PMG

Hi Steve, I was looking to your pictures and I discovered some small differences between your kit and mine (i.e. the capstan preformed piece) May be your kit is a little bit more recent. It means that it is not impossible that yours foressee a second planking. Anyway, in my kit I didn't receive the wood for. Another idea. On my log, I start detailling some "errors" contained in the kit. Some are not very important, but others are. If it is still possible, I advise you to cut the closed bulwark that never existed. In the same idea, you should not install the ten 9 pdrs guns on the quarter deck. At the limit, you place there two or four carronades. It's just an advise.... up to you to decide, of course. Pierre

Yesterday, I told to Anja that I should give some more explanation about my crew. On the next picture, you see anew one at the end of the manufacturing process. You see the piece of boxwood (a wood very easy to work because you don't have a preferential direction of the fibres) and the guy awaiting for painting and cutting. Next time, I show you an amazing member of the crew. Beware for the surprise.... Pierre

Yes, its big and needs a lot of room, specially if you want to turn around...

Thank you, Borge, But, I shall be a very slow builder. Always better than an idle one. Pierre

Hi Mobbsie, HMS SERAPIS is really a nice ship. The kit was made by Aeropiccola from Torino (Italy). I acquired it almost 30 years ago. I have seen on the buildlog of Steve that they are out of business, but it seems that some company in the US is selling some remakes. Now, the hull of the kit is perfect, and you recognise easily the beautiful lines of Slade, but the kit contains some "horrors". I made, with the years, more or less extensive documental research on the 44 guns fregate, and I tell you some, just lke that: - this ship could'nt have closed bulwark like shown on the kit - the ship couldn't carry 10 9pdrs guns on the quarter deck (as provided in the kit) - boats hanging on davits is something that appeared only around the year 1800, and the ship was actually lost in 1779! - the masting and rigging is based on a model of 1805 - the steering wheel shoud be located in front of the mizzenmast and not after. and so on.... Thus a lot of small things, not too difficult to correct, if you know. I am intended to detail all of them in this Log. It is for the coming days... Pierre

By the way, here is picture I shall try to place on the link of Kevin with the present status of my Aggie. Pierre

Hello Anja, Thank you for the tip. I did it and..... it works! You can see that the link to my HMS AGAMEMNON buildlog is now mentionned below my signature. BUT..... For doing it, I used the build address you mentionned in your last post. Now, I should like to add a link to my HMS SERAPIS build log. My question is then: how did you get the address of the build log? If you can get it for me I should be very happy. ( Caution: my build log is: "HMS SERAPIS by PMG Aeropiccola" not to be confused with "HMS Serapis Aeropiccola 1/60" by Steve) Thank you. Pierre

Another issue I feel interesting to discuss is the DOUBLE PLANKING. Steve tells that he will start soon the second planking. The drawings of Aeropiccola I got in my kit are dated 30-9-70. For me, they don't mention a second planking of the hull. By the way, I got in the kitbox no wood for doing it too. My conclusion is thus that this kit (mine anyway) is a single planking hull. See a picture taken from the drawings. Attached also another picture of the present status of my ship I shall try to place on the Kevin's link. Pierre

Sorry, I missed something. I try again tomorrow. Pierre

OK Kevin, I do a test. Pierre

Anja, I had a look to the link you gave me. It looks rather complicated. I shall try to make an attempt tomorrow, just hoping that nothing is exploding during the tentative...; The crew members are made in boxwood, I think. These pieces of wood were given to me by a swiss friend 20 years ago and they are very easy to carve. I started making these sailors after seeing the cover of the book of Harold Hahn. But, of course, no comparision with my guys... I give more precision later. Pierre

Hello Mobbsie, I arrived more or less to the same conclusion as you did. We got enough headhatches with these gunports... Lets try to make them and see if they look fine ( that's for me, becaus I suppose yours are already done). I should be very happy if I can finish all gunports for the end of this year.... Pierre

Thank you anja for your encouragement. As you know, I am a (very) slow builder and handling two big ships at the same time is a challenge. But the encouragement of friends are giving me the taste to go ahead. Let's speak about one of the first issues of the Serapis kit: THE SCALE. I found no scale indication neither in the attached drawings, neither on the box. The answer needs some research. I was interested by this strange type of ship and it is relatively difficult to find documentation about. Too small to be a ship of the line and too big to be a simple fregate. I discovered that the type was developped at the occasion of the American Independence War. From far away, the ship was taken for a two-decker but on the other side she was able to enter in the rivers to ennoy the american coast shipping. The HMS Serapis was designed by the famous naval architect Slade (as is, by the way, HMS Agamemnon). I finally found in "Ships of the American Revolution and their models" by Harold M. Hahn precious indications about my ship. Not precisely the Serapis, but the HMS Roebuck launched also in 1779 and also designed by Slade. A lot of points of comparison convinced me that it was almost the same ship with an exception for the quarter gallery. If I go and look on the HMS Roebuck drawings presented by Hahn, I see that the gun deck is approximatively 139' long. ( it means precisely: 42,367mm). On another hand, the drawings supplied by Aeroppicola show a gun deck of approximatively 655mm. The ratio between the two is 1/64,7. Taking into account the possible innacuracy of my measurements on small drawings, I think that we can conclude that the scale of the model of the HMS Serapis is 1/64. I checked against other parts (like the masts by exemple) and I arrived every time at the same conclusion. 1/64 is also a scale very communely used by kit manufacturers, and the probability that Aeropicccola used 1/60 seems to me very very low. Next time, I am intended to speak about some anachronical mistakes and, by the way, the number of supplied guns. Pierre

