Louie da fly

I haven't actually taken the time to look at them. I was just after a particular reference. I'll have to follow up on this myself as well.
 
Speaking of links, you might like the one here, too.

whoa!  thanks Steven!!  those research papers and theses from Texax A&M are really a treasure!  I have many happy hours of reading ahead of me.  what a great resource!  and by that I mean you as well as the papers and theses.

Yes, this detail from the arrival of St. Ursula at Cologne by Carpaccio clearly shows a steering oar AND a transom. I think that is a sheepskin over the stempost.
 

I haven't actually taken the time to look at them. I was just after a particular reference. I'll have to follow up on this myself as well.
 
Speaking of links, you might like the one here, too.

Dick,
 
I just came across some pictures from the so-called "Hastings Manuscript". There has been some disagreement about the dating. The latest theory is that the picture of the single ship is from about 1450, while the one with multiple ships is from 1520-1530. Not sure I agree, but a picture of a carrack casting the lead is instructive, if nothing else, and you might find some useful details there. 
 
For instance, the boats in the second picture are double ended and are using a steering oar, not a rudder - something I've seen also in the Anthony Roll's depictions of Henry VIII's ships and The Embarkation at Dover, both from 1545. Interesting that this kind of boat was in use this late, so probably appropriate also to your own ship.
 
Steven

Dick,
 
I just came across some pictures from the so-called "Hastings Manuscript". There has been some disagreement about the dating. The latest theory is that the picture of the single ship is from about 1450, while the one with multiple ships is from 1520-1530. Not sure I agree, but a picture of a carrack casting the lead is instructive, if nothing else, and you might find some useful details there. 
 
For instance, the boats in the second picture are double ended and are using a steering oar, not a rudder - something I've seen also in the Anthony Roll's depictions of Henry VIII's ships and The Embarkation at Dover, both from 1545. Interesting that this kind of boat was in use this late, so probably appropriate also to your own ship.
 
Steven

Tarbrush, when you get to the stage of masts, sails and rigging, you might find the 1543 picture of Ships near Dover helpful - you can't get a picture on the Net without someone's logos all over it, but nonetheless I think it's got lots of worthwhile information. There are links to it here and here. Hope this is of use to you, as it's only 2 years away from the date Mary Rose sank, and depicts, if not English ships, at least ships in English waters.

Dick,
 
I just came across some pictures from the so-called "Hastings Manuscript". There has been some disagreement about the dating. The latest theory is that the picture of the single ship is from about 1450, while the one with multiple ships is from 1520-1530. Not sure I agree, but a picture of a carrack casting the lead is instructive, if nothing else, and you might find some useful details there. 
 
For instance, the boats in the second picture are double ended and are using a steering oar, not a rudder - something I've seen also in the Anthony Roll's depictions of Henry VIII's ships and The Embarkation at Dover, both from 1545. Interesting that this kind of boat was in use this late, so probably appropriate also to your own ship.
 
Steven

Hans; The Age of the Galley doesn't mention colours at all. And all the illustrations are in black and white.
 
You might try looking for Ancient Greek representations of galleys, which could have colours. I did a google image search for "ancient greek ship art" and among all the modern  pictures there were some genuine Ancient representations. Unfortunately most of them are on pottery in "red and black ware", in which everything (including the people) is either red or black. So not much help there, but for what it's worth, the link is here.
 
Steven

Nice one. It's on  my wish list as well. Lots of good reading there, and very detailed and comprehensive. I've been through it twice (from the library) and I feel like I've barely scratched the surface.
 
Steven

The gentlemans seats of ease in the poop!!

 
The poop decking completed

 

 

 
The supports for the sterncastle are started
Dick
 
 

Thanks, Steven. Here are some pics showing the halfdeck and waist with deck knees Which are seen on the Villefranche Nave and the Mary Rose. A start is made on the poop deck.
Dick

 

 

Hi Dick!
 
I just discovered a website dealing with the excavation of the wreck of the Lomellina, a large Genoese ship with 300 men aboard, which sank in Villefranche harbour in 1516. Some interesting stuff there, including the capstan, rudder, port lids etc. It's at http://archeonavale.org/lomellina/an/l_6a.html and there's more at http://www.culture.gouv.fr/fr/archeosm/archeosom/en/lomel-s.htm It seems to me that quite a bit of this information could be relevant to your build.
 
Best wishes,
 
Steven

Lovely work, Hans. A very interesting build.

