LJP

I have been gone for several weeks but am back for a few days before I am busy again. Here is my mock-up for the boiler room front panel. I will get started on the real panel in a few weeks. The chains appear to attach to a cross brace and do angle toward the keel, as Cathead had mentioned. I will attach the other boiler room panels first before I start on this panel. Below is what those side panels look like. The colour is not true, they are actually white and gray. The windows are made of cheap plastic packaging material from my junk pile and then scored for the grids. The grids are .25 x .75 mm Evergreen strips. They are secured to the clear plastic with MEK. I will not be able to work on the model for the next month or more. Wisconsin summer is too short and very busy.

Hi Cathead, I agree with you that it is probably attached to a structural post or cross bar. I have several other photos and the brace does angle inward - probably connects to the keel. I am creating a cardboard version of the boiler room door panel and will then take a piece of wire to try and determine where the brace could have started from, both horizontally and vertically. This brace may have been added when the J H Crawford was lengthened 14 feet and renamed Thistle. The original single boiler was replaced by two boilers at that time. Those boilers were also replaced when the single stair replaced the old-style double stair and all the other modifications were made. Photos of Thistle with the double stair obscure these braces - if in fact they were present at that time. I will see where the mock-up takes me but I will never be 100% certain.

Hi Roger, Glad you like the expansion loop on the main steam line. I used insulated electrical wire to simulate the steam line so it was not difficult to replicate. Hi Cathead, thanks for your input. I hope this photo of one of my postcards helps. The red circle in the upper left is the normal hull bracing. I agree, it passes through the main deck towards the front of the boiler room. The bracing that I am confused about is in the red circle on the lower right. The brace passes through a cutout on the boiler room doors and passes through the main deck close to where the stairs start. This seems to be much heavier than the hog chains - almost like a threaded iron rod. It is hard to see in either photo, but there is a turnbuckle just in front of the door. Pure conjecture on my part, but it seems to be connected to something in front of the funnels & breeching. Thanks, LJP

I have added the bulwarks and the mid-deck superstructure. Thistle's bulwark planking was run vertically while the superstructures were run horizontally. The mid-deck structure was an oddity that I have only found on Thistle but I am sure there were others that had them. Since it was open, I suspect it was to provide some shelter from the weather, but the bulwarks had canvas coverings that were dropped down when needed. I will now move on to the boiler enclosure. Again, since this is summer, I am less than dedicated to working on the model. But I am looking forward to making the main stairway. The hog chains that passed through the boiler room doors are a bit of a mystery to me. They are not the prominent hull bracing but seem to be some sort of boiler bracing. You can see where they went through the deck at the bow, but if they had braces to support them like the other hog chains or something else, I have no idea. Bates had something in his Cyclopedium on hog chains and braces, but nothing quite like this. D. C. Mitchell in his book showed similar chains on his drawings but they really went nowhere. This is what they looked like. If anyone has any ideas as to how this was laid out, I would appreciate it. Also note the LeFevre standing figure on the stempost. Another Thistle oddity.

I have really gotten very little done over the past few weeks. During our summer up here I am normally very busy and spend little time modeling. That said, this is the most recent photo. I will now finally begin on the bulwarks and main deck superstructures.

Cathead & John, thanx for the kind words! Bob and Brian, welcome aboard - I hope you enjoy the build! I finally got the stern hog chain braces and chains installed. I started the engine room superstructure and did take some "poetic license" here. I left both ventilators open so the engines can be viewed instead of where the engine ventilator was often closed. On the sliding doors, I had the Z supports on the outside to make things more interesting. Plain panels just seemed too boring. I have also added the main steam line and a return line. These included the connections to/from the engines and other machinery. I quickly discovered that the actual photos of crowded and confusing engine rooms should have warned me for what the model would be like. Placement of items in an even typical engine room is incredibly complex - even where a simplified layout like mine is used. Should I ever decide to do another steamboat, much more planning is needed here to properly place all of the machinery and lines. I will now start working toward the bow. I will place the stationaries and carlines and begin adding Thistle's unusual bulwarks.

