-Dallen

Appreciate the note, but I use Lumberyard jig and plans, however replacing all wood with the one from Arkowood. See my whining in the first few pages of the log (page 2 and 3), there are clear photos, the conclusion is up to you.
 
Lumberyard has a good inventory, but when ordering - please be super pedantic about what you need. Things like
1) Allowed amount and severity of defects in the wood you get
2) Finishing sanding grit. That was a bummer for me - I ordered a milled wood and got something so rough that needed thickness planer / sander or a lot of time wasted on tedious sanding. With a totally different thickness in the end
3) Wood type. I wanted "swiss pear and boxwood" - got a non-swiss (not kiln dried) pear for the frames, which has a different colour. Not saying this is better or worse, but it is definitely not something that I expected
 
So, I guess, with all that precautions they could be used. However, there are many new suppliers - the famous one is Crown Timberyard that provides a dramatically different quality and no need for sanding / re-milling. Stuff is just perfect out of the box and looks exactly like you expect.
Lumberyard have a much better selection of woods though, so if you have a tools to mill your own wood (or, at least, to thickness it) - they could be used for less popular woods bought in some rough form (sheets, billets).
 
Sorry for getting that dirty laundry out, but with the lack of a proper "rating" system and such a limited amount of wood suppliers, guess it is better to share.

I currently purchase billet wood from them and I am pleased with the material I received.

Professor, I bought the wood for a MSB Battle station that was done by the Lumberyard. The 3 cannon were omitted in the initial package, and I PMed Dave about that. He's on this site, usually showing us the details of the Hahn ship models. The cannon showed up a few days later.
 
There is at least one gentleman who has purchased the wood for a ships. Mike Y is working up the "Cromwell" with Lumberyard wood: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7297-oliver-cromwell-by-mike-y-148-1777-pof-hahn-style/?hl=%2Bdlumberyard+%2Bkits#entry215467
 
You may want to search this site, using the ship names.

Professor,
 
Have a look here:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/forum/20-wood-discussion/  at the pinned topic at the top for wood suppliers.  There's also two on the front page as sponsors here.
 
Quite a few of us have used The Lumberyard.  He wood generally needs a thickness sanding although I do believe he still offers milled wood.  

I had one for several years. It was a family hand me down. I primarily used it as a drill press. Didn't notice any power issues and I pretty much used it within its limits. In getting into miniature modeling and tool making I decided to upgrade to the Sieg X2 and to retool to that machine. 

Thank you for your kind words. But I do not celebrate Christmas and New Year because of religious beliefs

Fishes:

I agree with Don. That is what I usually do, but then again, I usually don't do things the "Right" way, I do them my way or the easiest way I can do them to get the hull planked and looking as good as I can get it without pulling my hair out (whats left of it) or taking the model outside and stomping on it.
 
 
mike

Small note on treenails: I use the same method as you, and after some practice it works fairly ok. But it is more efficient to use a long strip of wood instead of a short ones - you spend roughly the same time per strip, but get much longer treenail material in the end
Great log, thanks for posting!

I'm so glad that this build was reposted. Reading it and digesting the contents make me want to dive into parts of the build that I have not come to yet. So many techniques and ideas to choose from. How can one not learn with so many shipwrights sharing a vast amount of knowledge. Thank you all.

Scare Bleu, yes i know starting another one. As stated I my Endeavour log
I am very time poor at the moment, but I need to do something.
Something, I can just sit down and model with, and not spend time sorting out what and how to do.
A couple of pics


 
it will be done as the kit is, except after looking around it appears, a binnacle needs to be added.
Cheers Chris

I'm so glad that this build was reposted. Reading it and digesting the contents make me want to dive into parts of the build that I have not come to yet. So many techniques and ideas to choose from. How can one not learn with so many shipwrights sharing a vast amount of knowledge. Thank you all.

I'm so glad that this build was reposted. Reading it and digesting the contents make me want to dive into parts of the build that I have not come to yet. So many techniques and ideas to choose from. How can one not learn with so many shipwrights sharing a vast amount of knowledge. Thank you all.

