 0 are you referring to the changes in thickness as we go up? The first biggest problem about this idea is that I still can't understand everything in those kind of plans. But I will try. As for the frame I was building I used black paper to simulate the pitch and tar that was used. This introduced a extra high to the floors, futtocks and top timbers that I was not successful at compensating and one side of one of the halfs is bigger then the other. I also had to compensate the size of the chock and scarphs. Because of this (and Anobium's idea) this frame is now garbage. I still used this frame to do some testing and to see the final result of using the black paper One half... The other half... And the inside... Now for the treenails. I will try boxwood (same wood as frames) for the treenails and copper wires for the nails. Let's see how it looks
  23. Thank for the kind words Tony. It just makes me nervous knowing that there is a "righter" way to do it. Don't get me wrong I'm very appreciative of the free work that was put in making the planes and I understand the need for simplicity in this kind of projects but I feel wrong if I don't go the extra mile. So with that in mind here's my attempt at the cross chock Only 8 to go...
  24. Hi, One question about frame construction. The Triton's keel was layed down in 1771 and according to Peter Goodwin between 1750-1811 the 1st futtocks ended in a scarph against the keel and a cross chock as used to fasten the two and the assembly to the keel. On the plans the two 1st futtocks are actually very similar to two half floors. In this case (again according to Peter Goodwin) they would be fastened to each other and to the keel by coaks, this was the method of construction between 1811-1850. So the question is: where the plans simplified so "first times" like me could actually build the cross section and I'm over complicating or is there and alternate method of construction? I'm sure Peter Goodwin's word is not the only one and it's not final. Thanks
  25. Hi, GabeK, thanks. I did see your log during my research but said it's difficult to find the formula for the chocks dimensions. I did find one on the TFFM book but I'm missing one of the variables. I ended up simplifying the formula. I cut all the frames peices, still can't control the scroll saw properly so some are closer to the line then others. In the mean time finished the "C" double frame. The second pair has 2 chocks and 2 scarphs. With the mill the scarphs where much easier to make. Still there is a lot of fine sanding with the micro files... Now to glue everything, sand and then treenails...