I have been busy at the stern. I completed the paddlewheel hogging chains and braces. Thistle had additional supports between the paddlewheel braces while the earlier J H Crawford did not. I still need to add the engine braces and hog chains before I can close this up. I populated the engine room. I affixed the boiler and auxiliary feed pumps and the dynamo. I also added the levers for the variable cut-offs, included the silver bilge pump and the manual red vermillion handled fire pump. I tried to match the red vermillion colours that I found on the internet but could have added even more orange to the red. Lastly, I added the engine pendulums that you could see through Thistle's ventilator doors. These looked to be similar to Rees' or California Cut-Offs but there was not clarity on the two Thistle photos that I found.

I have been busy in the engine room. Newspaper accounts indicate that Thistle had a crew cabin for the deckhands, fireman and engineer in the engine room just like Yukon steamboats. The work area with the gauges &c. follows what Moyie currently has. I used Midwest 1/64 birch plywood for the walls. A couple coats of paint and then I scribed the wood to make it look like individual planks. The engine room still has a long way to go with additional equipment and the overhead piping. I also need to add the stern brace and chains and the steering "rope" before enclosing the engine room and adding the boiler a/k/a saloon a/k/a promenade deck. Local period newspaper accounts referred to the boiler deck as either the promenade or saloon deck - never the boiler deck. I added the stern panel and affixed the sternwheel before I could proceed further. That single stern panel was the height of the main deck (8') and the better part of the promenade deck (7') except the top part of the toilet area will still be added. My next steps will include adding the rest of the paddlewheel braces and hog chains. I will use dry transfer lettering for all of Thistle's nameplates at the end of the build.

I have started on the main deck framing. I used the attached jig and template to be consistent on the frames. In real life, there were 7' tall and most were 7' apart. and this is what it looks like when the unpainted/unfinished frames are loosely attached. I have a white spacing jig right behind the boiler pit. I will remove the frames and get started in the numerous main deck details before I go any further with the framing.

Thanks, John, for your continued support. Mark, Thanks for your comments. I have period specific "colourized" steamboat photos with a red orange that I will try when I get to paint the fire pumps and possibly the pipes. Otherwise, I really have no idea what colour they were. I have preliminarily completed the sternwheel. I need to adjust the shaft length and do paint and other touch-up before it is complete. For the time being, I just laid it on the pillow blocks. The square on the shaft is an eccentric. Bates and others had two different type eccentrics. I went with the type that had an offset circle and a strap. I will attach the rods to them later. A top-down view of the same. After this is finished, I will probably start on the stationaries and the hog braces.

Cathead, I appreciate that you let us know about the presentation. I did find it enjoyable even if it was not as in-depth as I had hoped. I liked the photos and it gave me some more ideas to research. Thanks again! LJP

I would like to give a progress report on the sternwheel. Alan Bates Cyclopedium is an exceptional source that I used in this process. I drafted a copy of the sternwheel for my template. The arms and wood circle are 1/16 basswood, the flange 1/32 basswood and the "iron" circles are Evergreen plastic. I put the template in a clear plastic sleeve and then glued the parts together. It looked like this during the process. One of the three finished wheels ... I may still add in bolts, need to account for the shaft and clean it up. I am getting started on the 16 buckets (planks). I have yet to start the shaft although I had already completed the pillow blocks. I expect to paint it the same oxide red as the main deck. As an aside, I have been researching historic 1890s house paint colours for later use. The original paint chips are the only true period colours that I can find. [ The original grey in the Winneconne Steamboat House is the exception] Ironically, the shipbuilders - Ryan Bros., started their careers in Oshkosh as house builders. So logically, they were exposed to these colours as they built their "ships". I am wondering if I should use a Red Vermillion on the manual hand fire pump and pipes. Comments?

I want to thank Cathead, John, Keith and Roger on your kind words! As mentioned, I have had enuf' of small machinery for a while and am now working on the sternwheel. Roger, I was not aware that the tear shaped air chambers on the feed pumps were also bronze. I will definitely remember this in the future. Thanks for the info. I have also seen examples where the air chambers were cylinders with rounded ends but I thought the tear shaped looked neater.