18. Filling out the Gunports
 
I was fooling around with making anchor stock wales (which is a little trickier than I thought) and decided to put it aside for a while and go ahead and finish the gunports. Since the gunwales are going to be done in bloodwood to simulate red paint, I went ahead and did the sills and lintels in bloodwood also. I also added a thin veneer to the sides to complete it. Since the insides of the gunports will be the only parts showing, it looks a little rough around the edges (literally). I just made sure the joints on the inside were nice and tight and that planking on the outside and inside will lay flat and not leave any gaps. -Chad 
 

17. Finishing the Hold Planking, Cutting Limber Boards, and Cutting out Gunport Sills and Lintels
 
. I finished up the hold planking with one side fully planked and the other just thick stuff as to show off frames. All the planking was pretty straightforward, but I was a little worried about making sure my treenails were in nice straight lines. It's one of those things I've tried to do to the best of my ability since mediocre results would stick out like a sore thumb. 
I started with this little jig which was a small piece of scrap with a block on either end that will let it fit over all the frames and stay in place. I marked on the scrap the positions of each treenail so it could be marked  on the frames.  *Sorry about the photos. I'm actually a little embarassed to be showing them because of the horrible white balance. My kitchen table has been my headquarters over the winter and the lighting overhead is the new  energy-saving flourescents      Once I had marks across each frame, I connected the dots..      Once the lines were drawn, I drew perpendicular lines to make sure they would be even across the frames also, which left me with small crosses at the points that needed drilling..      I started drilling the holes using a pinvise but it took forever, so I switched over to my small rechargeable Dremel which worked well. I went through and used a pn to start a hole so the drill had somewhere to start. All treenails were done with cherry and I used a 1mm hole for the thick stuff and a 1/2 mm hole for all the rest..      Once that was done I wanted to finish up my limberboards. I had opened a thread a while back in the general discussion about it and came to the conclusion that they would be 3 feet long with openings on either side to pry them out. So scaled down gave me 3/4 inch long sections with half circles drilled out on each end. I already had the long continuous limberboard shaped, so it was just a matter of cutting and drilling. I started by cutting the lengths, then setting up this little jig to make sure the half circles lined up. Two boards were put in and lined up so the drill bit would fall directly between the two. Any small adjustments were made  with a file..      Overall a simple task once thought out. I will glue in place eventually and there will be small pieces to cover the ends. I don't know if they were actually staggered like this, but I really like the look.     And then just last night I finally built up the courage to cut out the slots for the gunport sills and lintels. I don't know why this scared me so much, but it ended up being incredibly easy. I think it was actually seeing Grant,s method of cutting out the slots in the floors on Dokondr's build log that really made it easy- thanks Grant! Everything was already marked, so I just used a jeweler's saw to make a few horizontal cuts and break out the pieces with an exacto knife.        So that's it so far. Next up I believe I'll finally tackle the wales! -Chad

16. Adding the Thick Stuff
 
So things have been quite easy now because of the time put in to fair the hull and make sure all the lines were transferred correctly. I decided to go ahead and do all the thick stuff first and fill in the rest once that was all in place. It was real nice to work with something other than boxwood and apple (cherry), too. 
I started by soaking the cut planks for about 20 minutes and then giving them a little bend by clamping both sides over a board with some foam in the middle. The foam keeps it from getting marked up and gives it just enough of a bend to sit a little more naturally against the frames..      Then I gave one side a bit of a beveled edge using a sanding block so that way the other plank touching it would fit nicely. I also sanded the back (the side sitting on the frames) to a bit of a rounded edge so it conformed to the frames. I finished off the front side with some 400 grit sandpaper on the felt block (which is quickly becoming one of my favorite tools) and clamped it down.      The limber strake was alot easier to make than I thought it was going to be. I just set the fence of the tablesaw as close to the blade as possible and raised the blade to just the height of the groove where the limber board site. The limber board was hand made and just took some trial and error to get the right angles. -Chad  The "finished product"..             