A little more progress today. So far, I've installed two rows of planking on both sides, and I'm in the process of cutting/bending the third row.
Bow planking:

 
Stern planking:

 
The fit of the planks is pretty good, but not perfect. However, this part of the planking will be covered on the exterior by lead sheathing, so minor gaps caused by the bevel being slightly off aren't really a concern as long as they  aren't visible from the inside.
 
This is the first plank I've had to bend prior to fitting it onto the ship. I just immersed in hot water for about 30 seconds and clamped it to a scrap piece of 2x4 with the desired curve. It seems to have held the curve well, even though I've read that basswood has poor steam-bending properties compared to other wood.
 

 
I also started work on the ram, but I may end up throwing it out.
 

 
The problem is that the phosphor bronze sheet only comes in one thickness (0.008" or 0.2mm), and I can't seem to do a decent job of bending or layering it to create the thickness of the horizontal fins. I'll probably end up using copper instead, since it will look very similar once the patina forms and is available in much thicker sheets or strips.
 
 
Thanks Pat. Have you read the Hellenic Traders series by H. N. Turtletaub (Harry Turtledove under a pseudonym)? I quite enjoyed the series, as it was full of well-researched details about the ancient Mediterranean, and especially ships, during the time period right after the death of Alexander the Great.
 
 
Michael Pitassi does address the ventilation problem in Roman Warships, proposing various configurations of large gratings on the deck as well as wooden screens next to the rowing benches that are above the level of the gunwales. But with a dromon, I can see air supply being much more of a problem based on my limited knowledge of them.
 
As far as the Olympias' hypozomata, I don't think they were even able to try using natural materials, since they couldn't find an adequate supply of hemp rope, and no synthetic materials had similar properties. The steel cable wasn't an ideal solution either. Because steel cable isn't very elastic, it would apparently slacken when the ship flexed one way, and snap taut when it flexed the other, leading to concerns about it potentially breaking and injuring the crew.
 
Concerning the plurality of zomata, this excerpt from John F. Coates lecture clears thing up a little: "The second piece of evidence concerning strength was about great ropes, 47 mm or so in diameter, and nearly twice the ship's length. Two were rigged in each ship when on active service, and two more were carried aboard as spares. A decree laid down the number of men required to rig them in a trireme. The inscription about them is unfortunately damaged, but the space occupied by the missing number indicates that it was probably 50. They were important pieces of kit because their export from Athens was a capital offense." 
 
Here's a link to the rest of the lecture.

Sharpie, I agree about the lure of the unknown. Its exciting to try working out how something might have been, rather than have it all spelled out in black and white.For me, the speculation and experimentation is one of the most interesting facets of this hobby.
 
The pump might still be an air pump - apparently on the Olympias reconstruction the lowest oarsmen had trouble with overheating (and also with dehydration). I'm currently researching a Byzantine dromon, and air access is still one of the major problems that nobody knows the answer to. The general opinion is that dromoi, which were fully decked above the lower bank of oars, must have had a lot of gratings in the deck, and probably air scoops and pumps. But nobody knows for sure. On current theory there just wouldn't have been enough air for the lower deck oarsmen to keep going.
 
By the way, in Olympias, they weren't able to tension the hypozomata sufficiently with traditional materials and had to use steel cable. Yet another of these unknowns - how did they do it back in the day?
 
(I looked up the Ancient Greek meaning of hypozomata - it's a bit strange. Hypo is "under" - as in hypodermic syringe. But zomata is a plural word - the singular is zoma, and it means something that is girdled - like a tunic with a belt, for example. Why they'd use a plural word for a single cable I don't know, unless it indicates a cable made of other ropes twisted together? In Ancient Greek times it would have been pronounced somethinglike hoopoZOMata (emphasis on the third syllable), but by Roman times the pronunciation may well have changed to be more like modern Greek - eepoZOMata.) 
 
Steven

Sharpie, I agree about the lure of the unknown. Its exciting to try working out how something might have been, rather than have it all spelled out in black and white.For me, the speculation and experimentation is one of the most interesting facets of this hobby.
 
The pump might still be an air pump - apparently on the Olympias reconstruction the lowest oarsmen had trouble with overheating (and also with dehydration). I'm currently researching a Byzantine dromon, and air access is still one of the major problems that nobody knows the answer to. The general opinion is that dromoi, which were fully decked above the lower bank of oars, must have had a lot of gratings in the deck, and probably air scoops and pumps. But nobody knows for sure. On current theory there just wouldn't have been enough air for the lower deck oarsmen to keep going.
 
By the way, in Olympias, they weren't able to tension the hypozomata sufficiently with traditional materials and had to use steel cable. Yet another of these unknowns - how did they do it back in the day?
 