I have completed the boiler and auxiliary feed pumps. These are also an amalgam of several different sources rather than a reproduction of a single source. I did not do duplex pumps like the Marine Iron Works photos but stayed with the simplex layout on several other photos. I have no idea which type Thistle had as both appear to have been common at that time. I also completed a General Electric Curtis Turbine Generating Set dynamo circa 1908. Thistle had electric added during 1901 maintenance. The other common alternative would have been a piston driven dynamo not unlike the one on the S. S. Moyie. Again, no idea which was actually used. I will add the wiring and conduit pipe later. There are several other hand pumps, levers &c. that need to yet be built. I will hold on these as I want to complete the sternwheel first. Crawford/Thistle had several sternwheels over its life. I will use the 1910 Paul L. photos as a guide as this is closer to the date of the model than say the J. H. Crawford photo from 1894 - 1898. Several other local steamboats referred to "heavy weather" sternwheels. It is possible that Thistle used one of these, as Thistle was known to run backwards, using the sternwheel to break up ice.

I have finally completed the two poppit engines. They are about an inch long each. The left engine is fully open so the arm on the sternwheel will be at 3 or 9 o'clock. The right engine is fully closed so it will be at 6 or 12 o'clock. I used photos from steamboats.com, The Machinery of Western River Steamboats by Colliery Engineer Company (circa 1900), a photo of a Mason engine and Marine Iron Works of Chicago as a guide. The result is an amalgam engine rather than a duplication of any. As Bates noted, the study of engines is a study onto itself. I used Evergreen styrene, Plastruct ABS and some small wire in the construction. Herein lies a tale of why it took so long. Part of the time was simply making something that looked correct in scale and detail. The bigger part was finally finding a glue or solvent to use. The final solvent is Pastruct Plastic Weld which seems to be methyl-ethyl-ketone (MEK). That MEK quickly melts the plastic to create the bond. A little goes a long way and is not forgiving in either time or placement. Before that, I made several models that literally would fall apart. I now have a debris filed littered with those unsuccessful attempts. I am now moving on to the boiler and auxiliary feed pumps. I trust that will not take as long as the engines did.

Hi Jim, Cathead & RevCol! Thanks for your comments. RevCol, there are not enough original paddle wheelers - I hope to see yours soon. I agree paddle wheelers are so neat! I built the boilers by using an appropriate diameter wooden dowel cut to length. Same for the steam dome and the firebox. Wood filler smoothed the connections of the steam domes and fireboxes to the boilers. I am not historically accurate as I did not cover the boilers in asbestos. Both Moyie and photos of local (Oshkosh, Wisconsin) Shattuck Park shipyards showed Scotch boilers covered in asbestos. The breeching is balsa. I made plans first, glued them onto the balsa and cut the breeching out. Ah, the rivets. I tried a few other methods, as built-up glue, and different sizes of pins and nails until I found one close to scale. Ultimately, I used 4 mm copper nails for the rivets. The nails were in a possible box (every possible thing known to mankind) and I have no idea where I acquired them from or when. I used a ponce wheel for the consistent spacing. I drilled holes for every last rivet on the boilers. These were the elements: Not a quick process, but I liked the results. What I have noticed is my modeling abilities are not what they once were but it is what it is. Back to the engines!

I am back from attending to "other duties as assigned". The boilers took much longer than anticipated. I did not have the exact measurements for the two Scotch boilers but comparable Ryan Brothers boats included 4' by 12' boilers, so that is what I used. I used Marine Iron Works of Chicago advertisments as my guide. A scan from my original Catalog 18 follows. My built boilers, located within the hull follow. The white markings on the deck are placements for the upcoming stationairies. The steam lines from the steam drums to the main steam line will be added later. I was not certain how the breeching connected between the two boilers as I was unable to find a photo. Unlike the Western River boilers, Scotch boilers had flues beginning about halfway up the fireboxes. MIWC ads showed the lower part of the breeching was hinged for access. I added the heat shields. I will attempt the engines next.

Thanks Jim! Brian welcome aboard! The Oxide Red turned out much darker than I anticipated. It hides a lot of the hatch details. I added a stained and roughed up rubbing strake. One Thistle photo showed a second, much shorter strake on top of that strake. Since this did not seem common, I omitted the second rubbing strake. I will begin making machinery before I start the structures. I will need the two Scotch marine boilers, boiler and auxiliary feed pumps, two hand pumps. a dynamo and two poppet engines. I will probably do the pitmans and paddle wheel later, although I already have made the pillow blocks. LJP