15. Making a Story Pole and Transferring Lines.
 
So I decided the next step should be transferring lines to the inside and outside of the hull. It took me a few days to remember reading in one of Russ's older posts about using something called a "Story Pole". It's a vertical "pole" that has all the heights of different spots on the hull. Once the idea kind of came together it seemed like a great idea for making sure everything was going to be even and uniform on both sides. I started by using some scrap from the frame setting jig I used as a base, since I was going to use that jig to hold the model in place while transferring lines. Then I used various drawings to transfer heights to a scrap piece of apple left over from the keel. Put together and squared up to make sure it was exactly vertical, this was the finished product.. 
 

 

 
Next I used some more scrap to make a couple "arms" to beable to get the height right up against the frame to mark it.. 
 

 
Then I made sure the model was secured in the jig and centered the same way I used to mount the frames. This way nothing was wobbling or uneven..
 

 
Transferring lines was then real easy. Move the story pole up to the frame and tick of the height. I just started from the bottom and worked my way around the hull. Once a height was sufficiently marked, I just  moved on to the next height up (unlike in the photo that was taken post-transfer  )      Once I had enough marks, it was just a matter of "connecting the dots". I double checked the height by measuring from a fixed point- say the top of keel- to the mark and then checked the measurement on both the opposite side and opposite end to make sure nothing is going to be either crooked or slanted!      I'll probably cover the lines with a bit of wipe on poly or some other finish just to make sure the lines don't get rubbed off along the way, but the final product should be good enough to finally start adding some meat  to these bones! -Chad    

14a. More Fairing (More Blech.)
 
I just finished the fairing of the hull and I can honestly say I won't miss it. I think the whole process took me quite a while because I really only worked in 10-30 min spurts because 1.) it's an incredibly monotonous and tedious process and 2.) any longer than that and I go from the "quality work" mindset to the "good enough" mindset. After I finished the rough fairing with 100 grit sandpaper I took it all the way down to 600 grit in the places that would be visible. I found that since the finer sandpaper doesn't last very long it didn't work on wooden sanding blocks very well. I took a trip over to the local woodworking store and found a felt pad (about 5 bucks) which worked like a charm. It was just flexible enough to get around the inside and evenly sand the outside..      The "finished" product..       