Hello Anja, Thank you for the message. In fact I spent 3 weeks in France. I am retired and I bought an house there. So I am spending more or less 2/3 of the year in tne North and 1/3 in the South. The problem is that it is difficult to travel with the ships. Generally I bring with me some smaller parts I can prepare when the sun is shining or in the shadow with a good glass of Rosé or something else... Can you tell what I precisely have to do to add these links to my signature? Here is another guy of my crew. Pierre

Here is a picture of the poop in preformed woodfoam(?). I was relatively happy with the result. But it doesn't assemble like mechanical parts... Here is another view: the forecastle. I wonder if the bulkhead existed actually. You can also see that I added a galley. You see the chimney (of course not on the drawings). And, finally, the type of problems I have to face now. One of my cats appreciated very much one of the catheads.... . I didn't kill the cat when discovering that, but I was obliged to make a new cathead (still not in place). I come back later with a first issue interesting to discuss: the scale of the model. See you soon, Pierre

Hello Steve, I just started my new Log. I made some pictures 2 days ago and they are coming soon. Pierre

Hello, Some days ago Steve started his Log about his HMS SERAPIS. There are a lot of things to say about that kit. So, I am happy to start this Log about a construction I started almost 30 yaers ago and I never finished. May be I will do it now. Around 1984 or 1985 I acquired the HMS SERAPIS kit from Aeropiccola. At the time it was an expensive kit. It costed me about the equivalent of 500 Euros. It should be much more today. But, I always dreamed to build an english frigate. And this one was not only a frigate but also a two-decker... I had always been afraid to build the poop galleries and this kit offered an apparently nice solution with the preformed wood pieces. The quality of the kit appeared to be excellent. Fine wood, nice fittings etc. Here is a picture of my HMS SERAPIS as she is today. In a further log I send you more pictures and I start to discuss a number of issues I encountered with this model. Pierre

OK, thanks. I start my log later today. I have already prepared some issues interesting to discuss. Pierre

Hi friends, Now that I am back at home, I try to take a decision about the size of the lower and upper gunports. Poop deck gun ports are not really an issue as they are already laser cutted. And looking to other references dos'nt simplify the question... - If I correctly understood Mobbsie, he is choosing (15x14 mm) for the inner dimensions ( I put the inner dimensions under bracket and the outer dimensions not) and so 17x16 mm outer dimensions for the lower gun deck. For the upper gun deck he chooses (15x15mm) inner and so 17x17 outer. But, may be that my interpretation is not good, and that you are using 15x15mm (outer), what means (13x13mm) inner, what sounds better. - The precut lids are respectively 17x15mm (15x14mm) and 15x13mm (14x12mm). - I checked in "Nelson's Favourite" by Anthony Deane. There you find a (small) sheer and body plan not very easy to handle. However, I tried to take the measurements, and taking into account a double innacuracy (I pass the details of the mathematics, but if you insist...) I finally found: (15,92x13,07mm) inner and thus 17,92x15,07mm outer fot the lower deck and (13,37x12,69mm) inner and thus 15,37x14,69mm outer for the upper deck. (Don't forget there is a double innacuracy, and tha's not too far from Mobbsie figures) - In "the new period ship handbook", Keith Julier speeks about 17x15mm outer and (15x13mm) inner and respectively 15x13mm and (13x11mm) for the lower deck. OK, I think that if I found another couple of references the figures should be different again. I putted all these figures on a table and finally I decided to use the values of Keith Julier. They seems to be situated in a good average. Mobbsie, I am just afraid that your upper gunports should be a liile bit too large, but I don't know if that matters really. Pierre

Hello Steve, Here is a picture of my Hms Serapis as she is now. There is still a lot to do and and a lot of things to talk about. I wonder if it should not be better to start my own buid log to avoid confusion with yours. Pierre

Hi Steve, I am very fortunate because I cutted all the pieces before stopping. The issue now is to find them all... I wonder about the scale of the model. I never found a clear indication neither on the box neither in the drawings. After comparision with similar ships (like the HMS Roebuck) I concluded that the scale of the model was 1/64. Do you have other informations? Pierre

Hello Steve, I also have a HMS SERAPIS. I started the build around 1985. But I never finished her. It's true, the material is generally excellent. And she is a very very nice ship. But my major concern was the fact that the drawings contain to many anachronical errors. So I tried to correct them whenever possible. May be that I continue the construction in a near future, but now I am in my HMS Agamemnon from Caldercraft. I come later back on the "anachronical" mistake and I shal also post some pictures of my ship. Regards Pierre

Hi Mobbsie, Thank you for your very very useful message. And sorry if I caused you some nightmares, but the matter is not easy at all (for me anyway). I fully agree with you abouth the lower gundeck. 17x15 mm seems also to me the right choice. About the upper gundeck I am not so sure. 15x15mm seems to me a little bit too large. I wonder if 14x13mm should'nt be better. For the stern chaser, are you intended to cut the port in the counter and place the lid or are you just fixing the lid on? Friday, I will be back home and I shall check on the original drawings of the Aggie. Thanks again an good work! Pierre

Hello Mobbsie, Thank you for your very useful answer. It confirms tnat the issue is not so simple. I wonder also what Rob (Decoyman) did. Once back at home I am intended to check the sizes against the "original" drawings we can find in "The Nelson favorite". But I don't have the book here. I will then take my "final" decision about. Pierre

Hello Martin, All is OK now. Your filling is very impressive. It surely took a lot of time. Pierre