Hi All, The main deck planking is done, now is time to paint the deck oxide red. The bow still needs two hawse holes for the anchor chains as Thistle had bent arm kedge anchors. I did put a hatch there for access to the suspected chain locker/collision bulkhead. When Thistle had one of its literal run-ins with a rock that punched a hole in its bow, it was noted that the forward compartment filled but water did not reach the coal bunkers. I also need two hog chain holes. In addition to the normal hog chains, Thistle had hog chains that seemed to run from the front of the boilers, through cutouts in the boiler room doors, and then into the hull by the main stairway. Here is the planked main deck. The two oblong metal hatches in front of the boiler pit are the coal chutes, just like on the Paul L. . I also included two main hatches. Lastly, I put a hatch in the engine room, not unlike the S. S. Moyie. These latter three hatches, along with the one for the chain locker, are a best guess on my part as I have no Thistle photos to confirm what and where the hatches actually were.

Hi Kurt, Thanks for the quick heads up on the Badger Anti-Fouling Red Oxide. The colour I have is Model Expo's Hull Red. If you can believe the laptop colours when you Google your Badger or Floquil paints, the Model Expo seems close to your Badger Oxide Red. The Floquil seems a bit more brown but the swatch was very small and came from a colour chart. Your comments on steamboats and barns is really helpful. I have no experience with steamboats but do have lots of Wisconsin experience with barns - having painted my uncles barns red in my very young years. My memories may not be that accurate anymore but I want to say that barn red was not unlike railroad boxcar red. LJP

Hi Roger I really appreciate your comments on determining colours in black and white photos. Like you, whatever is out there seems to point to you cannot determine the colour. I thought that colourized black and white films had some insight but that also is not true. Cathead, Thanks for looking at the photo and helping confirm my thoughts that the decks were covered. From what I read, the canvas was either painted or varnished to ensure longevity. Some referred to sand being added - probably to make the surface less slippery. I had hoped to have completed the main deck by now but it is taking much longer than anticipated. Part of the delay is "other duties as assigned". So I will stay at laying planks for a bit longer before I paint. I thought I would use a hull red but that may be too dark. I will test a sample to see how that looks before I do the whole main deck. LJP

Hi Bob! Never thought of Michigan State colours! My red will not be Bucky Badger Red but a dark oxide red like a hull red so the people in Madison will still not approve. LOL Cathead, Here is the best Paul L. photo postcard that I own for deciding to use canvas on the boiler deck. You can definitely see the deck planks on the main deck, but the boiler deck - especially around the stacks and by the railings - looks just like the covered hurricane deck. The other issue is what colour the boiler and hurricane decks should be. I know the article referred to the "decks", as in plural, being red, but everything I have seen and read seems to point to a grey colour and not red. Again, any input would be greatly appreciated. Hi Keith! Welcome aboard! Hope you find this interesting. I am still working on planking the main deck. I have mocked up some Scotch Marine boilers and finished off the boiler pit, since Thistle's boilers were located within the hull and not on the main deck. I need to make certain the stacks line up through the boiler deck. I have struggled somewhat in portraying the coal in the bunkers but I think I have a reasonable approximation. I do not have the measurements of any of the boilers used in Thistle. Similar Ryan built boats did have two 4' by 12' boilers, so that is what I am using. [The Paul L. had a single 9' diameter boiler that was described as the largest Ryan installed boiler at the time.] In a really odd twist, a boiler from when Thistle was scrapped ended up in an Oshkosh school. There was a real bad newspaper photograph of that boiler when the school was demolished in the 1960s. I would loved to have had a clear and usable photo. The decking will take a few weeks as I attend to family duties.