14. Fairing (Blech.)
 
So far in my short ship modeling career, I think fairing a hull (well) is right up there with planking a hull as one of the tougher things to do. I now know why it's tough to get good advice on how to do it well, since it's just about impossible (as far as I can see, anyway) to explain how to do it well. I just had to jump in and feel it out along the way.  I started with the frames not being roughly faired so that the fore and aft sides of the frame were even, which in hindsight was a mistake since it would have been easier off the keel, but really just adds extra time to the fairing process...      I turned out to be a real pain to sand those areas down, so I decided to start on the floor, since it was flat and would let start getting a feel for what kind of tools were going to work. The first thing I had to do though was determine where the flat part of the floor ended and started curving up, since - once again- nothing was faired first. I did this by taking a copy of the Cross Section Frames drawing and drawing a "centerline" down the middle perpendicular to the frames. Then I took each of the Frame Assembly drawings and measured the length of the floor, copied it onto the "centerline" of my other drawing, and connected the sides with a french curve. Finally I just pasted it to a scrap piece of matte board and cut it out, giving me this...      The floor was pretty easy since it was flat- I found a standard card cabinet scraper worked best. I guess before I go any further I'll mention the tools I found worked best. First and foremost- a $10 pack of 3 cabinet scrapers was a fantastic investment. Of course, with cabinet scrapers they will have to be sharpened- so I also had to pick up a $10 burnishing tool and a waterstone (about $25). Sharpening them is almost an art in itself, as I've gotten sharpening the card scrapers down but the curved ones have taken a little more practice. I looked at about every link on sharpening cabinet scrapers that google brought up, but everyone has their own way of doing it so I just went at it until I found something that worked for me. Other than the scrapers I used a flat ruler sized piece of scrap wood and 4 sanding blocks with 100 grit sandpaper on them. I found the sanding blocks are used the most. All are pretty much just small rectangles with one side curved over that I cut out real quick on the scroll saw. One of them is just a little over the width of a frame, and the others are about a frame and a half thickness. The thicker ones I find usefull for sanding across multiple frames without getting "caught up" between frames, while the thinner one is good for just working on a single frame.      So after the floor, I started on the inside since I thought this would be the harder part (it is) and on the side that would eventually be fully planked. I figured it was best to get a feel for things on the side that would be a little more forgiving since it will all be covered anyway. This is where I can't really explain what went on since it just has to be "experienced". I imagine it like trying to describe to someone how to sculpt- kind of tough to do I would think. I just started rough and kept refining it little by little. This was when I noticed a problem on the horizon- one of the frames seemed out of place at "the turn of the bilge" (thanks Lee). I  thought about it and finally decided one night to break the frame loose and reset it to try to align it. Once it was broken free with an exacto knife I had no clue what to do- that's how I ended up with this gem  ...     ..first I aligned the turn of the bilge area by laying a scrap piece of wood along the frames and wrapping thread around the frame and the scrap, and behind the free frame, which kind of cinched everything into place. Then I used a couple more pieces of scrap to align the tops. Once everything was glued into place, the frames aligned much nicer. After that was done and I had the inside roughly faired, I started from the floors and just started cleaning it all up by working my way up with a scrap pushed down along the inside to see what needed to be cleaned up.      So now I have about 3/4 of the cross section faired with only one of the outsides to go (once I got a hande on the inside, the outside is pretty easy). Although I don't think I'll be able to leave a whole side open as  planned since I still have a few spots that aren't totally faired because I STILL left the frames thin  , a decent section near the bilge will be, which is OK with me. The only disturbing thing I've noticed is separation on some of my futtocks..      I was pretty careful not to have anything like this when I built my frames, so I think it could be from either the little bit of bending that went into setting a few frames on the keel or the cold snap we had a few weeks back when the cross section sat in the garage (since moved inside). There's only a couple spots like this, so I may try filling it with some wood glue/sawdust mix and see what the results are. -Chad    

13. Setting frames
 
Well, I finally finished mounting all the frames to the keel last night and included spacers in between the frames. I turned out to be a little harder than I originally thought it was going to be- but the finished product 
came out real well. Here's how I did it...  First using the jig I previously built, I'd put the frame in the correct position on the keel buy pushing the slide right up to lines on the drawings. The first couple frames I would then glue in place and treenail after, but I found that whle drilling the hole in the frame for the treenail, it would vibrate the frame free. This could have either been that I was using the drill press to drill the hole or that the keel had already been finished with tung oil. So after roughing up the top of the keel, I decided to dry mount the frame and drill the treenail hole freehand using my little battery operated Dremel..      ..I drilled the treenail holes on the floor side since I was terrified that drilling on the other side would cause the frame to split. Once that was done, it was glued and set on the keel with the treenail inserted. Using the cross spall built earlier, I was able to center the frame by matching up centerlines..      Once the frame was set and dried, I ripped a few pieces of scrap that would be used as spacers between frames. There are only two distances between frames- 1/4 inch and 1/8 inch. The next frame was mounted as desribed earlier and the spacer was sanded until it fit snugly between the frames at the keel.      I had drawn a line on the vertical part of the jig where the lower part of the spacer would go. Now I was able to trace the shape where the spacer would be fitted. Since the distance between frames at the keel was measured, the spacers would keep the top of the frames the same distance apart.      Trying to hold the wood straight and in place while trying to trace the shape turned out to not work well, so here's how I tackled it..      After the spacers were cut out on the scroll saw, I had two pieces that wouldn't leave a whole lot of extra to sand later      To set them was easy. I smeared each side with glue, lined them up on the jig, and clamped the frames to keep them tight..      I just repeated for all the frames, and now have them all mounted. The first thing I noticed was how solid everything seems. This will be good for the next step of sanding the hull, which I'm totally terrified of doing.  Onward! -Chad       