(I looked up the Ancient Greek meaning of hypozomata - it's a bit strange. Hypo is "under" - as in hypodermic syringe. But zomata is a plural word - the singular is zoma, and it means something that is girdled - like a tunic with a belt, for example. Why they'd use a plural word for a single cable I don't know, unless it indicates a cable made of other ropes twisted together? In Ancient Greek times it would have been pronounced somethinglike hoopoZOMata (emphasis on the third syllable), but by Roman times the pronunciation may well have changed to be more like modern Greek - eepoZOMata.) 
 
Steven

Thanks Banyan and Hans! The lack of any surviving ancient Roman/Greek vessels is one of the reasons why I like building them-- it leaves a lot more from for personal preference and aesthetics than a well-documented ship like the Victory.
 
Hans, the pump mechanism was in this thread. You're probably right about it being a bilge pump, not an air pump, since the rowing compartment is designed with screens to  provide ventilation as well as protect the rowers from arrows and such. I suppose it might also have come in handy in dealing with smaller leaks when the hull sustained damage in battle.
I'm following your trireme build log with interest. Really looking forward to seeing all the oars at that scale!

Rings installed on all oar ends now to finish boring the oar ports.

The work might be boring to do, but the care and attention to detail have made sure that the result is magnificent.

The work might be boring to do, but the care and attention to detail have made sure that the result is magnificent.

Due to lack of time, during the week I didn't worked often around the model.
I made the rigging of two cannons, but other 14 still needs to be arranged, so it will become  a nightmare...
When all the cannons will be ready I will place them on the deck.
I can proceed with the rigging of the foremast only when the cannons are definetly placed, since it will be difficult to do that before.
Making the cannons rigging is rather boring and a slow duty.
I don't yet find a fast way to do it.
In the meanwhile the weekend arrived and so the "noisy days"!
Saturday and sunday are the only days when I can really make noisy operations, so again I concentrated there the crafting of many components, that more or less will be used many weeks later.
this weekend has been very profitable:
-I attached the various bitts of the bow section;
-I made the wooden pedestal of the model;
Later I will add a basement, with a lenght that cover the largest part of the ship.
The pedestal and related basement will be later painted with a mahogany essence.
- I made the belaying pins support of the mainmast;
Before doing that I needed to decide the correct positions of the various blocks and rings around the main mast.
That decision was needed due to the fact that the related holes needed to be done before (as usual).
Sadly I noticed that the mainmast basement zone will become very "crowded".
Probably a more accurate study was needed and the manole needed to be moved a bit more far from the mast.
Now it's too late...
the two bilge pumps needs to be placed between the manhole and the mast, so it will be a tricky affair place them.
The belaying pins are placed just for the photo purposes.
I used the "noisy days" in a wise way, so remained time for making the main mast!
That is a single piece mast, as can be seen in many drawings, paintings and models.
It will not be glued in place for the moment.
It has been placed just for photo purposes.

This week has been dedicated to the construction of accessories fo the deck.
Specifically: "boring accessories"!
I made 12 kevels, each composed by three pieces, as can be seen in the photos and later I painted them with light walnut colour;
I made all the customised blocks needed for the standing rigging of the foremast (in the photos can be seen before and after the treating with dark walnut color).
I made the "multiple blocks" (I don't know the english term ) for the halyard of the lateen sail of the foremast.
I made 10 bitts for the bow section.
I made minor accessories related to the main-mast, too.
In addition I made all the holes needed for attaching to the ship the rigging of all the cannons.
I finally installed the foremast and its "lantern" or "calcese" or....(it is called in many ways), painted black.
So, really, it has been a very very boring week!
 
But the pain it is still not ended.
Before proceeding further I need to prepare and attach all the rigging of the cannons, otherwise I have no idea of the available space for placing the other "materials" on the deck.
Unfortunately, working without a commercial drawing force me to give priority to some boring steps.
So the next week will still be a boring one....

"I'm glad you're ok with it. I was a bit worried that I might have come across like some kind of fault-finding miseryguts, rather than trying to help."
 
LOL :D    I have never heard "miseryguts" before,  I love it, I am going to use that.

The pepper wreck is a very interesting and worthwhile resource, but it has to be remembered that it's about 100 years later than the ship you're planning to model, and there were quite a few changes in ship design over that period.
 
There's some good info on Portuguese naus (carracks) at http://nautarch.tamu.edu/shiplab/indianau02iconography.htm and http://nautarch.tamu.edu/shiplab/00-pdf/Castro%202009%20-%20PepperWreckSails.pdf, including some good stuff on the Pepper wreck itself.
 
Steven