Over its 21-year lifespan, Thistle had numerous paint schemes. Unfortunately, black and white photos, “colorized” postcards of dubious accuracy and generalizations of “light colors” help little in arriving at accurate paint schemes. Luckily, the May 6, 1907 Oshkosh Daily Northwestern newspaper (via Newspapers.com) presented that: ” decks being colored red, the hull in sea green, the cabins in grey and the rails and stairways in white.” By that time, the hull below the waterline was covered with two coats of boiled linseed oil instead of paint. This will be my paint scheme for Thistle. On how paint was made, according to Donald Jackson in his Voyages of the Steamboat Yellow Stone [Ticknor & Fields, 1985] “Because all paints were mixed on the job by adding various pigments to white lead or linseed oil, the order called for lampblack, bluish-green verdigris (a copper compound), red litharge (a lead compound), yellow ochre, copal and Japan varnishes, and, of course, turpentine in large quantities.” For my model, the sea green that was used is comparable to the sea green used in the pilothouse of S. S. Moyie. The grey will be comparable to the original grey paint on the Steamboat House at Marble Park in Winneconne, Wisconsin. The red will be a darkened red more period specific than the bright reds now seen on current sternwheelers. Boiled linseed oil was used on the hull below the waterline. Interior main deck colors will be white upper and a yellow lower. The yellow will be comparable to the yellow on steamboat relics in the Steamboat Graveyard across from Dawson City. Thistle was described as having between 3 to 3 ½ feet of draft. There is a side profile of Paul L. at the Oshkosh Public Museum site that shows what the bottom and sides of Paul L. looked like. I would expect that Thistle would have looked much the same. Note the photo of the Paul L. was from after the May 1910 capsizing as there are now straight stacks unlike the earlier “Thistle Like” stacks that had rings at the top of the stacks. The link, if you should so desire: Steamboat Paul L. - P1182.119 (pastperfectonline.com) I gave the bottom of Thistle’s hull the historical description of two coats of boiled linseed oil and nothing else. This looks like uncolored varnish. The photo of the Paul L. shows a much darker bottom. By that time Paul L. would have been in service nearly three years and the bottom would have been much dirtier. I suppose that I could have aged Thistle’s bottom to reflect that aging. The sides, the guards and the rudders were spray painted Ocean Green. The underside of the main deck planks over the guards will be this same color. I was not concerned about the overspray as the deck planks will cover this. There are colorized postcards of Thistle that show green bottom or sides that are close to that ocean green. Again, artistic license may have impacted the colors chosen on the postcards. This is what the model looked like after the hull was painted. I was uncertain about the cylinder timbers so I painted them white. There is always a discussion of tarpaper or canvas on decks. The birds eye photos of Thistle and Paul L. provide no clarity as to which was used. There are photos of Yukon steamboats where canvas was being laid. The S. S. Moyie described where canvas would last about five years on the decks, and several layers were present on the decks when the boat was renovated. Canvas was used on Thistle on the main deck above the bulwarks for shading so it was already in use on the boat. “Canvas, painted and sanded” will be used instead of tarpaper. I know that a covering was used on the hurricane deck based upon both Thistle and Paul L. photo postcards. In the capsized Paul L. photo postcards, the main deck was left uncovered. The Paul L. boiler deck seemed to have been covered. The much smaller boiler deck was also covered on Moyie. I would appreciate input from others on whether the boiler deck should have been covered or not. I know most models show this of not being covered so if I were to cover the boiler deck that would be a huge departure from the norm. I am trying to get more photos of the capsized Paul L. to try and provide more clarity. The main deck is next up. This will take some time.

To create the guards, I used the photos from the capsized Paul L. The outrakers were placed at a scale 22 inches on center. I created a jig, which is seen in the bottom center of the photo below, to be consistent in placing the distances. The outside planks (no idea what these were called) were affixed to the underside of the outrakers and the inner rubbing strake. The cylinder timbers had to be added at this point to complete the guards. I always tried to think several steps ahead in order to prevent rework or creating much more difficult processes. I was not always successful in this endeavour. This is a shot of the work in process. This is what the final result looked like. The two balanced rudders replicated what was on the Oshkosh Museum stern photos. This is where I had one of my “should have thought farther ahead” moments. The transom needed have a section removed between the cylinder timbers to accommodate the eventual pitmans. And the transom needed to have a section removed between the rudder stops for the rudder tillers. I chose to have the tillers beneath the main deck. I had seen some sternwheelers that had the tillers on the main deck (which used up a lot of usable deck space) or placed under the boiler deck. In this latter case the rudder post had to extend up between the transom and the false transom. This method affected the main deck if it extended beyond the transom to the false transom. This is a photo of the rudders and rudder stops before: final finishing, being secured, gudgeons & pintels added, or painting. I had also drawn a temporary waterline I now need to paint the hull before starting on the decking and stationaires.

Cathead and John, Thanks for the praise. Just a heads up, I am out and about and will not be able to respond for about another week. Summer is short and family duties are long. Thanks, LJP