10a. A Good Conversation on Aligning the Frames Correctly
 
A very interesting and useful looking jig. How do you ensure that the frames are not skewed to one side? Are you going to set up a grid on the vertical board to ensure that the frames are even about the central axis, or do you have another method of controlling this? 
John -------------------------   John- That's the question that I wrestled with yesterday afternoon and woke up this morning at 530 thinking about. I put a centerline down the middle- which can be seen in the last photo- just to start with. I may try something along the lines of Lee's Le Fleuron build where he has used a string pulled tight down the centerline and spacers across the top of the frames marked in the middle. I can't remember which other build log (sometimes they all just meld together in my head after a while) had a grid also, which is another good idea- unless the grid is off a little. Hopefully I'll have an idea ready to go by tonight.   -Chad   -------------------------   The other builder who uses the wide open string method is an exceptional one, Gary Bishop with his outstanding Alfred build.  Let me give you some hints for this jig, these are not all important here for the x-section, but for a full build they are a must.  Glue something across the back of the angle pieces. Right now they are very good, but after a few times sliding this back/ forth, the jig will start to loosen up a little. Hard to notice until you have a few bad frames  set.  Use some wax on the outer edges of the keel clamping pieces- nothing worse then having this start to bind a little when you have glue on the pieces and need to move a little more quickly.  A string and cross spalls at the top of the frames guarantee the frame is set exactly correct. Glue the cross spall across the top timbers of the frame, lay the frame over the plans and when all lines are covered by the frame, and the keel notch is right on- mark the cross spall.  When setting up the frame, just line up the string and the mark and you know for sure that nothing is wrong and the true shape of the hull can be sanded too- you are not starting out with any dips or places that are too small for the envelope of the frame before you even begin fairing.  Keep up the great work, I love logs like this!  -Lee      

10. Jig making for Setting Frames
 
 Today I was able to put together a jig for aligning and attaching the frames to the keel. This is a pretty vital step so I've been going through various building logs and coming up with ideas of how I was going to do this. Everything kind of came together this morning and here's what I came up with... 
  I started with two half inch thick by five and a half inch wide billets of poplar from Lowes which cost a total of 6 bucks. The first step was cutting a base that would be long enough to hold the keel and have plenty of extra working room- this one was about 1ft long. Next was something to hold the keel in place on the board. I ripped 2 pieces to run the length of the base with a height of a quarter inch, so as not to interfere with the rabbet. One of them was then glued to the base like so..      Next, I took a print of the 'cross section frames' and cut out a section that shows all frames and the keel. This was then cut into two, making sure to cut exactly perpendicular to the frames. I then attached one side of the drawing with 3M spray mount to the base like shown, using a square to make sure the frames will be perpendicular..      Next the other side of the drawing was attached in the same way to the other side. Two things to watch is make sure you have fore and aft facing the same direction on each side and that both sides are aligned correctly. This is what it looks like at this point..      I then put the keel up against the 'rail' and glued the other 'rail' in place (over the frame drawing). The keel fits snugly in place and has no extra movement. With the keel in the correct position, I then glued small stoppers made of scrap on each end to keep the keel from sliding out of place. You can see these in the last few photos..      Next was the vertical board that will align the frames. My goal was to have it contact as much of the frame as possible. I cut a notch in the bottom just wide enough to straddle the 'rails' and just high enough to clear  the keel..      Next came probably the most crucial part- creating the pieces that will keep that board on the correct axis when mounting the frames. After they were cut, I checked and checked and checked again that they were an exact 90 degree angle. The shape is totally arbitrary- it's the angle that counts.      Finally the assembly. Pretty simple from here, but still easy to screw up. I attached the 90 degree pieces to the board tight in against the 'rails' so there isn't any play side to side. It's also imperative to make sure the board lines up exactly against the frame drawing edge and is at an exact 90 degrees up and down.     And that's it. The final product..      

 
A long time ago I bought the fair- a-frame from Model Expo. I think I paid something like 40 bucks for it and what a piece of junk it was. This cost me 6 bucks and is essentially the same thing just alot more accurate and sturdier. Hopefully someone will see this (or the others throughout various build logs) and be saved the frustration of trying to use that god-awful thing.  So next up is the step that probably scares me the most- actually using this. I see attaching frames as the 'no-turning-back point'. I just always have this feeling that I'l get everything attached and remember some vital step that I missed, so I think I'll spend tomorrow making sure I have everything that needs to be done squared away. -Chad

8. Treenail Holes
 
I've gotten all the frames fitted for the keel and keelson now and am starting to work on treenailing. One of the little things that I wanted to make sure I did was have the treenails evenly spaced and not just 'eyeball' it. Just one of those things that can look crummy if done wrong, and I really have no desire to mess it up and cut anymore frames! So I wanted to come up with a template of some kind to correctly drill my treenail holes. This is what I came up with for the floors
  pretty straight forward... It's just a cutout from the plans with the holes measured out...      The template for the heels of the futtocks took a little more brainstorming. I ended up with the following template. It's just a piece of rigid plastic I cut from the packaging of a pack of batteries. I just scribed a straight line down the middle and poked 2 holes an even amount from each side of the scribe. The scribe was placed on the joint on the frames and a mark left where I was to drill...      Overall I was happy with the results....      For the actual treenails, I was planning on using my old faithful bamboo skewers pulled through a drawplate (the Byrnes drawplate is the way to go..), but after alot of tests on old frames with different finishes and and even trying to soak the bamboo in stain, I'm just not liking the look. I ripped some boxwood (lord knows I have TONS of scrap to work with...) and tried a few trials and it looks real nice- very subtle but you know it's there. So now I'm going to attempt boxwood treenails, which won't be easy but it's the look I want so I'll suffer.  Anyway- this is what I have so far. I've also gone ahead and finished my keel (apple), keelson (apple) and false keel (indian laurel) with tung oil. -Chad         

Totally agree about the value of making your own scrapers. I wish I'd done my rabbet like that now I've used a scraper for the waterways.
 
On the tacking down of the templates, I use a water-based glue stick (Pritt stick in the UK) for two reasons:
 
1. It's easy to put on, and so if an edge lifts off it's really easy just to dab at it with the stick.
 
2. It's much easier to remove than the contact adhesive rubber-based glues. All you have to do is paint it over with a brush or dab with a sponge.
 
I also agree about the learning you've done. On my previous and first build I found that on average I had to make something twice over before I'd get it right a third time. There are some people here who've even built a near complete ship only to find it was absolutely necessary to start all over again. If you see it as learning, as you've done, then the pain is very much less!
 
On my Triton build I've had to do quite a bit of insertion of wood pieces to make up for over-rigorous sanding but oddly enough that's a skill I've really enjoyed learning.
 
Looking forward to the recovery stages!
 
Tony
 
Tony

7. Dry Fitting Frames
 
So I now have all the frames cut and together, but they are still rough. I decided I'm going to fair down the frames all together once they are mounted on the keel like it would be done on a full framed model just for a little practice. I don't see this being a problem once the frames are treenailed down and the keelson is in place. I think I will also put spacers in above the wales since both sides will be planked wales up, which will add a little sturdiness. 
  I'm now doing a final fit of all the frames to the keel and cutting the notch for the keelson. I had cut it very roughly- and in hindsight probably could have cut a little tighter- so there's alot of sand a little and check, sand a little and check... . Luckily this can all be done in the house and not in the garage where it's getting a little chilly.  Here's where I'm at..   
 

 
these are the tools I've been using for the keelson. The large file was an impulse buy at Harbor Freight for a dollar that has come in very handy for this. It seems big but for some reason is easier to use.. 
 

 
..So once this is done, I'll be treenailing the frames, finishing the keel and keelson with tung oil, then treenailing the frames to the keel. Onward! -Chad